4 month sleep regression support group

[crazychemist]

Hi All,

Anyone want to join me for mutual handholding through 4 month sleep regression?

I’ve got twin boys, and am finding it quite tough at the moment. Long naps are completely a thing of the past, 45 mins tops. Waking every 2 hours at night. Classic 4 month sleep regression stuff.

I’m doing my best to get the majority of naps in their (our) room with swaddle, white noise, as dark as I can get it. They aren’t really self settling at the moment - I’ve been giving them a dummy because otherwise they disturb each other before they nod off. They also have a feed very close to going to sleep to get them nice and drowsy, but there’s at least a 5 minute gap between feed and sleep except at bedtime (which is mayhem due to overtiredness).

How are you finding it? What have you tried so far?

@SKA86 that sounds tough! Hope there has been a bit of improvement since you last posted

@BerthaYoung I know that feeling well of zooming through tea and going to bed with dd at some ridiculously early time - not that I complained when I had to do it as it was sleep I desperately needed

We have had quite a big step forward since I last posted
I got that fed up with the relentless waking/unable to settle as soon as she went to bed I decided that I'd try a bit of controlled crying. Shush pat leave the room, go back in after 5 mins etc etc etc
It's worked wonders. She now settles herself, not religiously but more often than not I can have my evening meal in peace. Get around 3-3.5 hours the first stint. Feed then back down and usually things start to go a bit from about midnight
Then we are still on two hourly feeds - which is frustrating as I know she can go longer. Not sure if that is something that will just extend with time or if I have to change something to tackle the issue
I am also getting naps in the cot which is huge for us. Not long naps but a nap is a nap as far as I'm concerned 🙌🏻

Hang in there ladies.... if I can see progress at my end - it can happen to anyone!! I was beginning to think we were a lost cause

Sending sleeping vibes to all your little ones mine included. X

@LGBirmingham @SKA86 very up and down here as well - and whilst I do appreciate and try to remind myself of the improvements we have seen since this regression thing started three (!!!) whole months ago, it's also brutal because for every improvement that's stuck we've also had others that haven't, or just better patches that end. And EVERY TIME I get my hopes up and think maybe this is it, we're done with this, which makes it even more brutal when the crap sleep inevitably returns.

We recently had a period of several weeks particularly bad sleep, which I think was teething related, and after a few days post-tooth of genuinely thinking we'd turned the corner, we're back in it. So now I'm thinking that once we see the back of this current stretch of teething it might be time to start considering some kind of sleep training. I'm becoming increasingly aware of my return to work - July doesn't feel that far away. Still undecided though, and I think DP will REALLY struggle with letting her cry at all, which is hard as I suspect both parents need to be committed to get through it. @TangBloodyFastic great to hear that it's helped you - can I ask how many nights until you felt like you were through the difficult crying stage? And once you'd done that at night was putting them down for naps much easier or did you have to go through the same process? (Also, just to clarify, I feel somewhat terrible even contemplating this, but I have tried so hard to gradually wean her off that last feed to sleep and she is just not having it, I think she's so determined to cling to it that I'll either have to feed her to sleep until she no longer wants to, which could be a very long time, or go cold turkey, which will be a bit brutal however we do it).

@Etherealhedgehog
Morning!
Tbh there was no real difficult crying stage
The first night we tried it took 25mins and the crying the whole time was a a tired cry. If she had started getting herself really upset I would have stopped the process but she never got herself in a state.
Ok there were some times where I was a bit 🤔 is this going to work but after 15 minutes she was clearly starting to self soothe - fingers in mouth etc
The crying was becoming more intermittent and at 25 mins it was like a switch had been switched and she was out!
I then tried it for the morning nap and she was out after 15 minutes
I am now on day 5 and 25 mins has been the longest cry. We average around 15-20 with a shush pat every 5 minutes, if the crying is slowing I will push it to 6-7 minutes
So far so good. This can obviously change at the drop of a hat so I'm not counting my chickens just yet but for us this is a really big breakthrough as before we were feeding to sleep whenever she woke up. This could have been 15 times a night. Each time she'd only maybe suck/feed for a couple of minutes and be asleep again so she was clearly not hungry but Unable to self soothe
I also only do this at the moment at the times I am more likely to win the battle. So bedtime when I KNOW she is tired and first nap of the day when apparently the sleepy hormone is still in their system

I have not lost a battle yet and she seems so much more settled for this new routine.

I will add she is also now in her own room. I find it impossible todo this when she is co sleeping with me as I'm right there.

I have only just felt ready, and felt she was ready, to take these steps. Before now I didn't think she was mentally able to do what she needed to do to get herself to sleep.
If you think you or your baby aren't ready then don't try too early and set yourself up for disappointment, in a sleep deprived state, the last thing you need is additional frustration
X

@TangBloodyFastic this is really helpful, thankyou! And sounds promising. Funny thing is, I think she actually can self settle - sometimes when she's wide awake in the middle of the night and not interested in feeding I put her in her cot awake out of frustration and 50% of the time she farts around for a bit and then falls asleep. The challenge is at the start of the night when she is very unimpressed if I try to pull her off before she's fed herself all the way to sleep - so I think it's the stopping feeding that will be hard, rather than the self-settling IYSWIM. Unfortunately though we are still in the same room with no chance of changing that until we move in the next few months (fingers crossed!) as we're in a one bed. So I'm thinking about trying it for bedtime and experimenting with DP settling her while I hide in bed if she wakes up loads still in the night but I guess that will make it trickier.

