I’m prepared to be told I’m a terrible mother but please hear me out.

[stillreallytired]

My 5 month old has had one half hour sleep between 1045 this morning and now.

He is screaming with exhaustion, and I’ve been sobbing as well.

I really need advice but it does need to be actual advice I can use. So:

The sling is a no go.

He will sleep in the pram but I don’t want to be overly reliant on this.

He will feed to sleep sometimes. But the problem is if he doesn’t I then have to wait until he’s hungry enough to accept another bottle.

Dummies don’t work as he spits them out or knocks them out of his mouth.

So - I’ve no idea but I am desperate.

@stillreallytired I found huckleberry’s wake windows were too short! Recommend precious little sleep - they’re a great resource

In the kindest way -could you have post natal depression...

Please don't worry about the long term implications of being reliant on the pram. I was and I drove myself mad trying to find other solutions because I was anxious about nursery - my son sleeps like a log at nursery because peer pressure is a wonderful thing! However, he still naps in the buggy at home. If you're worried about the mud, you could get an "indoor pram" to have as well as an outdoor pram for when the weather is better? Mine also used to hate the sling - loved being worn once he could face out and see everything though! I'm sorry because I know you don't want to hear the pram being recommended- I just want you to know that it will get better and please don't feel like a failure or blame yourself. I used to have those thoughts and then I watched an episode of the Baby Club on CBeebies and there were babies that nodded off in the middle of playing - that's when I realised that they're all different and some are sleepier than others! I used to have to walk around for miles but now he gets popped in the buggy, shushed and I have a cup of tea in the living room. It will improve!

Do you have a friend who could come to see you/talk to you over the phone

Amby nature's nest hammock. Babies kind of bounce and self soothe in them. Pioneered in prem baby units as being right shape for emulating womb etc.
My DCs slept in theirs for years both at night and for naps. Double as travel cots. Had no other beds. Worth a try?

Also- not just bouncy chairs but vibrating buzzy bouncy chairs. Jack up the vibration until their double chins wobble. Again my two couldn't defy sleep however much they tried.

Buy one on amazon prime and see if it comes tomorrow. If it doesn't work you can send it back at least in all prob.

I do evie but there isn’t any help so that’s that really.

You're not a terrible mother. You sound like a tired one though. It's easy said I know but don't worry about future sleeps at nursery etc. You sound a bit like I felt when my children were very small. Forgive me if I'm wrong. But as a person I'm a hugely 'what if..' kind of thinker who tried to be prepared for everything and birth hormones and sleep deprivation make me very highly strung and anxious. I'm not saying you are, but I was at your point in life. Very worried about doing everything right. But neglect aside there's not really a right. The only thing that matters is what's right for your family.

I work in a nursery and have been able to get 6 toddlers to sleep single handledly. But I still worried when my exclusively breastfed to sleep youngest started there. God the months of stressing. Needlessly, because she found her own way when supported by others. And some nurseries will settle children to sleep in a pram and rock them. That's how they managed mine! There was no way in hell she was going to casually drop off to sleep! To be honest, most don't.

It will be alright.

It’s 27 years since my oldest was a baby and I can still vividly remember the desperation, the exhaustion, the misery as though it were yesterday.

He didn’t sleep for more than a couple of hours until he was four and started school. Day or night.

I tried, I failed and in the end I gave up. I slept with him next to me, I went to bed at 5pm. I took him for drives in the car or rides in the pram. I stuck him in a baby Walker in front of teletubbies. I gave him a dummy. Anything that worked for ten minutes.

He’s a lovely, generous, loving, well adjusted, educated young man. As long as there is love, it will be fine.

Honest.

@stillreallytired

I’m trying hamburger but everyone is just fixating on the pram.

I guess that’s it then. He will only sleep in the pram outside.he’s going to nursery soon where that won’t happen, so he’ll be overtired and exhausted all the time and I’ve done that

All day I kept thinking he’d give in and sleep, he just can’t. So I don’t know what I can or should do. That’s why I’m reach out out here even though I knew I’d get abuse. I think it’s what I deserve.

