Waiting it out

[burritofan]

Is anyone else following the extremely vague and lazy "wait it out and hope it spontaneously resolves itself, maybe solids/crawling/walking/time/eventual night-weaning/magic/bribery once she can talk or be reasoned with" baby sleep plan?

We're nipple-deep in the four-month regression, which followed fast from the 8-week-jabs endless night poo era, then the 12-week hourly waking growth spurt. Throw early teething,

a late tongue tie division and a crap reaction to 16-week jabs into the mix – all in the same week! Which is when she migrated from Snuzpod to sleeping in my armpit – and you get a shitstorm of night wakings, my solution to which is:

plonk baby (now 21 weeks) in bed with me each night – after first making comatose with boob after rock-solid bedtime routine – and reapply boob as needed. Sometimes sleepily snuggling works in the middle of the night. Sometimes she wakes, babbles, pats around to check I'm there, and resettles. (Rare as a unanimous AIBU? thread, but like sunshine when it happens!)

Sometimes we start the night with a 3-hour chunk, other times 45 minutes. Some nights she wakes up only 4 times, others what feels like 4,000. Very little crying unless more teeth/colds, in which case howling then calpol and boob and a lie-in if she grants it. (I know the advice is to wake at the same time each day but (a) the baby wakes herself at the crack of dawn most days and when she doesn't (b) if she was up for two hours howling because of her teeth, I'm not going to enforce a wake-up for the sake of some Gina Ford nonsense.)

The 45-minute wake-ups are guaranteed if I put her down in her sidecar crib now, or even if leave the room – sometimes she wakes straight away if I try to swap with DP. Even in deep sleep she has a batlike sense for my being in the room. She generally starts the night starfished on the bed; as the night goes on she gets more unsettled and likes my armpit to snuggle into best. Perhaps it's the woolly mammoth furriness?

She's not great at feeding lying down but I'm persevering because I'm lazy. Occasionally I attempt the pull-off thing of putting my finger in her mouth to delatch once she's asleep but I'm too knackered to do it consistently or time it to gradually reduce feeds, I think I'm doing it in a half-hearted "gosh I really should sort this sleep thing". Mostly I do it so I can go to sleep if I'm feeding sitting up. I've no idea how to shhhh-pat; PUPD seems like an awful lot of effort with a heavy baby when I could be lying down, and deeply confusing; gradual chair or whatever makes me want to weep with exhaustion more than the current situation; CC or CIO is neverrrrrrr going to happen. On the other hand, I have wistful recollections of evenings, of my lovely DP, of times when I ate dinner somewhere other than over a snoozing baby's head in the dark...

Basically is anyone else doing what I'm doing to improve their baby's sleep, i.e. not very much at all, and wants to commiserate while we ride it out, slash create bad habits, construct towering Jengas of rods for backs, build sleep crutches, and generally arse it up? Any experienced "totally winged it and it worked out fine" mothers want to share delightful stories of "Oh one day he just pushed the boob away, fell asleep and did 12 hours and it's been a fairytale ever since, I got my bed and my sex life back" lazy parenting magic?

DP & I are softies who plan on an open-door policy of "if the kid can't sleep because of nightmares or growing pains, come on in our bed, they're only little", have fond memories of childhood shenanigans of sleeping on the landing or sneaking down to see what the grown-ups are doing, BUT also have no interest in "giant floor bed co-sleeping til 20" and quite like each other and the idea of the kid in her own room eventually, it would be nice to have some hope.

::rambles on in a sleep-deprived manner while teething DD snores on my shoulder, preps coffee machine for tomorrow, hopes there are other chaotic parents out there doing the absolute least::

Very pleased to have raised a smile! You'll get there and you will feel like an actual human being again too, just slightly bruised maybe.

Hey all fellow sleep deprived xxx I have found the beginning of a solution for my dd and thought I would share in case it helps anyone else xxx so at the end of August dm bought an owl from Aldi that plays twinkle little star and after the first few days of excitement over a new toy I kept it just for bedtime xxx I pressed the music button everytime I was trying to get her to sleep and now we are at the point where 50% of the time when she stirs if I press the button she settles back off xxx hope this helps you xxx of course we still cosleep but it means I'm getting a little bit more sleep xxx

I swear mine is getting worse, not better. 7 times last night, woke me up for 4 of them. It would have been 5 but I went to bed late in the hope of avoiding a wake up. No such luck.

