4 month sleep regression support group

[crazychemist]

Hi All,

Anyone want to join me for mutual handholding through 4 month sleep regression?

I’ve got twin boys, and am finding it quite tough at the moment. Long naps are completely a thing of the past, 45 mins tops. Waking every 2 hours at night. Classic 4 month sleep regression stuff.

I’m doing my best to get the majority of naps in their (our) room with swaddle, white noise, as dark as I can get it. They aren’t really self settling at the moment - I’ve been giving them a dummy because otherwise they disturb each other before they nod off. They also have a feed very close to going to sleep to get them nice and drowsy, but there’s at least a 5 minute gap between feed and sleep except at bedtime (which is mayhem due to overtiredness).

How are you finding it? What have you tried so far?

Hi everyone 👋🏼 I share your sense of despair @TangBloodyFastic - you are not alone! Things are still tricky over here. We had a few nights of one or two 2-hour blocks which was a massive improvement on being up every hour, and we had a couple of longer daytime naps too, but we’re back to very busy nights and I’m finding she won’t now stay asleep when I put her back down after feeding. There was one night at 5am where I gave up and just left her and I think she went back to sleep but I’ve no idea how to replicate those conditions - normally she cries out very quickly. I think we need to start working on the nighttime routine but I can’t see how I’ll get her to feed enough without going to sleep. I’ve also started to worry a bit about milk supply - like, maybe she’s up so much in the night to try to boost it...? I don’t know. Feeling a bit hopeless. And tired!

@BerthaYoung sounds exhausting. I hope you get another 2 hour block soon, it's amazing how such a small duration of sleep means so much to us now. We are also mainly having hourly wake ups still but last night got a 2 hour 40 minute block which I couldn't believe. Like you, I've had concerns about supply due to reduced feeding. I read an article about Reverse Cycling on Kelly Mom (I think you linked me to the 4mo sleep regression article). Anyway, I'm aiming to do daytime feeds in the bedroom where it is quiet and no distraction to see whether this will encourage more milk intake and potentially reduce night wakes as he's definitely having most of his milk during the night at the moment and pulls himself off breast constantly during the day to look around.

@JJxo Hooray, 2 hours 40! What a treat! Genuinely...! Feeding in the bedroom is a good idea, I think I’ll try that. Are you working with any kind of schedule? I’ve just been offering often, which means she does 2-3 minutes every hour and a half. I’ve been wondering whether to try to push it to every three hours or so to get her hungrier.

Thinking of you all tonight. Strength to us all!

@BerthaYoung
I read somewhere if your LO wakes for a feed but only takes a teeny amount before falling asleep then they're not waking because they're hungry.
I wish I could follow my own advice.
I feel like DD nurses constantly overnight in dribs and drabs
I'm so tired I just let her nurse herself and I think I've created a huge problem for myself
She's now in the habit of comforting on me to sleep and is searching for me when she wakes up. I just want to sleep so I give in to her habit.
Today I've woken in a bit of a panic about it all wondering how the hell am I going to sort this now 😔

My problem is I could spend 15 mins trying to get her back to sleep for her only to sleep 45 mins and then the cycle starts again. Do I just have to ride it out until she can stay asleep herself? (Which she has never done!!)
I've just googled (big mistake) and it says babies of 4 months should be able to go overnight without a night feed.
I feel so disheartened

Can I join please?.DD is 5 months and I cant remember the last time I got 2 hours, in fact its usually 1. I'm so tired. I go to bed with her and I just have no life at all!

I have a toddler so she has been sleeping on me in the sling and really worried that I've ruined any hope of self settling anytime soon.

So frustrated. Trying to balance keeping her rested and engaging with my toddler, it's the most stressful bit of having 2.

@TangBloodyFastic the bit about a 4 month old going the whole night without a feed is simply not true. Every baby is different and although you should aim to feed them their daily calories in the day, it's very normal to feed at night.

My DS started sleeping through the night before the regression and stopped night feeds. However if I feel that he needs a feed to settle back to sleep I will feed him, as you never know they might be hungry.

Hello, I'm so glad I found this group! Glad I'm not the only one being driven to despair by the dreaded regression!! We're into week 3 and it's so tough!! At 3 mths my baby was only waking once to feed during the night and easily did a first stretch of 5-6hrs before waking. Since he turned 4 mths he's been waking 5/6 times a night. When he wakes he's pretty inconsolable unless fed and/rocked back to sleep. Last night he woke every 40mins or so
Also he's always taken short naps (30 mins max) but now it's a full on fight to get him to go down for a nap, he cries loudly and wriggles as though he's really fighting sleep. It can take 10-15 mins or longer to get him to settle & fall asleep while rocking him with white noise on. Then it's a delicate operation to get him into his cot without him waking up.
Has anyone else noticed this behaviour with naps during a regression? I worry he's not getting enough rest during the day but he wakes like clockwork after 30 mins and despite my best efforts the naps won't lengthen and now with such disrupted nights I'm worrying he's going to be shattered.
Good luck to everyone for the long night ahead, here's hoping this phase passes soon!

