4 month sleep regression support group

[crazychemist]

Hi All,

Anyone want to join me for mutual handholding through 4 month sleep regression?

I’ve got twin boys, and am finding it quite tough at the moment. Long naps are completely a thing of the past, 45 mins tops. Waking every 2 hours at night. Classic 4 month sleep regression stuff.

I’m doing my best to get the majority of naps in their (our) room with swaddle, white noise, as dark as I can get it. They aren’t really self settling at the moment - I’ve been giving them a dummy because otherwise they disturb each other before they nod off. They also have a feed very close to going to sleep to get them nice and drowsy, but there’s at least a 5 minute gap between feed and sleep except at bedtime (which is mayhem due to overtiredness).

How are you finding it? What have you tried so far?

Morning everyone, hope you’re all ok? We’ve just finished nap no. 1 so I thought I’d check in and see how everyone is doing!

Hi @notetaker, how are things for you? First nap done by 9am paints a bit of a picture! Like you I did not expect having a baby to be this tough 🙈

Last night was pretty awful here - only managed three small naps yesterday so she was exhausted by bedtime, fell asleep before a full feed, and was then up at 10:20pm, 12:30am, 2am, 2:30am, 3am, 4am, 6am, 6:30am. I feel completely crazy. Most of those wake-ups I fed her back to sleep, a couple I managed to resettle in the cot and a couple I picked her up to cuddle/jiggle but she didn’t go back down for long after those. She’s feeding way more overnight than in the day at the moment. Wondering if I should try to cut down those night feeds... @Etherealhedgehog you mentioned a feeding schedule - how’s that going?

@berthayoung - oof, that sounds hardcore! I hope you get a better night tonight. The feeding schedule is...not really happening atm... I was trying to get her on a three hourly schedule in the hopes that it would encourage her to take larger meals during the day, so that she would feed before bathtime - the logic being that we'd do an evening split feed, which would make it easier to wean off feeding to sleep. After a few days of that we had our worst few nights of sleep yet - that combined with a massive uptick in sickiness made me wonder if she was getting a bit refluxy with the larger meals - so we have returned to our previous habits (smaller feeds, more often, not really scheduled) and the sick and sleep seem to have calmed down a bit. She is more willing to feed before bathtime now though - I think because I am waiting for her to get hungry rather than constantly offering.

I feel you on the feeding to sleep conundrum - we've never done it any other way but 2.5 months in to the sleep regression I definitely feel like something has to change (also, it takes her ages to get to sleep that way, so bedtime always takes at least 90 mins, if not 2 hrs). Am starting a similar process to what @crazychemist described but at bedtime and with sshh/patting - next week I'm going to start trying to pop her off awake and see if I can shh/pat her to sleep instead, as a precursor to eventually trying to put her down awake?! It feels unachieveable/unimaginable from where I'm standing but will let you know how it goes!

@BerthaYoung Bless you, no wonder you feel crazy! How did she nap today? Got everything crossed for a better night for you.

@Etherealhedgehog are you breastfeeding? I imagine feeding to sleep could be a tough one to wean a bf baby off?

So DS has decided that 6am is a completely appropriate time to wake up for the day, so that’s why he’d already had a nap by 9am! Managed to lengthen a couple of his other naps and he’s been in bed since half 8, so not a bad day all in all. Just wish he’d nap better in the pram! Gorgeous day here today and he screamed so much we nearly had to give up and go home 😂

@notetaker I am, and yeah I suspect it won't be easy but then it means that all bedtime settling and the vast majority of wake-ups have to be dealt with by me so the motivation is strong!

@notetaker also, we had a pram (and sling) screamer - she would sleep eventually but not without a total scream fest at beginning and end. It's awful, isn't it! I used to find I got very disapproving looks from older women when she was screaming in the pram, but stopping to comfort her just delayed the onset of sleep, which was the only thing that actually made her stop, so what are you gonna do!

At some point around 3.5 months she chilled out massively and we almost never have walks like that anymore - if I time a walk just right to a nap window she can be out in mins with no grouching. Hope your LO similarly comes round to it!