Shortest stretch 30 minutes, otherwise every hour. There was a stretch of 2 hours when I went to bed and I couldn’t bloody get to sleep because of an argument with my partner who is being a massive arsehole.

Urgh. Why?

Lo all. Just checking in. Been trying to get DS2 to sleep for the past two and a half hours. He had his third set of jabs yesterday so attributing this fresh level of hell to those. My back is screaming from bouncing and swaying most of the day and no expectation of any respite this evening. This. Is. Hard. While I remember DS1 being a shocking sleeper, I’d forgotten just how utterly exhausting it is to get a baby to sleep. And also the fact that you just have to suck it up and do what it takes until the job is done - you can’t just stop because you are beyond tired. Finding that hard right now.

Hope you are all managing at least some sleep. Sorry to hear about your rough night lambdroid. I hope things with DP are a bit better now?

Hey @bottomflannel 2 and a half hours, ouch, well done you. Sorry to hear jabs have made things harder. I'm not even thinking about the next one yet! DP said the other night he doesn't mind if DS is an only child now

We're actually doing better at the moment. 4 hours at beginning of night then wakes every 2 hours. The thing that's getting me down is, I put him to bed but cannot leave the room because he'll wake 30 mins later.. Every time!

I know they shouldn't be alone to sleep for the first 6 months but the bedroom is right next door (in a flat) and im going mad lying in bed at 7.30 every night. I can't take him in living room cus he wakes and the other night I put him down(won't let DP put him to bed) and DP laid next to him and he still woke up after 30 mins and wanted boob! I just want some kind of evening back. Not that I want to do it, but how do people move young babies to their own rooms?! I don't see it ever happening.

Oh @bottomflannel that sounds awful. You describe the feeling very well, of having no choice but to soldier on despite burning back muscles, aching shoulders and the rest..

I dropped off the thread for a while as it has all been kicking off here with DD's sleep, to the extent that we are now "trying something" (hope I'm still allowed on the thread!!).. DH is doing bedtime after the last feed and the whole night shift up til 5am for the next six nights. We're hoping to break the feed to sleep association. I just can't take it anymore. The last few nights has been 2-3 hours of comfort feeding to sleep while she bites, scratches, twiddles, pinches etc - not sure how to convey how frustrating and actually painful it has been. It's just impossible now, we're all miserable. If she would feed calmly to sleep I could continue for a lot longer but the long bedtime battle, whilst being basically beaten up and then repeat two or three times a night is just too much. Plus she's not enjoying it anyway.

So I'm hiding downstairs trying not to listen to her screaming for me while DH settles her. He's fantastic with her and I know she's just angry and confused, and being comforted all the while. So why do I feel like I'm being so mean? Am I being mean? We've left her with grandparents before on nights out occasionally until 4am and she's been intermittently grumbly but overall totally fine so it's not a new experience to go without mum or milk for that long (she's 13 months). I guess I've just never had to sit through it before :( any and all sympathy, encouragement, advice welcome.. this is tough!

Wishing everyone a good, restful and cuddly night :)

I too have tried something, and it seems... better?? I've made a new rod for my back!! But I'll have to deal with it another day, as it means she actually sleeps in her cot again!!

I've taken down one side of her cot and tied the single bed (that I've been sleeping on in her nursery since day one) to it. I call it 'the co-cot'. It means I can cuddle up to her when she starts getting restless. It means last night she only woke me up 5 times but I only had to feed her twice! The rest of the time, my cuddling up to her was enough!!!!!! (She's 6 months).

I hope I'm still allowed on here to moan about shit sleep!!!

Thanks, @bottomflannel - he’s stopped being such a massive twat. Just being a minor twat now!