@spendingagain mine was a resolute 35 min napper, every nap, until about a month ago (and she only naps in the pram or on me, so that was with assistance). From about a month ago (5 months) she gradually started to do a longer nap every now and then, and then a longer nap most days, then every day, now she often does two. I didn't do anything to make this happen - from what I understand, the ability to take longer naps (once out of the newborn phase) is developmental and usually appears around six months, so I suspect if you wait it out and try not to stress it will eventually happen. I think she did suffer from overtiredness while we were in that stage but I dealt with it as best I could by staying on a four nap a day schedule until she started doing at least one long nap most days (though this was later than most books suggest you transition to three).

@BerthaYoung mine was exactly like that with the feeding. I tried transitioning to a 3 hrly schedule, which wasn't great as the larger meals made her quite refluxy, but we have settled on probably every 2-2.5 hours ish, basically through me waiting until she seems hungry rather than offering constantly (which I had been doing through fear of reverse cycling, which happened anyway). I feel like she actually eats more in the day now despite feeding less often because she takes more at each feed, so well worth trying. Also, having her a bit hungrier enables me to do a split feed in the evening - I try to get as much as possible down her before bathtime. The theory being that as I (hopefully!) teach her to stop feeding to sleep I can curtail that last pre-bed feed without worrying that she hasn't had enough (or maybe at some point get rid of it entirely as I've read that for some babies even feeding right before falling asleep can create an association even if they don't feed to sleep)

@Etherealhedgehog so good to know I'm not the only one with a short napper and you've given me hope he'll sleep longer in future.
I'm considering doing the split feed in evening too as often find he gets sleepy after the bath and then doesn't feed well so wakes earlier to feed again.
I've been doing a 4hr feeding schedule for a while now and it seems to work well for him and even with the night wake ups he's only added one more feed overnight since the regression.

Out of interest what bedtimes do you all use? We put him to bed at 7.45-8 and that usually means he's awake between 6.30-7am (even when he's been awake in the night)

I hope you all got some sleep last night, we were up 4/5 times (it's a blur) so a little better than other nights! Now for lots of

So glad o found this thread. @tangbloodyfastic and @etherealhedgehog I could have written your posts!

Into week 4 (I think) of sleep regression with my 5 month old DS. At the start of it he started going to bed earlier (7.30/8pm rather than 9.30/10pm), until 3 days ago he was having a 3 hor 4 our initial block and then waking every hour or so (occasionally he goes 2 hours, sometimes it's only 40mins). That intiial block has only been 2 hours the last 3 nights . I feed him down every time he wakes but haven't been able to get him back into his cot without him waking during transition or 5 mins later, it's like he's become a really light sleeper. So husband generally gets kicked into the spare room around 1am and I can just about get DS onto the bed beside me without waking him. So so tiring! I was managing until he dropped that longer initial block, now I'm going to bed at 9.30pm and still feel like a walking zombie.

Day naps are a little better, they dropped down to a max of 45mins and he was always napping on me but i introduced a nap routine 10 days ago (short version of bedtime routine) and I feed him down then put him into his cot. He is still on 5 naps a day which is a bit comical as I read they normally drop down from 4 to 3 naps at 5 months old.

My aim is to not have to boob him to sleep all the time, for at least 1 of his naps to be 1.5hours or more and for him to sleep in his cot at night with a vastly reduced number of night wakings. At the moment that seems akin to asking for the moon on a stick!

I'm trying to give him a chance to fall asleep on his own at each nap time. I've been feeding him 30mins before nap is due, doing routine then putting him in his cot and sitting next to it singing/shh'ing/stroking/patting but reading above it sounds like some of you leave the room completely? Is that right? Currently he is either quite content and just kicks around, windmills arms, bats at my face and sucks his comforter but shows no sign of going to sleep, or he grizzles which quickly accelerates into a full cry at which point I always pick him up.

Whoever mentioned flip flopping between thinking "it's ok, this is normal and developmental and will resolve itself in time" and "I've broken my child and am doomed to spend my life as s walking zombie" hit the nail on the head for me!

Wow, apologies, that was a massive post! Essentially I'm experiencing a lot of the same things as many of you so here for the solidarity but can't offer any solutions!