I am shit at this and should never have done it.

And don’t remove this post please MN. I want it to stay. I want to have it here just how shit I am.

OP in the kindest possible way.. have you spoken to the GP or HV about your MH? You are not shit, and everything here makes me really concerned for you.

Don't worry about him at nursery - nursery staff are witches who magically get babies to sleep, even the most epic of sleep refusers!

Look, he won’t sleep in the pram indoors, I sometimes think he has a pigeons instincts as he wakes up the second I’m at the front door. I wish I was joking!

OP it's not you. You've just had a shit day with a difficult baby.

Please bear in mind that some babies just don't like to nap and will fight all the way. My DS was always a nightmare to get down for a nap, and when I did manage it he was foul when he woke up - as if I'd cheated him to sleep. I realised after a while he need less naps that was 'normal'.

I knew it wasn't me because he was my second child. My first born DD napped like a dream, whenever and wherever and woke up giggly and happy.

You will work out what works for you and your baby over time. What worked with my DS was repetitive lullaby type music, and absolute darkness whilst I sat in the rocking chair holding him, rhythmically rubbing his back in circular motions. Then as soon he yawned and closed his eyes, placing gently down into the cot. Backing out of the room and going for a few minutes kip myself.

Best of British luck to you x

Just go with what works for now. Get some ear phones and listen to music when youre walking baby in the pram and try to enjoy it.

The car was the only solution for a few months when my DS was small. I then lifted him into bed. I did try other options but they were futile and I want an easy life.

What’s he doing now? If you can’t get him to sleep then rather than keeping trying can you just give yourselves a break from it? Sing him some songs or read him a story, or if he’s not crying then leave him with some toys and try again after 30 mins.

I get that you don’t want to use the pram in your living room but do you not have a hallway or kitchen you could just rock it back abs forth in? I second the earphones recommendation. I’d put him in the pram in the hall and put a podcast on if I were you. My son only napped in the pram til he stopped his naps at 3. He also liked the fresh air but would still eventually nod off in the house if we were persistent so don’t rule it out unless you’ve tried it.

I don't get the point of posting another thread where people are going to give the same advice as on your other one?

Everyone with a young baby has tough days and it will get better but right now just do whatever keeps the baby happy - if the baby will sleep in the pram, like PP have suggested roll back and forth on the spot - if it's the "fresh air" that helps, crack open the windows.

If all else fails just give in and play/chat with baby instead of forcing sleep which will stress the both of you out?

Will baby sleep if you sleep? I often find when all else fails if I pretend to be sleeping (eyes closed slow breathing) and ignore chitter chatter, eventually DD will fall asleep.

Lots of useful advise has been provided to you OP, not sure what you're expecting people to suggest to help you or do you just want to have a moan?

@friskybivalves

Amby nature's nest hammock. Babies kind of bounce and self soothe in them. Pioneered in prem baby units as being right shape for emulating womb etc. My DCs slept in theirs for years both at night and for naps. Double as travel cots. Had no other beds. Worth a try?

Also- not just bouncy chairs but vibrating buzzy bouncy chairs. Jack up the vibration until their double chins wobble. Again my two couldn't defy sleep however much they tried.

Buy one on amazon prime and see if it comes tomorrow. If it doesn't work you can send it back at least in all prob.

DD had a mix of cosleeping and amby nest.

How did you manage to use it for years? DD could climb out of hers by 9 months!

Didn’t think you could get them anymore. Our 2 are in the loft!

Reach out to someone in real life for support. You need a friend/family member to give you a hug and a chat to gp who will be able to help

OP I hope you don't find mind me sharing this with you, but I just wanted you to see what my baby's sleep looked like when he was 5.5 months old. I use Huckleberry too, I just didn't see the wake timings a good fit for him so we found our own pattern (you can actually adjust the wake times and whether your little one is a cat napper etc on the app).

It is obvious you are sleep deprived but please calm down as you’re just getting yourself worked up more.

My DD would only sleep in the park so I had to go out in rain just for my sanity. It’s not a permanent solution but luckily her only sleeping in the pram was just a phase.