@Whuut - I started putting my first to bed upstairs at probably 12 weeks, whenever he stopped just sleeping through anything and everything. He was in his own room with the door open from 6 months. I never stayed in the room while he was sleeping until I went to bed, just checked on him every now and then. He started sleeping much better in his own room!

This one has been going to bed alone since maybe 8 weeks. I don’t use blankets for them at night, so nothing for them to wriggle under etc. I don’t really understand the need to constantly watch peacefully sleeping babies as long as they’re safe and being checked on.

Slightly better here too! I got 2 hours, then 1.5, 45 mins and another hour .

That’s not right. There was another hour at the beginning.

She did sleep better though. Got a couple of 3 hour stretches in there, just...not while I was in bed!

I lied. It didn't work last night... only the better on did. But we too managed a three hour stretch when I kicked dh out of our bed and co-slept in there.

Fingers crossed it's just teething!! (For the last two months of hell).

Whuut Extreme same, Welcome to my life. She wakes up every time, usually within 5-15 minutes. She's almost six months, low risk for SIDs, I feel ready to cope with the sleep deprivation of going to bed at 9pm instead of 7pm, but here we are. We don't have a room to transition her to until we move, which I imagine will unsettle her, so… in with us til she's 18 it is!

walkwalk Not only are you still allowed on the thread but you have to stay, we all have to stay FOREVER or until the last baby sleeps through. Them's the rules, I don't make them up. Watching with interest as I have no idea how to night wean when the time comes and when I go back to work I'd love to split nights with DP. Good luck, hope it works.

physicskate I love the co-cot! I wish we had room in our room. Some nights the cuddling works for us, some nights it's boob only. Last night is a blur but I know there was what felt like a long stint of me half-dozing, half-cuddling DD. Hope it continues to sometimes work for you!

Personally I could fashion a beautiful artisan crib out of all the rods for my own back I've made. Feeding to sleep and all through the night, co-sleeping, cuddles, kisses. But as the weather has suddenly turned chillier I've realised I've also got a snuggly little human hot water bottle, which makes up for having to have the duvet at half-mast.

She's also teething again, I think – her wake-ups are VERY screamy, she's back to screaming in sleep (so infuriating when she sleeps for 2.5 hours but wakes me up several times during it!), cranky in daytime and got the same dribble rash and other symptoms as last time – which means DP has had to do his Special Dance to get her to sleep as she won't feed to sleep the last couple of nights.

I love the Special Dance because:

I am lying down, doing nothing
There is no room in the room for it, so there's a lot of Patrick Swayze hip wriggling to manoeuvre around the bed and chest of drawers
It's a rod for someone else's back!
Bodes well for the future that he can put her to bed too
Again, I'm lying down doing nothing

PS walkwalk you're not mean. She's not in distress, you're not locking the door and leaving her until morning. She's with a parent who loves her, and she's complaining because the routine is changing. I promise, with all my lack of knowledge and experience in the matter, that it will be fine. We were all night weaned once :)

And also the fact that you just have to suck it up and do what it takes until the job is done - you can’t just stop because you are beyond tired. Finding that hard right now.
God. Yes. This. When you just want to pull the pillow over your head and sleeeeeeep. Or eat dinner while it's warm. Or have a bath. Or do anything but bounce the sodding baby. (I am bouncing a baby right. She was almost feeding to sleep for a nap but bloody DP kept walking in and stage whispering DO YOU NEED ANYTHING while I furiously shushed but it was too late.) The 16-week jabs were absolute hell for us too, and took a week to get back on track (track being 2-3 hour stretches, so a shit track). Wishing you a sit-down soon, bottom.

@lambdroid we've had a bedtime routine since 6 weeks but at that point I was so tired I would just go to sleep with him. I'm now wanting to spend some time with my DP in the evenings but can't. Literally can't. If I leave the room he wakes up crying within half an hour, sometimes within 5 minutes like yours @burritofan It's so frustrating. How do you change it? He's asleep, I just don't understand how I could help him stay asleep.

Do you think it would make a difference in a completely different room? Tbh, I don't want to move him to a different room just wish I could have something of an evening that isn't laid next to him quietly snacking, drinking and staying silently still at first sight of any movement of fear he's going to wake!

