4 month sleep regression support group

[crazychemist]

Hi All,

Anyone want to join me for mutual handholding through 4 month sleep regression?

I’ve got twin boys, and am finding it quite tough at the moment. Long naps are completely a thing of the past, 45 mins tops. Waking every 2 hours at night. Classic 4 month sleep regression stuff.

I’m doing my best to get the majority of naps in their (our) room with swaddle, white noise, as dark as I can get it. They aren’t really self settling at the moment - I’ve been giving them a dummy because otherwise they disturb each other before they nod off. They also have a feed very close to going to sleep to get them nice and drowsy, but there’s at least a 5 minute gap between feed and sleep except at bedtime (which is mayhem due to overtiredness).

How are you finding it? What have you tried so far?

Morning Ladies - we are entering week 3 of regression. Currently sat in bed with DS (4.5 months) asleep in arms and refusing to be put back in cot. DH has a job interview today so doing whatever I can to make sure he isn't disturbed. Like others, we have had odd nights where he may do a 5-6 hour stretch in the early evening but mostly waking every 2 hours, with the worst nights being every half an hour. I found on week 1 which was our worst week that he lost his thumb (used to self soothe this way) I think this was due to teething as he spent lots of time chomping on his hand instead of using thumb.

Also, we have had a huge increase in number of night feeds , another that breastfeeds to sleep and has done so since birth. I can tell his feeding schedule has changed as less frequent feeds during day and he is soaking a nappy within 3/4 hours during night due to increased milk intake I would imagine. This then leads to more wakefulness during night as having to change nappy a couple of times. This is such a tough phase, and find it so so hard (but happy for them) when you hear of other mum's whose babies seem to have just not regressed and are still doing 8-10 hour blocks. Glad to have somewhere to go to during the night now!

Hi - how’s everyone doing? We’ve had a couple of busy nights with shorter sleeps and a whole hour’s activity around 3am- a combination of me trying to settle her in the cot while she protests, then eventually feeding her, only for her to wake again minutes after she’s put down, and then more shushing. Like you @JJxo feeding patterns have changed this month - I found this article helpful kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/4mo-sleep/

She can’t be hungry every hour though?! I worry that feeding her at every wake up just reinforces the habit. But I can’t get her to take more in the day...

I confess I haven’t been changing her nappy at night 😬 Not since she stopped pooing at night. To be fair at that point she was sleeping 6 hours at a time. Does everyone else? I tried it last night and sadly that didn’t fix the wakes 🙈

I also found this post reassuring. If the guru of gentle parenting finds this phase of babyhood ‘hell’ my despair is valid...! sarahockwell-smith.com/2013/08/29/help-my-4-5-month-old-is-sleeping-like-a-newborn-again-aka-as-the-4-5-month-old-babies-from-hell/

Hang in there everyone. It won’t always be like this.

@BerthaYoung sounds like you are having a tough time too, thanks for the article links! I never used to change nappy through the night unless there was a poo. But then suddenly DS has started to produce really heavy nappies through night, at the beginning he woke up soaked through his bodysuit and sleep bag so we had no choice but to start changing him through the night to avoid this happening liz

@BerthaYoung we're on our third 'busy' night in a row here (I think I'll start calling them that in future, makes it seem more bearable!) Sleeps generally lasting 45-90 mins, and horrendous early wake-ups. Big respect to those who deal with those kind of sleep windows every night - I feel like one day of it nearly kills me!

We have also not been changing her nappy overnight, unless she poops during an early morning feed (sometimes happens). It tends to wake her right up, more so than any wet nappy I think, with the added disadvantage that she seems to regress to newborn ways at night and screams blue murder through the whole thing - we're in a flat with neighbors on all sides so I'm sure she woke up about four households when I did it tonight (she's had terrible nappy rash so I braved it!)

Our new fun thing is trying to figure out if/how to fit in the third nap in a way that doesn't make night sleep even worse than usual (6 months yesterday, marking officially 2.5 months since the start of this regression ). Really hope most of you get through this faster than we have as it seems like every month a new sleep challenge comes along and they're starting to pile up! Next week we'll get to find out whether she's one of the ones who sleeps better when we start solids, or worse!

Busy night here too We also only change the nappy if there's a poo, which isn't very often as she tends to go the same time every day, unless i've had something with garlic in!

Sorry to hear you're all still having a tough time, can't wait to read a positive post

Last night was the same as always, 3 hours solid when I put her down and once she's had the 10/11pm feed it swiftly goes downhill. Whinging/fidgeting/flailing arms and legs every hour. I'm absolutely done in. This is every night 😭

I physically don't think I can cope for another 2 months, I'll be going back to work in June 😭😭😭

Glad to know I’m not being completely negligent with the nighttime nappies! Thanks for the reassurance. But poor you @JJxo, that’s a lot of wee for a little baby!

