I can't cope with night time

[TeainanIV]

I am completely at my wits end with my 8 month old daughter's sleep and I don't know what to do anymore. It's having a huge impact on my mental health, my relationship and my physical health too. She screams all night long and nothing we do seems to change anything. She is an awful sleeper - day or night. She relies completely on us to get her to sleep - whether it's boob, pram, car or being bounced to sleep. She simply cannot get herself to sleep at all. We've tried to teach her to self-settle and it ends up in her hysterical to the point she's making herself sick/choking and spluttering. It is horrendous. If we don't help her, she doesn't sleep!

This has been going on for nearly 4 months now, and it's just steadily gotten worse and worse. She has CMPA and egg allergy which I am free from, and I often wonder if that makes things worse but I thought by now we'd see some improvement in her night time sleep.

We've followed the same bedtime routine since she was born, we have quiet time/nappy free time around 6:30pm, then bath, feed and bed. I've tried to feed her awake with the lights on and then put her down drowsy but she just screams and screams. She will not stop, it's been hours some nights and she's still screaming. If I feed her to sleep she'll wake the minute I put her down - again screaming and screaming. Then the rest of the night she's waking every single hour, sometimes less. She only settles when fed or when lay on me (sometimes her Dad but mainly wants me). The same goes for daytime sleep - naps are never longer than 40mins, usually 30, unless she's asleep on the boob. Even then, she stirs every 20mins or so to latch back on and comfort suck. I can never just put her down for a nap without feeding her or rocking to sleep. Or it's a nap in the pram, and the minute I stop waking she's awake again.

My partner and I can't take much more. She's still in our bedroom because she's that bad at night the thought of being in and out of another room fills me with more dread. But it's having a huge impact on our relationship, we just have no time together in the evenings because she's up and down so often. Plus we're exhausted 😩.

The lack of naps without help means that we struggle to get anything done in our house. It's filthy, because when she's awake she demands all my attention - she won't go in a sling, she won't sit in her high chair, she won't just 'be' without me right there with her!! So nothing gets done.

To top it all off, last week our neighbours complained to us about her night waking as it's also waking them up!! We live in a terrace house so it's impossible not to hear it. So now we're even more anxious about her screaming all night because we know they're up and fuming too!!

Honestly I don't know what I'm after here, I'm not even sure if any of this makes sense. I'm currently sat hiding in the bathroom crying and I can hear her screaming from the bedroom. I just know I can't cope with this much longer. Please someone tell me it gets better!!!

Have you tried co sleeping? Let her sleep while latched on. You may find you all get a lot more sleep this way

Definitely grateful for her being her smiling self in the day

This point is what made the sleep consultant we paid send us to an allergy midwife that’s not what she actually is, I’ll dig her out, I will have time later on today because as cortisol drops allowing melatonin to rise, and therefore induce sleepiness so does it’s anti inflammatory properties so any pain and discomfort in the digestive tract from non IGE allergies increases.

As a side note I’m note vile; I just completely despise the narrative that women need to just put up with this stuff because it’s normal. It isn’t. Nobody, including that baby, wants to be up every hour.

I know you don’t want to give formula but it may solve the pain/discomfort here.

Awh the nostalgia, this is me under a different name. All sorted now 🥲

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_health/4151983-I-m-sinking-deeper-into-a-pit

Did you find initial improvement when you went on a DF/EF diet? Is she a contented baby during the day? Are there triggers in her own diet? (Apologies if you've covered this, I may have missed posts).

I have been there with the CMPI elimination diet and this doesn't necessarily sound normal to me. I knew another mum who eliminated everything and her baby still had major issues, so she eventually had to switch to hypoallergenic formula. It was sad for her but ultimately the right choice. You've done 8 months of BF- would you consider this just to see if it works? The stuff does smell and taste rank, but you can often get them used to it by mixing with EBM to start and slowly changing the concentration until it's all formula. You can also buy these formulas online, they're expending but you don't need a prescription.

I have had two cmpa and soya allergic babies and my eldest was also allergic to egg. We had the sleep problems with my eldest.
The waking and crying was caused by pain so I would try cutting soya out. I noticed a difference within a fortnight.
I did have to supplement with formula but the first dairy free (although they are not dairy free) formula had soya in it and that led to the soya allergy. We also had to put plenty of vanilla essence in so he would drink it.
Second baby reacted really badly to first formula and then had to have the very broken down one but she soon gave up on the top ups.
If your baby has an inflamed gut due to an allergen that needs to go down before you’ll see and improvement in sleep because they are still in pain.
I used to feed ds a pouch of baby food in the night as it was more filling than breast milk.
It’s really hard but once they are not in pain the sleep improves dramatically. The constant desire to feed is for comfort for the pain.
I didn’t find formula particularly helpful but if you replace one feed a night and your partner gives it you will be able to get a slightly longer block of sleep

@converseandjeans she does have allergies - she has CMPA and an egg allergy, I'm also now trialing cutting out soya and I'm a week free from eating that too. We're waiting on an allergy clinic appointment in April as I'm sure she's reacting to something else just not sure what.

