I’m prepared to be told I’m a terrible mother but please hear me out.

[stillreallytired]

My 5 month old has had one half hour sleep between 1045 this morning and now.

He is screaming with exhaustion, and I’ve been sobbing as well.

I really need advice but it does need to be actual advice I can use. So:

The sling is a no go.

He will sleep in the pram but I don’t want to be overly reliant on this.

He will feed to sleep sometimes. But the problem is if he doesn’t I then have to wait until he’s hungry enough to accept another bottle.

Dummies don’t work as he spits them out or knocks them out of his mouth.

So - I’ve no idea but I am desperate.

@Findahouse21

No idea if you're still reading but by 6 months my daughter had 1 long nap per day. Yes it meant she had long wake windows but it totally worked for us. I kept her awake until midday then got Hr to sleep then. She either had 2/3 shitty little naps that I had to force or one long decent one, and she's been on that routine for a year and is fine. It took about 3 days to sort her out,

I posted above about my DS who was similar, just need the naps I was used to my older DD needing and became irritable if 'forced' to nap.

Throw your book out OP, and find a routine that works for you and your baby. Th th the EASY method, Eat, Activity, Sleep, time to Yourself but in longer cycles, maybe 2 rather than 3 per day.

Hi OP. You are not a shit mum. Or if you are, I am too. My almost 6 month old only sleeps in the pram during the day, won't take a dummy and hates the sling.

I have had plenty of days where she has slept less than you describe. And some days will just cry a lot. I am currently blaming teething, even though her teeth aren't coming through.

It sounds like you are bottle feeding? If you mix feed at all, I find boob helps the most.. even if I then am basically trapped. She also quite likes the "tiger in the woods" hold. Sometimes bouncy chair, with me on the floor with her gently rocking, maybe a finger in her mouth and some white noise can help soothe her.

Good luck OP. You are doing well - there are lots of us out here going through something similar. xx

@DarcyLewis

Do you have anywhere in your house that you can put the pram up and rock or bounce it? You don't always need to go out.

This is a more long term solution that a quick fix but I would:

• get him in to a routine. Wake him up at the same time every day eg 7am and get him back down for his first nap within 90 minutes of awake time.

If you need to take him for a walk or rock the pram in the house to do this, then do it. Aim for around an hour, again maybe walking or rocking to achieve this. Introduce lots of sleep cues - white noise or relaxing music, dummy, muslin or comforter and use these to cue every nap. Next nap around lunch time after no more then 2 hours awake, aim for an hour + Another shorter nap around 4/4.30pm, maybe 30-45 minutes. Around 15 minutes before each nap start winding down, baby massage, turn lights low, gentle music, snuggle with dummy/comforters.

• once your baby has a good nap routine and isn't overtired, start working on getting them to sleep without the pram/movement.

Now instead of doing your wind down routine and into the pram, you can do the wind down at nap time and into the cot. Shush and pat your baby in the cot, pick up only if he gets upset and then put him down again. Have all those sleep cues - music/white noise, comforters etc.

• once you can get your baby to sleep with shushing and patting in the cot, you can gradually reduce the amount of helping you are doing until they can get themselves to sleep.

This is really excellent advice, and what I would suggest. Not a magic fix (but obviously that doesn’t exist), but doing exactly this turned my nap refuser into a nap queen.

Also if the pram works but you can’t get out then you could try a rockit- it vibrates the pram for you. I used to take my DD out in the pram whatever the weather to fall asleep and then if it was bad or I’d had enough of walking I’d bring her back and leave her in the hall with the rockit vibrating the pram.

@stillreallytired are you on?
I have seen your previous thread was deleted and you have also posted about things tipping you over the edge.
sleep deprivation can be very stressful with a young baby who won’t sleep. Is baby crying a lot? If so please look at this iconcope.org/parentsadvice/
What support do you have at home?
Have you contacted your HV yet? They are there to help not criticise

Try rubbing his forehead gently in circular motions. You also need to try and stay calm. I can feel the frustration jumping out of the screen. It's just a bad day that's all.

Other people have also said that some babies just don’t need as much sleep as others, and this is so so true. If I could go back and tell myself anything when my DD was six months it would have been to switch to two naps. I killed myself thinking she had to have three naps and she really didn’t. It also made her night sleep awful. She then dropped to one nap at ten months. That’s not to say that your baby isn’t tired, you know that he is, but maybe just try and do a nap whenever he seems like he needs one? He might have longer wake windows than is “normal”.

@fruitsaladyummyummy

huckleberry app. LIFE SAVER.