@BerthaYoung I've been feeding on demand but if it gets past 3 hours offering. I'm finding the moving away from distractions really helpful. Also if I can't go to somewhere quiet (e.g on a walk) then DS will not pull himself off if I stand up and move around whilst breastfeeding. It's as if he gets frustrated when feeding as his view isn't as exciting so moving around helps although I thought that would distract him more! we had a great night last night woke only at 3am and 6am (really not trying to rub it in to everyone struggling, as the 30/40 min wakes was us only a few days ago). But if my experience can be of any help then that's all that matters

PS are also experiencing the sudden much shorter naps and a lot more effort to get naps done.

@TangBloodyFasticnit didn’t take long to get them to associate the nose stroking with sleep - maybe 4 days or so? I kept everything else the same, so for us that is swaddling, white noise etc.

One twin is doing relatively well.... the other one is back to feeding to sleep every time! One twin I now wrap up, shut curtains, switch on white noise, give him his dummy and do 3 nose strokes and I’m done. So will have to work on removing the dummy at some point, but better than feeding him to sleep. Still have to resort to feeding to sleep to try and extend nap though. The other twin is still a bit of a nightmare to settle.

@JJxo that sounds like bliss! Hoping we get there in a couple of months (I’m take an extremely gradual approach!)

@AdventureAhead I never left the room while one of my was still awake, and I never let one even grizzle, I just don’t have it in me! It does take longer doing it that way, but please don’t worry that you have broken your child. They WILL do it, you can encourage them to do it earlier if you want to, but it depends on where your personal boundaries are and the temperament of your child.

Most of the time I can get DS to self settle for naps but why is he still not connecting sleep cycles?! It's driving me insane.

Also the usual shushing and patting doesn't work, however I have found another way which may work for those of you who hold or rock your babies. Last night DS was turning on his side himself and sucking his thumb (he's 6 months) so when he was crying and not settling for his naps today, I turned him on his side and shushed and patted him on his side. It worked and he was asleep in 10 seconds. Not sure if this will continue to work (knowing my luck it won't!) but just a suggestion as I think he may prefer to sleep on his side. I know you're supposed to put them on their back but you can slowly put them on their back once in deep sleep or if they're able to move on their front and back independently then they can sleep in whatever position they're comfortable in. My DD used to always turn on her front and sleep like that for the whole night, and she started sleeping through the night very early on.

Right ladies. Help me!!!

She's 5 months. Naps are mainly in the sling tho we now have success with the car and the pram but both have to be moving.

At night she ends up either being cuddled or fed to sleep. We had some weight issues so I need to be able to feed her when she wants it at night.

But she is waking every 1 to 2 hours and wakes up soon after I've left her bedroom. I'm knackered.

Sorry hit post too soon.

For info
We cosleep
She sleeps best on my arm which is neither comfortable nor particularly safe
She is EBF
We have White noise
Bedtime routine the same every night
Naps she is doing either 2x30 min or 1 longer one in the morning, then a 2 hr 1 til 3 (tho that requires serious effort as she wakes up after the first 30 mins and fights like billy-o) then a 30 min at 5pm. Hasnt independently napped since she was tiny.

I dont know where to start

Hi @OhToBeASeahorse! Sounds so familiar.....my DD was similar at that age. I remember being so pleased when I could finally get her to sleep in the pram instead of always on me, it felt like such a break!

Do keep persisting with that long lunch time nap. Eventually they do get it. I found with DD that the time to resettle her got shorter and shorter as time went by and then one day I realised I wasn’t having to do it any more. Currently battling with my twins to get them to do a long lunch nap. Works about half the time at the moment, but like you it takes a lot of convincing.

If I were you, I’d start with getting as many “good” sleep associations in as possible, as you won’t be able to remove the others until after you’ve got those well established. I find having an iron clad routine is helpful too - if their body expects sleep they settle much more quickly and that’s when you can start removing associations.

What does success look like for you? It’s easier to give advice if we know what you’re aiming for

I am officially a mad woman. Had my COVID vaccination yesterday (yay!) and then had a dreadful night - I was convinced that my twins were too hot in their swaddle because I woke up drenched in sweat. Then I thought they were too cold because I was shivering. Daft thing that I am - I was just a bit feverish, the room was fine! I worried myself silly about it.