I feel your pain with the nearby neighbours, @Etherealhedgehog. After months of both houses beside us in the terrace being empty we now have new neighbours and I suspect they might be regretting their move 😬 I did find myself wondering yesterday whether you can report a crying baby to the council. Or police... Starting to think I’d quite happily be arrested just for a night off 🤪

The prospect of going back to work feels impossible at the moment I know, @TangBloodyFastic. I keep wondering how women in America and elsewhere manage to go back within 3 months, or even sooner 🤯 It’s so hard not knowing how long this will go on for, and horrible feeling like you can’t go on. Solidarity - and a gesture of commiseration 💐

@SKA86, sounds like you’re having a tough time. Although you can encourage self settling, remember that like any other milestone the timing is mostly out of your control - you can give your baby the opportunity to learn, but you can’t force it. Eventually your child WILL start sleeping better, don’t beat yourself up that it’s taking longer than you’d like. Batten down the hatches and focus on surviving it!

Welcome @DaisyChainsForever! We had 3rd round of injections last week too. Glad their over for a while now!

@JJxo that must be so frustrating about the night nappies! Can you try using a bigger size so you don’t have to change quite so often? Or even doubling up? I had a friend that used to put a size 5 over a size 3 so that she wouldn’t have to do a night change. Worth a try? That many night feeds sounds exhausting!

@TangBloodyFastic would you consider a swaddling or sleeping bag? My twins are still swaddled, which helps - they wake every 2 hours if swaddled, every 45 minutes if not (which I found out when I hadn’t got it dried after washing so left it off!). My Dd used to have a baby sleeping bag, which left her arms free but helped confine her legs a bit, and I’d tuck a thin sheet over her and then under her arms so she didn’t startle quite so easily. Back to work sounds terrifying, I’m not back till September and I hope that we’ve made decent progress with sleep by then, I just can’t imagine how to cope otherwise...

@BerthaYoung I don’t change nappies at night. If I do, the babies are up for at least 45 mins, whereas they usually only take 5-10 mins to resettle if I feed them. Modern nappies can usually cope for most of overnight. I suspect if your neighbours reported you, you’d only get sympathy from parents who have been there before

We’ve had a bit of a crappy week. I had mastitis a week ago, which was shit. I’m on antibiotics and one twin has been on a nursing strike, presumably because he doesn’t like the taste. So he won’t feed to fullness and wakes up because he’s still hungry..... gah. In the meantime have totally stalled on the idea of self settling, will start trying again once I’ve finished the course of antibiotics.

I understand that the main way to get out of the regression is for baby to learn to settle themselves. Today I've tried to leave him in the cot to settle himself rather than the usual rocking.

Surprisingly it worked for his last nap. Maybe I got the timing right but he was unhappy and moaning here and there for 20 mins but then fell asleep.

However I tried at bedtime and it didn't work. He was screaming hysterically and I went to him, did the shushing and patting and picked him up at intervals but he wasn't getting it. Had to rock him to sleep in the end. I tried for 30 mins but then thought this isn't working and he's clearly upset and will just get overtired.

I feel like a failure. Arghhhg

Oh @SKA86 you’re not a failure! You made your baby feel safe and loved and soothed him to sleep, and isn’t that exactly what we’re here for? I’d take it as a real win that he managed it once, with practice he’ll hopefully get the hang of it soon!

Sorry to hear everyone’s had some rough nights. Ours are mixed - either he’ll be up every hour or he manages a few longer stints with a feed or two. We’re currently reintroducing normal formula after having been on specialist milk for suspected CMPA and he’s definitely not intolerant but he does seem to find the normal formula harder work which seems to have a knock on effect on his sleep.

We’re the same with nappies overnight @BerthaYoung, it’s really not worth waking him up too much!

Sending you all good vibes for tonight!

@notetaker aww thanks for making me feel a little better

In regards to nappies, I'd definitely suggest going up a size as I used to have leaking nappies all the time and going up a size resolved this immediately.

Tesco sells a brand called rascal and friends.. these are amazing nappies! I don't change nappies overnight and the nappy is still fine 13 hours later and really dry inside even though filled with pee. I swear by these nappies for night time and explosive poos!