@TangBloodyFastic ahh that's great! Glad you're making some progress in sleep training. I'm still doing well some days and absolutely terrible the rest of the days so I've kind of lost hope.

In other news, just spoken to my GP as she thinks I have PND, as I'm feeling very low and letting it all get to me far too much. Not sure if anyone has any experience with anti depressants?

@Etherealhedgehog
50% of the time is 50% more than we ever got! She would never even contemplate just laying there and closing her eyes. Whenever I put her down awake she would cry and I'd immediately pick her up and soothe her.
Is she feeding completely to sleep or is there a point in which her feeding pattern changes.. slows down/comforts? It would be at the point that you know she's finished and it then she's changed to maybe a habitual suck rather than a proper feed
I've got to get dd onto formula for when I go back to work so I've switched her bedtime feed to a bottle to make it easier for me to know when it's time to put her down and it's worked really well for us

@SKA86 sorry to hear you're struggling. I think the first step, and most difficult, is accepting that there maybe something a bit more serious than just baby blues - so huge well done for seeking help!
I don't have any experience but pretty sure you will completely different in a few weeks
X

@ska86 sorry to hear that, but definitely agree that identifying the problem and seeking help is the biggest step so well done. I don't have first-hand experience but from the experience of friends and family who have suffered from depression (though not PND) I know that they can be a game-changer. Also that different ones work for different people so if you're on something and feel it's not working for you, or the side effects are too much, then it's definitely worth speaking to the GP about alternatives. Good luck with it, and I really hope you get a break from the crap sleep soon

How's everyone getting on? I think we got through it after 5 weeks. We've had about 3 weeks of 3 or 4 wakes ups a night. Which although probably sounds awful to some we were on 5-7 during the worst of the regression.

Some lingering issues though. He often wakes only 40 mins or 1 hr (those times precisely) after first going to sleep. Sometimes I came hold him in the cot and get drifts back off. Other times I have to feed him. He is also taking a very long time to get to sleep often an hour. Or I get him to sleep after only 15 mins but he wakes instantly after being put in the cot and can't be soothed there.

@SKA86 sorry to here about the pnd. They think I have it and I've been referred to an organisation called Acacia not sure if you have that near you? But honestly I think it's just sleep deprivation for me, my husband has been doing a couple of nights feeds to allow me to get more sleep and I feel a lot better. Could that be the case for you too? Hope you're getting a bit more rest now? I'm sure you're doing a great job of motherhood.

@LGBirmingham I actually do think sleep deprivation and the anxiety linked to sleep training etc has a lot to do with feeling depressed too. I always feel more positive when he's slept better the night before or napped really well.

Glad you've felt better recently!

Also regarding waking up soon after bedtime, could it be that the wake window between the last nap and bedtime is too short? I find that lengthening this helps. It's really trial and error, keep a diary of times he sleeps, when he wakes etc and what you've done to work out any kind of pattern!

@LGBirmingham I'm glad to hear things are improving for you! We're in week 8 and down to 1-2 wakes per night which is pretty amazing as like you we had a long period of many per night.
We've also got similar lingering issues... He takes longer to go to sleep (feeding for 40mins minimum & often has to be rocked to sleep after) and he isoften wakes after 30 mins to 1 hr but usually can be rocked back to sleep then wakes around 1 and again at 4ish.
Naps are still a nightmare as it's still a fight to get him to sleep during the day and he will only sleep for 30 mins
He's 6 months this week and everything I've read says they should be on 3 naps a day totalling 3-4hrs but that seems impossible right now!! At least he's getting more sleep at night than before though.
Here's hoping things keep getting better!

@spendingagain I reduced my DS's naps to 2 a day around the 6 month mark as he started napping for longer than 45 mins. Since having 2 naps he sleeps for longer. I've lengthened his awake times so he gets more tired.

Also I was obsessed by putting him down for naps before he even got tired as I was afraid he would get overtired. Be careful of this as this is often the reason they have short naps too

@SKA86 thanks for the tips - I was wondering about lengthening his awake times as he just doesn't seem to be tired enough and I'm definitely guilty of worrying about him getting over tired so probably putting him down when he's not ready. Will try and see how it goes.

@SKA86 I'm thinking you might be right about the wake window thing. Although I'm pretty certain his wake window is 2 hrs the last two days naps have got really messed up for various reasons and he's ended up finishing the third nap at 4. I've put bed time earlier and he's fallen asleep easily by 6:45. He's also not woken up again until 3 hours later. The only problem is he gets so upset because he's obviously exhausted. He's fractious before his bath and by the time I'm getting him dressed he's screaming!

How is the sleep going for you now?