@Etherealhedgehog good luck with the shushing/patting! these things always seem impossible when you start them, with a bit of patience you get progress. I find it helps to keep reminding myself that NOBODY still feeds to sleep forever. I’m also finding it way easier second time round, just because my DD was a total boob monster, and if she can change her habits without tears, anyone can! It just takes time and consistency.

@BerthaYoung we had a similar night. Crap, isn’t it! My boys had the last round of vaccinations the day before yesterday and still seem a little uncomfortable, I’m sure that’s what’s got them so off track. Horrible! Hope it doesn’t last much longer. Glad there is a nice long break till the next lot of injections. Bad naps days are so draining - you get no let up during the day, and you know you won’t get to relax at night either!

@crazychemist you’re so right, I have to keep reminding myself that, with babies, nothing lasts forever! Not sure how you’re managing with twins, you must be some kind of superwoman 😂

@Etherealhedgehog we ditched the pram bassinet and put him in the seat unit and he still won’t sleep longer than half an hour but he’s much happier now. He’s just nosey!

Just so I don’t drive myself completely mad, are we supposed to be doing anything to help get this regression over and done with more quickly? Because at the moment we’re just holding on and riding it out, but if there’s something I can do I want to be doing it!

Also, thanks to you all for being a sounding board - none of my friends have children and my SIL had three dream babies by the sounds of things so it really helps to speak to people who are going through it too.

@notetaker - glad it made him happier! We are gonna do that soon but
I'm clinging on to the lie-down pram for as long as I can squeeze her into it as I can't face possibly losing the naps!

Most things I have read suggest this period is something to be got through. But then they also suggested it should last up to six weeks and we're 2.5 months and counting, so I'm not one to give advice At the beginning I was trying to not feed her much more overnight than I would have pre-regression (by trying not to feed within three hours of the last feed), which supposedly can help avoid them getting used to lots of extra feeds that persist beyond the regression. But that quickly fell by the wayside as it is by far the quickest way to calm her down and we just couldn't face extended periods of pacing and shhing in the middle of the night.

What I would say is, maybe mark in your calendar a date after which you want to try to proactively tackle this - for us it was six weeks from the start. After that point then we started thinking about things like getting her to sleep independently, obsessing over naps etc. But some babies supposedly sort it out themselves after just a few weeks, so we decided to postpone the hassle initially in case that was us (clearly, it was not )

Hi everyone. Hope the weekend might bring a bit of a rest for you all - or, at least, a change! The last few nights DH has slept in the spare room so I can try different things when DD wakes without disturbing him. (He does hold her 9pm-12am so I can get a head start on sleep, and then take her for another hour or so first thing, he’s not just abdicating!) I managed to pat and shh and wriggle her back to sleep in her cot a few times so didn’t have to sit up and switch on the light for a feed every hour, which was encouraging. She was a bit more lively (and loud...) again last night but turning her on her side and patting her bum did the trick. I use a kind of heartbeat pat, in case anyone else wants to give that a try! I’m never sure how quickly to intervene, though. I think it’s good to give her a moment or two to settle herself, but it usually escalates very quickly as is them harder to calm her so I have to go back to boob.

From what I understand, the ‘regression’ happens when their sleep cycles change, so they have phases of lighter sleep and wake at the end of each cycle. It’s a sort of protective, survival thing - ‘am I still safe to keep sleeping?’ So if something has changed from when they fell asleep - boob has gone, they’re in the cot instead of your arms, etc - it signals ‘not safe’. So the falling asleep independently wherever you want them to stay for the night is key if they’re not linking cycles. Much easier said than done...!! So, really encouraging from @crazychemist that this won’t last forever!

I do think there’s so much going on for them at the moment - they can see as far as we can, in colour now. (We have a wilful pram and sling refuser too - she just wants to see out! So like @notetaker we’ve also moved to the toddler seat.) I don’t think it’s a coincidence that our very alert babies are struggling to sleep at this time. They’re so aware of the world but they can’t yet act in it. It must be maddening! They’re starting to explore their bodies, but they can’t yet move as they’d want to. I hope once they’re rolling easily and able to sit it’ll ease. Though then we’ll have crawling...

@Etherealhedgehog Your idea of splitting the bedtime feed as a starting point towards moving it sounds good. Sorry you’ve had such challenges with sickness and unsettledness. I have read that around this time there can be a bit of a ‘crisis’ in breastfeeding as, again, babies are so much more alert and distractible. They’ll grow into their new brains, I’m sure, and it’ll pass!