@SKA86 I’d say that an independent nap is a massive win for the day! Good on you for giving him space to learn something new, and supporting him when he needed it and asked you for it. (It’s only happened for us once EVER, and that was by accident when she was tiny and I didn’t know it was important and to be encouraged 😭)

@crazychemist I’m so sorry 😞 mastitis is awful and the knock-on effects on feeding and sleeping are so cruel just when you need your energy to recover. Really hope things settle soon. You are giving so much of yourself to those little boys - they’re lucky to have you.

@crazychemist sorry to hear about the mastitis - it sounds really miserable and definitely not the time to be making life harder by messing with sleep. Hope you're feeling better soon and the LO ends the strike!

@TangBloodyFastic I know what you mean about the return to work stress. I'm back in July and I keep telling myself she WILL be sleeping well by then but most days it's hard to imagine that will be the case

@SKA86 oh god, dont feel like a failure! If it worked first time none of us would be here and an independent nap is huge. I have to confess, it is a long time since I even tried to put DD into the cot for a nap - I should probably give her the chance again but keep telling myself I'll crack night sleep first (and, if I'm honest, the opportunity to work my way through my Netflix queue while she naps on my lap is not totally unwelcome!)

@SKA86 massive success! Doing it the first time is sooo hard. Remember, it’s a skill your baby has to learn. I bet the first time you rode a bike you didn’t nail it completely after one try? If he’s done it once he will do it again. It’s not an overnight thing, but it’ll become more frequent until eventually it’s the norm, you just have to be a bit patient and provide opportunities for him to practice. If he needs more support sometimes, of course you should give it - that’ll give him the confidence to try new things as he grows, knowing that you’ll help him when he wobbles.

@notetaker glad to hear it wasn’t CMPA, that sounds really complicated and expensive!

@Etherealhedgehog fingers crossed all is fine by July. If it isn’t, I promise you will still manage. I didn’t have my DD sleeping well for aaaaaages after I returned to work. It’s not as hard as it sounds like it will be, you just sort of compartmentalise and the tiredness doesn’t bother you at work. Besides, it’s so refreshing to speak to adults, drink coffee etc!

@crazychemist I used to let him sleep independently about two months ago. Most of the time he used to self settle with a few tears. The reason why I stopped was because I posted on this forum about him not getting it sometimes and he used to cry for ages, and I was told by nearly everyone that I was a terrible mother and it was barbaric to let him cry at 4 months!

I was pretty upset and traumatised to say the least by the horrible comments that I just stopped and carried on rocking him just so I wasn't being a bad mother

Sorry I keep meaning to write another message into this thread this week - thanks for the welcome @Etherealhedgehog ! I've identified with so many messages here and found them so useful.

I love the nappy tip @crazychemist and @SKA86 , I'm going to get the next size up in nappies for night time when I next do the shop. As feeds have recently increased at night time I'm finding I have to change DD at least once or she'll leak through.

I'm so sorry comments from some made you feel awful @SKA86. There's enough self doubt that creeps in without judgement from others. I'm sure you're doing an amazing job. Sounds like you're smashing it with one self soothed nap! I still feel like that's a million miles off here.

I'm still cuddling/ rocking DD to sleep for every nap unless she's in the buggy. The one change I've made is not letting her sleep on me during the day anymore. I thought this had cracked it as we had a night with waking at 1am, 3am and 7am, but a few days later and we're back to waking every 1-2 hours again.

That said these last couple of days we've had naps that have lasted longer than 30 minutes which feels like progress!

Hoping the mastitis gets better soon @crazychemist

Could I ask, does anyone worry about the reliance on white noise? I didn't use it for my elder DS as he seemed to enjoy the silence, but it seems to help with DD. I'm a grade A worrier and just wondering whether as she gets older she'll struggle to sleep without it (I'm thinking when she starts going to nursery).

@tallla interesting to hear that you think the napping not on you helped, for one night at least! I have been wondering if that's undermining our night sleep as she literally boobs herself from one sleep cycle to the next when she's napping and that is obviously not an option at night. But I think I'm gonna try and crack bedtime independent sleep first and then tackle naps (and in the meantime, appreciate the fact that she's my first so at least I can watch Netflix with impunity while she naps on me )

Re. White noise - we also use it. One of the many sleep books I have read suggested that it's very easy to wean off as you basically just turn the volume down a bit each night - so I expect we'll use it until she's about a year. Though we may forego it for naps as actually we found that when we were trying to settle her for naps in her cot, things that were reminiscent of bedtime seemed to just infuriate her (very sleep averse I guess!) so now we're working on a completely different routine/associations

So it seems like DS can occasionally self settle for his naps (takes around 20 mins and he does moan and have a bit of a cry), though there have been times when he's really upset so I have to hold him to sleep and then pop him in the cot once asleep.