@spendingagain That's amazing that you're on only 1 or 2 wakes. That must feel great! How old is your baby mine is 5 months today but our regression started at 13 weeks.

I must admit that a while ago I entirely gave up cot naps as they ended up being 20 mins long! It had become such a source of stress for me and the whole day felt like a perpetual nap attempt I just let him nap in my lap or on a walk in the carrier or pushchair and it means he now takes only 3 long naps, sometimes he will sleep for 2 hrs in one go. I know all the sleep consultants say it's creating bad habits but I don't buy it as he's in the cot all night at the moment. I will go back to cot naps at some point but I'm finishing a masters right now so don't want the added stress. I also figure even if he can only nap in my lap naps aren't forever, they give them up eventually, and when he goes to nursery they assure me that peer pressure is enough to get the worst nappers to sleep easily. I also think as an adult it is an invaluable skill to be able to fall asleep in unusual places like trains, cars or wherever. I don't think training a child to only sleep in their cot us actually a good idea.

@spendingagain sorry just seen you said he was 6 months! Hopefully we'll only have one or two wakes at 6 months too

@LGBirmingham our sleep issues actually improved for a couple of weeks and I was sooo much happier that this regression was looking like it was over. He started napping better and stopped waking up so frequently at night.

HOWEVER, in the past week we seem to be back to short naps and frequent wakings again. I just want to scream in frustration! I know sleep can be up and down but I feel my anxiety coming on again. I don't know if this is another regression or teething etc but I feel like I'm living the same nightmare again.

@ska86 how old is yours? Mine is 7.5 months and I'm pretty sure we've been in the 8-10 month regression for a few weeks now. It's brutal. We were on approximately 4 wake-ups a night (including one around my bedtime) but now it's 5+ always and there have been a handful of nights I could hardly put her down at all. I'm back to work in eight weeks and we're at the end of our tether regardless so we have an appointment with a sleep consultant on Monday who I'm really hoping will help us to get her self-settling and I'm turn I'm really hoping that will improve the situation! Hope it gets better for you because going straight from one regression to another is awful. Though on the plus side, it seems like this one should in theory be shorter and maybe something to ride out, not something you get stuck in indefinitely like the four month one.

@Etherealhedgehog DS is 7 months today. He started sleeping better at 6 months and he's now back to his 4 month regression behaviour since last week. He's not napping enough in the day or sleeping enough at night. He wakes up at 5.30 every day!!

@SKA86 sounds like it might be the same thing - for us it's definitely partly teething, partly learning to crawl, partly separation anxiety and partly I think object permanence has really kicked in and she's now really bothered when she wakes up without my boob in her mouth (I've noticed she goes from asleep to shrieking much quicker than she used to). It seems so cruel when things were only just getting better!

Mine will sleep til 6.30am on me, but seems to routinely wake up at 4.50am and can't be successfully put back in the cot asleep after that so I feel you on the early morning pain also

Maybe we just update the title and this can segue neatly into an 8-10 month sleep regression support group

(Sorry, literally nothing useful to contribute - mine still takes decent naps but that's definitely only because she naps on me. I'm sure as soon as we try to move naps to the cot in readiness for my return to work, they'll all shrink back to 35 mins again, if they happen at all!)

@SKA86 oh no sorry to hear that it's got worse again. I'm glad it did get better for you for a bit though. I've heard there's a 6 month regression and an 8 month regression. Could it be one of those? It's so hard not getting enough sleep isn't it? It made me practically suicidal with exhaustion with the 7 wake ups a night for 5 weeks. I'm dreading the next regression. Am I correct in thinking they don't necessarily last as long as the 4 month one as the 4 month one is to do with a change to a more adult sleep cycle that involves extra phases of light sleep? Not sure what causes the later regressions though?

Hopefully this regression will be over more quickly for you. Perhaps with baby in nursery the naps will improve and subsequently your nights will too?

I'm keen to hear how you're all getting on with this 8 month regression. It's 3 months off for us, although the 4 month one came early so I guess this one can too? It would be helpful to me to see how you deal with it and come out the other side. Please keep posting updates.

@LGBirmingham they do seem never-ending. My understanding is the six month one is basically a growth spurt/a few nights of tons of wake ups for proper feeds. We either didn't have that or it only lasted two nights. The 8-10 month one is a bit vague but as best I can understand it's not one thing, rather loads of things that can disrupt sleep around that age - teething, separation anxiety, development of object permanence etc. That's definitely how it feels for us, and it started when she was about 6.5 months with a terrible bout of teething and then it's been one thing or another since then. I'm really hoping it means it ends early too but not sure if it works that way! Will definitely keep updating. It is definitely comforting to know other people are at the same stage!

To give you an example of how it seems to go - she finally nailed proper crawling last weekend and cut a tooth yesterday so I am eagerly awaiting a bit of slightly better sleep...maybe? Hasn't appeared yet... But after her first tooth cut around six months we had four nights of sleep that was almost as good as pre-regression - only two wake-ups, it was magical. Only four days though and then it was straight into two more weeks of teething