I also was being a bit neurotic about feeding. Neither twin is connecting sleep cycles or going to sleep independently yet, but one is making good progress. I pop his dummy in and stroke his nose for a moment and he’s straight off if he’s ready for sleep. So last night I decided that I would give him his dummy for half of night wakings and feed him for the other as what I’d like is to get him down to 2 feedings per night and I don’t mind if I have to pop the dummy in for the others - I don’t mind feeding to sleep, but it takes a little while so chaos results if both twins wake at the same time, so I needed something quicker! Bonkers woman that I am though, I felt so guilty that I was feeding one and not the other.... so I gave him his dummy and he settled instantly, but I waited 15 mins and then sneaked in a dream feed each time! So he still got fed once per waking, just not when he woke. I am officially mad.

@SKA86 stick at it! I think it takes them time to know what to expect and for their bodies to adjust. Sounds like you’re making really good progress, you’ll get there!

It’s so reassuring to read everyone’s experiences - both those who are in the thick of it (you’re not alone!) and those who are slowly seeing some things change, like naps starting to lengthen. It’s interesting to know everyone’s goals and helpful to hear little tips and general strategies, too.

For now I’m focusing on maximising nap time - she almost always wakes after 30-45 minutes, but this week I’ve started trying to resettle her and fairly often this leads to another cycle. I didn’t know this was an option before...! It’s consoling to hear from @AdventureAhead that you’re still on five naps a day. It’s tempting to think you should try to force what the books say, and the idea of a regular three nap day seems so appealing right now, especially as I’m starting to (/trying to) make plans to see people as lockdown eases. But our babies need what our babies need!

I’m also trying to do at least one (part) nap a day in her bedside cot, and am finding the side-lying shush pat that @SKA86 described works pretty well for us too, though I still feed till sleepy.

I think working on falling asleep in the cot at bedtime will be our next step, when I’m brave enough to risk more sleeplessness, but I haven’t yet figured out how to get her to feed enough unless she’s feeding to sleep. Your plan of splitting the feed before and after bath and then gradually shifting sounds good though, @Etherealhedgehog!

A few people have mentioned white noise - we’ve had success using it to calm DD when she’s overtired or distracted, and I use it for buggy naps (I’m surprised passers-by aren’t more concerned, it sounds like something’s about to detonate...) but we’re now using alpha waves for at home naps and nighttime as recommended by Sarah Ockwell-Smith, and it’s much more pleasant for me to listen to! Not sure of the impact on baby as we weren’t consistently using white noise before but it can’t hurt to build that cue in. She is currently sleeping through the neighbours scraping wallpaper off in the next room 🤨 so it must be doing something!

I’m also getting one of those sleeping bags with separate legs/feet to see if that helps her get more comfortable in the cot - will report back!

Oh @crazychemist I can just picture all of this! Sleep deprivation plus vaccine side effects would make anyone feel a bit crazy! It must be such a lot to keep track of everything with two babies, and to share yourself between them physically, mentally and emotionally - not to mention your DD. I think you’re doing incredibly well!

@crazychemist

I am officially a mad woman. Had my COVID vaccination yesterday (yay!) and then had a dreadful night - I was convinced that my twins were too hot in their swaddle because I woke up drenched in sweat. Then I thought they were too cold because I was shivering. Daft thing that I am - I was just a bit feverish, the room was fine! I worried myself silly about it.

I also was being a bit neurotic about feeding. Neither twin is connecting sleep cycles or going to sleep independently yet, but one is making good progress. I pop his dummy in and stroke his nose for a moment and he’s straight off if he’s ready for sleep. So last night I decided that I would give him his dummy for half of night wakings and feed him for the other as what I’d like is to get him down to 2 feedings per night and I don’t mind if I have to pop the dummy in for the others - I don’t mind feeding to sleep, but it takes a little while so chaos results if both twins wake at the same time, so I needed something quicker! Bonkers woman that I am though, I felt so guilty that I was feeding one and not the other.... so I gave him his dummy and he settled instantly, but I waited 15 mins and then sneaked in a dream feed each time! So he still got fed once per waking, just not when he woke. I am officially mad.

@crazychemist this is so relatable (and something to make you laugh when this is all a bad memory to look back on!?) I'm constantly going round in circles on things and I only have one! The last week or so we have been getting some really odd tummy symptoms, which has made sleep even worse, and I'm umming and ahhing every day on what it could be/what to do about it/what to try and give up to see if it's made a difference. But just found first tooth cut through today so I suspect that is the answer - thank god, as I don't think I could do without my daily Costa!

Hope the symptoms have worn off now and you're back to 'just' terrible sleep to contend with

On a lighter note, does anyone else get REALLY irritated by their partner peacefully slumbering through night feeds (if you have one and they are not up!) The sound of him quietly breathing drives me NUTS - sometimes I'm almost pleased when he starts snoring so I have a legitimate reason to give him a poke!

Argh 30 min nap hell today. Driving me mad!