However bedtimes are a definite no no for him self settling. He cries as soon as I put him down and screams so I have to hold him. I've read that bedtimes are supposed to be easier due to the natural sleep pressure and melatonin, but DS seems really distressed so I give up pretty quick (no point trying if he's clearly upset). What do you think is the problem? I really want to him sleep independent at bedtime but it seems like it's not happening any time soon!

Absolutely @Etherealhedgehog , enjoying that downtime during the day sounds great, plus it's nice to enjoy the cuddles and have a bit of bonding time too I guess .

Thanks for the info on white noise too, that makes sense, I'll stop worrying about it!

@SKA86 it's interesting that you're having a totally different experience at bedtime as opposed to nap times, is there anything at all that's different in your routine or the associations you're using?

Afternoon all!
How's everyone getting on?
Last night was not a good night. DD has been prescribed omeprozole as she's really struggling with reflux. I thought we were over the worst of it but the last month as been awful. It's really affecting her sleep - cos I really need another reason for her sleep to be affected 😭😭 - I thought we were seeing improvement but last night was as bad as any prior to the medication. It's early days but I'm just longing for the day where she doesn't grunt and squirm and whinge in her sleep. What id give for 4/5 hours of unbroken sleep 😫
Naps have been abysmal today. Had to go out for a walk just to get her to sleep.

@crazychemist how long did it take for your boys to associate nose stroking with sleep?
I am in a massive rut of feeding to sleep and she will NOT go to sleep by rocking/sitting/singing etc etc at all anymore
I am not consistent with the nose stroking as I'm sleep deprived and desp to just sit and let her feed while I doze but I need to do it religiously. I'm being a massive Debbie downer today though and can't see her ever "getting it" but surely she will?
I'm trying hard not to get worked up about the napping situation but I can't help but think the saying "relax, she's only little" doesn't really apply anymore (4 1/2 months) and I'm going to have a nightmare child on my hands and no one wants to look after her when I to back to work

Sorry for the negative post: I'm so sodding tired today and can't think positively or constructively 🙁

@crazychemist sorry forgot to answer your question re:swaddling- it's a massive no for DD. She will not have her arms in and goes all out diva tantrum if she can't move them.
Most of her overnight discomfort is reflux so I'm hoping once that is under control, the rest will fall into place - she says while keeping everything humanly possible crossed

@tallla I have a solid bedtime routine and room dark, white noise, sleeping bag etc same as naps.

Not sure why he feels that this is different to naps? Only thing I can think of is that he may be extra tired so I may need to move bedtime forward but this isn't always possible as evenings are manic and I have a daughter too! I'll try putting him to bed earlier but according to the huckleberry app I've got the timings right

@SKA86

I understand that the main way to get out of the regression is for baby to learn to settle themselves. Today I've tried to leave him in the cot to settle himself rather than the usual rocking.

Surprisingly it worked for his last nap. Maybe I got the timing right but he was unhappy and moaning here and there for 20 mins but then fell asleep.

However I tried at bedtime and it didn't work. He was screaming hysterically and I went to him, did the shushing and patting and picked him up at intervals but he wasn't getting it. Had to rock him to sleep in the end. I tried for 30 mins but then thought this isn't working and he's clearly upset and will just get overtired.

I feel like a failure. Arghhhg

Massive achievement in my eyes!!! Yes ok you might have 5 Steps back but at least you know he can do it! I would be hugely satisfied that he's done it and know that it is completely achievable again

Out of interest when you left him crying, how long was it for? DD gets herself into such a state that I'm not sure letting her cry a bit will be the way forward for her but not sure what my options are... maybe I need a book of some kind

@TangBloodyFastic The longest he's taken to sleep recently has been 20 mins or so but it hasn't been continuous crying. If he's been crying for 2 mins (that sleepy cry, not upset cry) then I get ready to go in but find that sometimes he stops and turn back again lol. He's had some naps with no crying at all, and that is usually when he's already drowsy and just had a feed. It doesn't always work though so if I find he's upset, I pick him up and hold him to sleep.

I've decided not to let him get too upset as I don't want him to associate me leaving him in his cot as a negative thing, so any sign of him getting more upset than is acceptable to me, and I'm picking him up and cuddling!

@TangBloodyFastic also forgot to mention don't wait until the time she should be sleeping to put her down. Ensure you put her down before she would get overtired and give her time to settle. So if she would take 30 mins to sleep, put her down 30 mins before her nap time. Again, doesn't always work as they may be under tired but generally works better.

Try with the morning nap first as they usually settle quicker in the morning due to them still having sleep pressure in their system from the night.