@BerthaYoung my MIL said last week that it must be so boring to be a baby, but I bet it’s the opposite! Everything’s so new and exciting to them - what’s going on inside those little bodies is amazing really. Just a shame it has an impact on their sleep...

DS was awake every hour between midnight and 6.30am last night but only up twice for milk, so I’ll take that as a positive. I managed to get him back off with a dummy/shhing/patting combo the rest of the time, and considering dropping the side of the next to me crib so at least I can do all of that without having to sit up and lean in.
Absolutely in awe of you breastfeeding mamas!

Hi All, I just wanted to say that this thread brought me comfort when I was waking every hour last night!

We're experiencing so much of what you all describe - constant waking in the night (I resort to picking DD up in the end and rocking her to calm her down and get her back to sleep), short daytime naps (only on me) etc. It feels like a switch was flicked just as she turned 4 mo!

I'm going to try and be more consistent with her naps in the daytime, trying the tips you've laid out @crazychemist . Failed during her first nap just now as she was overtired I think so resorted to a cuddle, just about to put her down...

Hey all. We're well into 2 months of this horrid sleep regression. It's really getting me down, and affecting my marriage too. My DS keeps waking up all night and I've tried everything. He's nearly 6 months and currently rocked to sleep but nothing else works. I understand it's a sleep association but I've tried shushing and patting etc and he doesn't like it.

Naps are hard too as he only sleepS in his cot with white noise etc and has to be rocked every time.

I cry everyday and have asked the HV and GP for help and advice. There doesn't seem to be anything medically wrong but he's just a terrible sleeper and can't settle.

@SKA86 I'm afraid I don't have any great words of advice but just wanted to say that we're also 2+ months in (turning 6 months this week) and sleep is still terrible, so you are not alone. Big hand hold - it really sucks. Especially if you know mothers of babies similar age who were right there with you at the beginning then saw improvement just a couple of weeks later (I know a few of these). Have you seen much change since it started or not really? We've had very gradual improvement in some things - like a reduction in early evening wake-ups and very occasional nights with only 2 night wakings instead of the usual 4+. But it's gradual enough that I wouldn't know if I wasn't keeping track of her sleep (use Huckleberry), and I have a love hate relationship with that - on the worst days I tend to give up on the tracking, it's better not to know!

We're currently experimenting with earlier bedtime and fiddling a bit with the nap schedule...no change yet but will report back if it helps!

Various things I have read suggest that there are developmental changes around six months which can help them get better at this so maybe they'll turn a corner soon? Do what you can to take care of yourself in the meantime (we got into the habit of treating ourselves to McDonald's breakfast after the worst nights...thank god she only naps on long walks in the pram or I wouldn't be fitting any of my clothes!)

@Etherealhedgehog thank you for your lovely support and advice. I know I'm not the only one going through this but can't help feeling so isolated.

I also use the huckleberry app. I've tried different nap and bedtimes too. His naps were a bit all over the place today and his last nap was too early so I decided to put him to bed earlier at 6.30 instead of 7.30. So far he is unsettled but he also has a bit of a stuffy nose and may be a little constipated so not sure if that's making it worse. I use a humidifier at night.

I'm really hoping things improve soon. We have to put him in bed with us when things get too much as I'm in and out log bed the whole night and hubby is working so it's really hard for him, though he does try and help when he can

@Etherealhedgehog forgot to add, he has some rare good days where he might wake up 3 times instead of every hour so that proves that he can connect sleep cycles and he sucks his thumb. I just don't know why he doesn't do this every time?!

Pleeeeeeeaase can I join?!?

Im so relieved to read these posts!