Yes she sleeps in a sleep bag.

I'm hesitating with the formula as we need a specialised one because of her milk allergy, but having read others comments on here who's CMPA babies accepted the formula, I'm now tempted to try it

@sjxoxo thank you, crying reading this lovely reply - needed it this morning as last night has been particularly horrendous!

@sjxoxo

I might have missed something but have you given her any formula? Or only breast milk?? If you haven’t given formula ever and are doing all this just for breast milk I definitely would try formula as it might solve all your problems! Xo

Sorry missed this second message, because of her milk allergy I haven't tried formula yet as she needs a specialised one which I've been warned is awful and babies tend to refuse it. But I've read other comments on this thread from CMPA parents who've said it helped so I'm now willing to try it and see!

@CuriousBogInTheNight we have been trying to cosleep - we have all night - but it makes no difference. She wakes constantly, evert 45 ish minutes last night, screaming. She's in pain and discomfort from allergies I'm almost certain of it.

@FTEngineerM thank you for this, this explains so much as to why she screams to the extent she does!! And I know I didn't write the comment you're referring to, but please no I don't think you're vile. You've You've more helpful in this thread the either my GP or dietitian have!! And I'm not bashing them, I think GPs particularly don't really know where to start with babies but my dietitian has given such conflicting advice that I'm completely lost now! I think I'm definitely going to try the formula now

[quote FTEngineerM]Awh the nostalgia, this is me under a different name. All sorted now 🥲

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_health/4151983-I-m-sinking-deeper-into-a-pit[/quote]
This is like reading our own experience, messy house included - ours is horrendous and is making me even more upset. I'm so sorry you had such a tough time, I identify with everything you've written here - it actually made me a little emotional reading it

We did notice some improvement - she would still wake but maybe 3 times a night only and not the same screaming hysterically like we're having now. In the day she is a relatively happy baby - she's very smiley and loves people & other babies - but any time we're due sleep she's a very difficult. She just won't sleep unless bounced/fed/rocked/walked in the pram. And she'll only stay asleep if on us. I should add, she is going through major separation anxiety so she screams bloody murder if I so much as step away from her!

I'm struggling to spot other triggers as at the moment it seems to be the same situation every night! It's been particularly bad for about 3 weeks now - about 10+ wake ups a night and all absolute screaming fits. I think I do need to try the formula, even if it's only at night. I do enjoy breastfeeding but I'm finding it hard now as she wants to be feeding constantly and I'm getting completely touched out

@tothemoonandbackbuses thank you for this, it's really interesting to hear other experiences. I'm certain her gut is inflamed - last night she was screaming every 45mins and had awful bouts of wind. I actually have just remembered that about 4 weeks ago she had a bit of egg yolk as a challenge, the next day she had what was like a stomach virus. Constant mucusy poo all day - I think it was gastroenteritis brought on by the egg. Since then her poos have been awful, and her sleep has deteriorated even more. I'm not sure how to help heal that though!? I'm literally just made that connection now after reading your comment!

Here is what seems to me to be the truth.
This baby has allergies.

Breastmilk is not best for her. It is causing her great discomfort.

You absolutely should try a proper hypo allergenic formula for her.

Insist on it from the GP. I am fairly certain you will be able to get her to drink it.

I had a baby with cmpa. Cutting out milk isn't enough, you need to be strict and cut out soy too. If you haven't then her gut is inflamed, like others have said.

None of this is your fault at all though, I think you have been badly advised by those around you who insist that for all babies breastfeeding is the best option.

For yours, I strongly suspect it's not. And you should definitely try a hypo allergenic formula. She shouldn't react to anything in it as it is by it's very nature for babies with serious allergies.

Please try it. I am confident it will solve many of these issues. She probably won't sleep through the night straight away but it's realistic to expect some self soothing from 8 months and also realistic to expect her to sleep for at least a few hours at a time. Anyone who tells you otherwise is being a martyr.

It does not need to be like this and it's clearly having a huge impact on you all.

@TeainanIV soya took about a fortnight. I first realised because he was worse after I’d had a Chinese takeaway (vege so lots of tofu too).
The beef thing, yes I have heard that from other mums.

You’re doing the best you can with the information you had at the time, that’s all any of us can do. It is so obvious you want the best for her. But you do need to look after you too.
Can you get some sleep today? Take a 4hr chunk if you can. Life looks better on the other side of sleep!

I’m not a formula basher, we had to mix feed due my health, but breast milk (even with allergens in) has so many gut benefits re- healing.
If you do change over/try some insist on fully hydrolysed or amino acid formula. Have a look on CMPA group to work out the most broken down/hypoallergenic one these days.