@physicskate we have a cot in our room with the side down, it's pretty much flush with the bed but as of about 3 weeks ago DS refuses to go in it for more than 45 minutes. He wouldn't always go in it before but mostly. This means DP has now been kicked out to the sofa because being squished between a big, loud, snoring man and a tiny, flailing, noisy baby means I pretty much don't sleep at all.

@Whuut - even though it goes against advice, I ended up getting a Sleepyhead (well, cheaper version) because mine seems to like being quite snug, but I had to stop swaddling her at 12 weeks because she started rolling, and while she sleeps well all snuggled up to me, I don't!

I don't take her out of it now, just slide the whole thing out of the snuzpod to feed, then slide her back again. It definitely helped with the whole 'wake up as soon as you leave the room' nonsense. We do still get that sometimes, but I tend to then get her up straight away and try bedtime again half an hour later.

The own room thing depends on the baby (I'll accept my award for 'most obvious statement ever' now, thanks). My first really improved when we moved him at 6 months because I think my partner and I were just disturbing him every time we came into the room or did anything.

This time around, my partner is still sleeping in the spare room and unfortunately, I don't think it's noise disturbing this one. She's just incapable of sleeping for a long stretch bloody ever.

Do you use white noise? That made a huge difference to us too- having the MyHummy on basically full volume right next to her head. Then she can't hear me sneaking out! I actually carry it around with me as where as my first would sleep anywhere, this one seems to be easily disturbed/overstimulated and won't usually just crash out anywhere.

@lambdroid Thanks, I did look in to a sleepy head type thing but thought it would just be another thing i spent money on that doesnt work. I used to use white noise but didn't think it made much of a difference so stopped. Maybe I'll start again as he likes when I shush very loudly. He's only 3 months so still young, I just want to have an evening back at some point!! Gonna keep trying.. wish me luck

Thanks so much @burritofan and promise I won't leave! Last night was pretty gruelling, she cried from 9ish til midnight :( then up crying again at 4am for half an hour. DH brought her into me around 5 as we had arranged and she was conked out, I actually poked her a bit to get her feeding as my boobs were going to explode otherwise!!

She was confused and a bit boob-territorial but mostly her normal self this morning. Tonight has been grim from the start though, she's up there screaming away now and I'm trying reeeeally hard to ignore it and stay distracted. This is the only time off I've had in over a year and I can't relax arrggggh . Should have just booked into a hotel haha..

Also I'm a bit worried that we'll get to the end of our six week trial and she's just going to demand boob from me at night as per usual don't really know what to expect...

@Whuut we had the same thing with constant up and down all evening and white noise did help a bit but not a miracle cure for us unfortunately. Def worth a try if you're not using already!

Good luck again everyone tonight :)

Ah, evenings. ::wistful face:: Currently hunched like Gollum in the dark over DD who keeps nodding off but not going into deep sleep mode. And occasionally singing. Been at it over an hour, surely at some point they should be so full of milk they explode?

Things that have woken her this evening: her own comedy fart noise (I should hire her out to parties, Foley sound engineers, etc). The white noise getting muffled (I dropped them sat on my phone). Me trying to prise my pyjama sleeve from her mouth. DP bringing me dinner. Me eating dinner.

This morning I had a massive, massive crying jag after she just wouldn't nap all morning and by the time she did nap, in the sling on me still in my pyjamas, it was too late to get to the one baby group that keeps me sane. So we marched around the park instead, me sniffling behind giant sunglasses... whereupon I got into conversation with a woman who was admiring DD's adorable head poking up from my cagoule and it turns out SHE has a 5-month-old too, only hers was at her mum's and had been all night because she's bloody slept through since 8 weeks and can be babysat. This woman not only has evenings, she has nights out! I had to eat a peanut butter and peanut M&M brownie just to get over the unfairness of it all.

(I would have eaten this anyway, I'm on the three-cakes-a-day diet to survive the sleep dep, but I might have enjoyed it more.)

Is there a 5-month sleep regression?

I saw this and thought of you lot.