DD is now 4 months and has never been a wonderful sleeper, probably best stint we've had overnight was 3 hours and that isn't often. Naps are horrendous unless in the sling and in which case, on a good day, she can do 3 hours but usually between 30-60 mins.
Naps in the house are minimal and always on me. I can get her down in our bed but she wakes after probably 10-15 minutes 😭 it takes longer to get her to sleep than the actual sleep and it just doesn't seem like the effort is worth it
I am feeding to sleep overnight and the feeds are virtually hourly overnight. Well tbh they're not even feeds.. she latches, feeds for about 20 seconds then just comfort sucks herself to sleep. I can get her to sleep in no time but it's stressing me out that she's doing this and I am struggling to break the habit. She is waking and searching for me in the night with her mouth wide open, if she doesn't get what she wants she will protest - loudly 😢

I can't even begin to get my head around the fact she should be at the point of self soothing to sleep. She is worlds away from that at the moment and I'm really concerned I'm doing this all wrong.

Utmost sympathies to all you ladies going through this, it's a very tough time and I am
Keeping everything crossed we come out of the other side with chilled, sleep loving, babies 🤞🏻

@SKA86 oof, every hour is so hard - DD only does that occasionally and it always nearly kills me.

She's also very variable ,- we're lucky that she has at least one 3 hr stretch and maybe one 2.5 most nights (much of the longest stretch coinciding with when we're still awake though) so she can connect cycles sometimes, just seems to find it hard. Earlier on in the regression she actually got back to having one stretch of six hours but that is long gone again - and I definitely don't understand what makes her sleep better some nights and not others.

The thing that is saving me atm is being able to hand her over to DP at 6am every day so I can get a bit of a baby free lie-in - I've taken to dealing with 90% of night wakings so that he has enough energy to get up at that time every day. Is there any way you could manage something like that? (I know we're very lucky that he is currently WFH and doesn't have a too early start, which makes it possible).

@talla @TangBloodyFastic welcome to the club! (Waves from third wake up of the night). Isn't it funny how familiar everyone's experiences sound (maybe funny is the wrong word...) @TangBloodyFastic I just tried to pop DD off 70(!) mins into a feed and she did exactly that eyes-closed-mouth-open flailing frantic searching that you describe, so here I still am

@Etherealhedgehog it's so hard isn't it? I think it would be much easier, in my case at least, if at that point I could shove a dummy in but she point blank refuses 🙄

Does anyone else have an issue with congestion? DD is struggling every night!! I've tried humidifier, snuffle babe ointment, saline spray.. nothing works to stop it? It wakes her up all the time even cot elevated doesn't stop it, Daytimes are no issue.

@Etherealhedgehog being like a complete zombie I didn't take in your message properly..... 70 minutes?!? 😭😭😭 that's some going, is she dropping off throughout? I saw somewhere that putting them down sideways stops them waking up as they're going down - works for us, shame she wakes up anyway prob 10 mins later anyway once down 😴

Sleep needed - that last sentence doesn't even make sense

Just to say “hi” to everyone from the depths of the night! DD has been up for an hour 😬 We did have a few nights of 2 hour stretches so I was feeling hopeful but she’s much more difficult to settle now for some reason.

Those with the wide-mouthed babies - apparently if you press under their chin as soon as they come off it suppresses that sucking reflex. Commiserations - I know how maddening it is to have them ping awake again! 😖

Hi from the next wake up! She actually woke up a while ago but got herself back to sleep (or lay in silence for an hour!? I'll never know ) so I'll take that as my victory of the night!

@TangBloodyFastic no suggestions for congestion in afraid, that sounds rubbish. And commiserations on the dummy refusal - we've got one like that too. Such a shame, I was really hoping it might help cot naps in particular.

The 70 mins was my fault really - I can usually pop her off earlier even if she's still suckling but sometimes find I totally zone out and lose track of time (I think/hope not asleep ). It's so frustrating as she's probably using up half her next sleep window lying on me, but my eyeballs just can't take constant phone browsing, which is the only thing that keeps me alert.

Re. the side sleeping - she's actually recently started pulling herself onto her side as soon as we put her down and sleeping that way, which I desperately hope is a first step to eventual self settling!?

Thanks for the tip @BerthaYoung - I'll try it! Hope you managed to get her back down again

i have found my people! 🙌🏼 Hope everyone that is awake is doing ok? DD had her 3rd set of jabs last week and we're a couple of weeks into the regression. From what i can remember it lasted up until i started weaning last time with DS @Etherealhedgehog i'm exactly the same re not wanting to look at a screen all the time/dozing off. I quite often wake up with a stiff neck from falling asleep while she's feeding