I know you mean well but this app appears to be the problem. The baby is having naps, just not naps the app says, hence OP being a tad upset. Any kind of app that makes a mother feel like a failure needs deleted.

OP honestly you're not failing and your parenting is not terrible. He doesn't feel insecure with you, you're his mum and his world. It can be so hard on babies, they have all that crazy developmental shit going on, but you're there for him and doing your best. I've been there and it's fucking awful so you have my sympathies.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already or if you already know of it but I found the wonder weeks app useful - he may be in a developmental leap just now and that could be part of why he's having such a hard time settling just now. It doesn't really help the sleeping issue but I found that being reminded that what's going on with my baby isn't necessary a direct result of what I'm doing helped get through the really tough periods.

If he'll sleep in the pram that's your answer! Take anything that works. Take him out for a walk, pram+fresh air will do wonders for you both. Then let him sleep while you catch a much needed nap. And keep reminding yourself that it is just a phase. It will be just fine xx

flashy stop it.

You’ve got completely the wrong impression and you just keep on and it’s really stressful.

His wake windows are normally about 2 hours 20 to 2 hours 30. I am not some sort of obsessive person who panics if we go five minutes over. But today was way too little and that was evidenced by heart rendering sobbing, gulping, gasping. It has really, really upset me and you repeatedly banging on and insisting he doesn’t need more than a half hour sleep in eight hours is not helpful at all.

Yes, I do have PND. I do not want to talk about it with anybody though. My main issue is taking it personally when my baby screams.

Beyond the first few weeks I don't think either of mine had more than 2 naps a day. They both were on one nap a day at 6 months and dropped completely at 18. One didn't sleep at night either. Some just don't need that much sleep.

My advice would be try a nap when you think it's time. If he cries for a while, stop trying. Go and do something with him - sing, look at a book, play with some toys, play with Walter, give him a feed - then try again in half an hour. And then repeat.

Yeah that would be slightly more helpful if there weren’t 50 mph winds predicted today latte

I’ve been doing that all day. He is hysterically tired. Why does no one listen? This is the thing, people say to open up and not to be afraid to talk. But no one bothers to listen.

you repeatedly banging on and insisting he doesn’t need more than a half hour sleep in eight hours is not helpful at all.

Not once did I say that.

It's not the first time you have tried to out words in my mouth though

Also if you can afford it I would pay to have a nanny or nursery for a few half days a week.

Ignore the weather . Waterproof cover and cosy underneath. The sound of the rain might be therapeutic for you both.

Have u answered the question about getting help? Dh? Mum? Friend?

Sorry if I’ve missed it I just think it’s a hugely important point - you are not a bad mum

Please will you stop latte

I don’t really want help. I just want to help my baby.

Also the point about nursery - they may well use a pram to get him to sleep. The nursery I'm sending DS to have said they will use a pram to settle him

Also yes to having a 10 minute break away if someone can take him. Sometimes DH will take a 10 minute break from work to hold him and I'll have a little cry and get it out of my system.

@stillreallytired

I’ve been doing that all day. He is hysterically tired. Why does no one listen? This is the thing, people say to open up and not to be afraid to talk. But no one bothers to listen.

People were listening. People offered many many tips and gave advice. You have dismissed everything. You have refused to answer questions from posters trying to find out more so they can tailor there advice to your situation.

You are defensive and saying you feel like a failure. People are saying you are not and explaining why you are not and you are arguing g back with that too.

Calm down and engage instead of being dismissive and rude and maybe you will find what you are looking for from the thread

I'm sorry things are tough but getting nippy with people trying to help you, even when that is pointing out the obvious, isn't helpful

@stillreallytired please reach out and get professional help. Not on MN.

No one's being critical, they're just trying to give you some advice🥴

@stillreallytired

Please will you stop latte

I don’t really want help. I just want to help my baby.

Have you tried baby massage, a bath, cuddling up in your bed? Sorry I know these have been Suggested before but you don't seem to be answering. Do you have a partner or some help?

I think you need to try taking it back to basics. He will pick up on any stress from you. Get yourself some snacks and drinks and a box set on the TV and curl up in bed with him. Low noise levels and dim the lights. Try some skin to skin. Just hold him close to you and hopefully that will send him off. Fingers crossed you get some rest for him soon!

You say that he usually has wake windows of 2hrs 20ish. So he usually naps quite well then? This is just a bad day? Obviously all (or at least most) babies have bad days where they don’t sleep and are unsettled and crying. That is just life with a baby. I have spent many hours walking around in circles with a baby in a sling whilst they cried.
Are you getting support for your PND? Medication?