I feel for you so much, it’s so so hard seeing your baby in pain and not being able to help. I found Mumsnet a huge support those years ago, and I hope you do too

@GraciousPiglet yes she definitely has allergies - CMPA & egg confirmed, since Nov last year. I'm now also soya free too (a week in to this)! Im convinced she has others too, we've an appointment in April for allergy tests which I'm praying give us more clarity.

You're right, I feel let down by the conflicting information we've had, especially as a FTM this is all so new to me. I think I need to try the formula and see how we go, gutted as I do enjoy breastfeeding

And gut healing, I’d really give the probiotics a go. The Europeans are far ahead of us with research (for adults and babies) and they are commonly used/recommended.
Biogaia drops is what we used until toddlerhood.
They won’t be the solution alone though.

@SalamiToastie thank you! All these lovely messages are making me weepy, I'm completely burnt out. She's currently fast asleep on me because I've no doubts she's just as knackered as we are!! I had been told the same about breastmilk helping their gut, which was why I was so keen to stick with it and just eliminate my own diet as well as hers. It's only been a week soya free so I'm going to try and stick with it still. I'll do some research on the best formulas - a work colleague of mine has two CMPA babies and got the best CMPA formula aft her son refused the rest, she's offered me some to take to try my DD on and see if she accepts it. Fingers crossed!!

@SalamiToastie

And gut healing, I’d really give the probiotics a go. The Europeans are far ahead of us with research (for adults and babies) and they are commonly used/recommended. Biogaia drops is what we used until toddlerhood. They won’t be the solution alone though.

I'll have a look in to these, thank you!

You’ve got a plan, that’s half the battle. See what happens with the formula.

I met someone through a breastfeeding group who was basically eating lamb, rice, carrots and that was it. Baby with a list of allergens as long as your arm.
Everyone makes their own choices, but remember that your physical and mental health matters too.

@SalamiToastie that is very impressive, I don't think I could do that - I find it hard enough now being just dairy, egg and soya free! It amazes me these allergies, no clue where they've come from as neither me or her Dad have any allergies in the family. Yes, hopefully things will get better over the coming weeks! Thanks for all your advice xx

Mine was like this. People were so rude and smug about it - like we weren’t trying absolutely EVERYTHING we could to sleep train him. I felt like we were being blamed when really some babies are just like that. We honestly couldn’t have done more to try to solve the problem.

Cranial osteopathy helped a bit so that may be worth a try. He went from not being able to sleep in the cot at all (we’d put him down asleep and he’d be awake and screaming within minutes. And absolutely no chance of putting him down awake or he’d scream until he vomited) to us being able to put him in the cot asleep and he’d sleep for 2-3 hours at a time overnight and wake 3 times. That will sound awful to anyone who has a baby who sleeps but it was a big improvement for us because he literally did not sleep unless he was on us or in a car seat.

Other than that, he just grew out of it eventually. I’d say by 18 months he was only waking twice a night, then by 2 it was once a night, then he hit 3 and suddenly started sleeping through. I think he was self settling in the cot by 18 months. I seem to remember we worked out that giving him a bottle to take to bed with him helped him to drop off, then we’d take it away once he was asleep.

Not sure if any of that will help. But sending much solidarity all the same. He’s now 13 and sleeps for England and has done since he was 3. I am still scarred by all the sleep that I missed though. It was exhausting.

Great news you’ve got a plan.
It’s so hard, especially when you’re right there in the no sleep zone, but if it helps reading that thread back I can barely remember half of it now.

Hope you both get some rest soon!

teainaniv

We're waiting on an allergy clinic appointment in April as I'm sure she's reacting to something else just not sure what

That's quite a while away to wait and see if you need to cut anything out.

You need to try the special formula ASAP. I also think you've been convinced breast is best. Go to GP ASAP and ask for prescription of formula. I don't really understand why a health visitor would try to put you off doing this.

Why did you try egg yolk as a challenge when you know she's allergic?

@converseandjeans I have no problem with formula, I was only hesitant because I'd been told over and over by HV, GP and dietitian that she would likely hate it and to be honest we've enough battles with her sleep as is - I didn't want to then take away breastfeeding from her as often it's the only thing that comforts her! However since hearing other CMPA parents experiences with the formula on this thread I'm now going to try it.

We've really been let down by the dietitian it would seem - they advised we challenge the egg and suggested the yolk baked in something as it's less reactive than the white? As I mentioned in an earlier comment (not sure who in reply to) but this is all completely new to me so naively I did it. Now really regretting it and wishing I hadn't!! The same dietitian also advised me to start eating dairy again!! Well, I did for two days - just milk in my tea - and straight away I could see it was effecting her through her nappies!

Feeling deflated when it comes to all of this as just seems like we can't get on top of it and it's my little girl who's suffering.