Regarding the SleepThiefDiet™ ( @burritofan 2019) yesterday I ate vrtually inothing except fatty carbs - churros, soft pretzels and pizza. Today I was going to eat better but DS decided naps are for losers and mummy must watch all my failed- attempts at crawling.

@Whuut - I was like that, but got so desperate I bought ALL THE THINGS.

My first was awful until 12 weeks, then magically started doing long stretches so there’s hope for you yet! We did have other bad patches, but the start was the worst.

This one is the other way around. She was amazing and only waking twice a night until 14 weeks, then it all went wrong. Argh!

Hi OP. We may possibly be neighbours! We went for the vague wait it out option. It took 2 and a half years, but it did happen in the end. Most of the time.

Thanks all for the laughs. @burritofan you reminded me, earlier I got DS to sleep in my arms and when I tried to put him down, my baggy top got caught under him and I ended up waking him with my swift 'table cloth pull away' trick.. It didn't work, he just looked at me like 'why the fuck did you just roll me across the bed when I was sleeping peacefully.'

@lambdroid Not gonna lie, after I read your reply I ended up bidding on a sleepyhead on eBay. I lost. Just like every other battle so far. May keep trying tho.

Saying all of that, I may have to go join a 7-7 unicorn baby thread soon. My boy just slept 3 hours straight, WITHOUT me in the room. Wahhhooo. He pretty much didn't nap all day tho and just woke up for boob so maybe ill be with you guys for a while.

The 16-week injections are evil. Poor DS2 is really struggling - he had them four days ago, but it seems to have hit him the past couple of days. Could be teeth related too though I guess, as he’s very dribbly. He’s been grumpy most of the time, has had his usual short naps but at 4.30 he conked out on my lap, woke up for a bit more milk and is still asleep now. He’s got quite a lump where one of the injections went in and feels a bit hot, so going to take his temperature when he wakes and dose him up. Poor thing :(

I tried a Sleepyhead and no luck so will be selling mine on. Must stop trying to buy my way out of the crap sleep situation - you think I’d know better after nothing worked with my first... Wait, tell a lie, the Woombie did help a bit. But swaddling a no go for DS2 as he started rolling at 15 weeks.

Well done baby Whuut - more and longer stretches for your mummy please! I laughed out loud at the response to the table cloth trick, but I’m sure it wasn’t funny at the time.

burrito Big hugs. Sorry you missed your group. Typical that you’d meet the owner of an angel baby on a day you’re already feeling shitty. It’s the same when I meet up with my nct lot. All perfect sleepers. I’m the only second timer and the only one struggling. Makes me feel like I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing.

walkwalk Hugs to you too. Really hope tonight is less hellish for you all.

@bottomflannel oh no bless him, hope he feels better soon! Ah yes, well I had to laugh other wise I would have cried, the look on his face was pretty funny tho. I have a woombie, it worked for a bit but it got to the point he'd wake at about 4, frustrated and just wanting to get be free. I think I'm going to try a sleepyhead in a last attempt.

Thanks @Whuut - hoping today is better. Very unsettled night from 1am on and is now talking to himself while I lay with my eyes closed until 7am, which is when I take him downstairs for the day.

If I didn’t need to recover as much of the cost as poss (not sure what they go for on eBay but it’s barely been used) ) I’d lend it to you to see if you have any luck with it.

Hope you all had better nights

@burritofan I haven't read the whole thread (it's very long!) but I have read your posts and it made me think of when DD1 was small. Your DD sounds very similar to my DD1 and I found it really hard work. I couldn't do the cry it out either and instead waited for it to resolve itself. It took a while - I won't lie - but it did eventually resolve. She's a teenager now and sleeps very well 😁 However, as a child she was always very good about bedtime, we never had the "I need a wee/ drink of water / getting out of bed again" shenanigans. And I think that was partly because we did wait it out. DD2 was similar but easier, and became the sort of toddler / child who would say "go to bed now" because she recognised when she was tired. You might like the book "What Mothers Do" by Naomi Stadlen. The chapter "So tired I could die" resonated with me 😂