As you can’t go outside - have you thought about getting a cot or similar that rocks itself (a bit like a pram movement), or giving him a warm bath, or even music?
You are just going to have to try different things and see what works there’s no magic answer unfortunately.

You poor things x my little ones used to get like this, totally wound up and wired and not able to sleep even though exhausted .. Looking back I was also so stressed out about it and frustrated ai probably made it worse (not saying you do this, pretty sure i had post natal anxiety.. ) A couple of things that worked for me and him were:

Really really loud white noise, on phone quite near his head while rocking him in a dark room after a feed

Feeding and then lying down on bed together rubbing/ firming patting him and shushing him loudly or again, using white noise

I know you say he doesn’t like sling but this was a game changer for us as he was often so overstimulated and wired that the carrier helped to keep him tightly close, pat and rock, bounce, sway , jiggle - add white noise and even though mine would fight it initially and cry, the look of utter contentment and surrender just before he fell asleep was quite funny. Mine initially didn’t enjoy carrier but a friend with a nap and sleep fighter encouraged me (forced me!) to keep trying as it was best thing for little ones that struggle.

Take a bath together, keep lights low and get everything ready for bed / sleep afterwards

Use a birthing ball to bounce him to sleep

Side to side rocking and, white noise! and ticking and stroking his nose , eye lids (sometimes he dropped off and other times he hated it..!

Get a cup of tea, find something to watch on tv, curl up with him and ignore him as much as possible in the hope he will just drop off.. (worked quite well if he was exhausted..)

Accept that some days he is going to have crap sleep, try (so so hard i know and i found it almost impossible..) to accept it and think tomorrow in another day and hopefully his night sleep will re set him.

Stay strong and hope you have a good night xxx

My 14 week old has just gone to bed having been awake since 3 too OP. Usually manages a nap in the sling while I do older DC's tea around 5ish but he wasn't feeling it today apparently. Am I a failure?!

No. We're both doing great. Babies can just be trolls sometimes.

Glad he's finally settled and I hope you have a good night & a better day tomorrow

One of mine was like this. I called a sleep consultant in sheer desperation. She set out a strict routine that involved waking the baby at 6am, putting for a nap two hours later and so on and the crying it out method.

It was very hard work emotionally and physically. Gina Ford has a similar routine but it’s tempting to just let them sleep when they are sleeping..., it did get better with the routine - eventually!

The thing is if you are putting your baby into childcare soon, they will implement their own routine so if it was me, I’d just get through the days now and let the childcare provider take care of it.

Also should add, please don't fret about Nursery they're a completely different environment and I've always found my boys sleep completely different at nursery than they do at home - I believe that rings very true for most babies. My boys have always managed much longer naps at nursery, even my cat napper somehow gets a 1.5 hour sleep in there

Hi OP - your exhaustion is clear and all I can add is - will he sleep when cuddled up to you? Will he sleep if you both go and lie down on a double bed (on top of duvets) and in a safe co-sleeping way? My DS was not a sleeper and would go longer than 4 hours without a nap unless he was curled up on / next to me or being pushed in the pram.

When he was about 5 months we put him in the baby bjorn bouncer (the one that only moves if they power it themselves) and this would some tire him out so much he would fall asleep in it 10-15 mins. When he was a bit older I invested in a playpen and he would tire himself out walking around the playpen holding on with one hand (at 9 months) then fall asleep. The sling didn't work, putting him in the cot didn't work.

Lots of parents didn't have the issues I had - no one gets it unless you have one of those children. My son was skinny from the word go because he was always moving - the GP commented one day that he was an extremely alert baby. It hasn't changed ... he sleeps a lot less than his peers even now.

And FWIW he did sleep for a short period at nursery - he would be so exhausted with the comings and goings he would get a 20 min nap most days

You are fixating on a sleep/wake pattern that is not tailored to your baby.
He is not a robot. He doesn’t know he’s suppose to sleep now because a book has said so.

It is not going to kill him to be awake for more than 4hours at a time.

You need to talk to someone in real life. For both your sakes.