Waiting it out

[burritofan]

Is anyone else following the extremely vague and lazy "wait it out and hope it spontaneously resolves itself, maybe solids/crawling/walking/time/eventual night-weaning/magic/bribery once she can talk or be reasoned with" baby sleep plan?

We're nipple-deep in the four-month regression, which followed fast from the 8-week-jabs endless night poo era, then the 12-week hourly waking growth spurt. Throw early teething,
a late tongue tie division and a crap reaction to 16-week jabs into the mix – all in the same week! Which is when she migrated from Snuzpod to sleeping in my armpit – and you get a shitstorm of night wakings, my solution to which is:

plonk baby (now 21 weeks) in bed with me each night – after first making comatose with boob after rock-solid bedtime routine – and reapply boob as needed. Sometimes sleepily snuggling works in the middle of the night. Sometimes she wakes, babbles, pats around to check I'm there, and resettles. (Rare as a unanimous AIBU? thread, but like sunshine when it happens!)

Sometimes we start the night with a 3-hour chunk, other times 45 minutes. Some nights she wakes up only 4 times, others what feels like 4,000. Very little crying unless more teeth/colds, in which case howling then calpol and boob and a lie-in if she grants it. (I know the advice is to wake at the same time each day but (a) the baby wakes herself at the crack of dawn most days and when she doesn't (b) if she was up for two hours howling because of her teeth, I'm not going to enforce a wake-up for the sake of some Gina Ford nonsense.)

The 45-minute wake-ups are guaranteed if I put her down in her sidecar crib now, or even if leave the room – sometimes she wakes straight away if I try to swap with DP. Even in deep sleep she has a batlike sense for my being in the room. She generally starts the night starfished on the bed; as the night goes on she gets more unsettled and likes my armpit to snuggle into best. Perhaps it's the woolly mammoth furriness?

She's not great at feeding lying down but I'm persevering because I'm lazy. Occasionally I attempt the pull-off thing of putting my finger in her mouth to delatch once she's asleep but I'm too knackered to do it consistently or time it to gradually reduce feeds, I think I'm doing it in a half-hearted "gosh I really should sort this sleep thing". Mostly I do it so I can go to sleep if I'm feeding sitting up. I've no idea how to shhhh-pat; PUPD seems like an awful lot of effort with a heavy baby when I could be lying down, and deeply confusing; gradual chair or whatever makes me want to weep with exhaustion more than the current situation; CC or CIO is neverrrrrrr going to happen. On the other hand, I have wistful recollections of evenings, of my lovely DP, of times when I ate dinner somewhere other than over a snoozing baby's head in the dark...

Basically is anyone else doing what I'm doing to improve their baby's sleep, i.e. not very much at all, and wants to commiserate while we ride it out, slash create bad habits, construct towering Jengas of rods for backs, build sleep crutches, and generally arse it up? Any experienced "totally winged it and it worked out fine" mothers want to share delightful stories of "Oh one day he just pushed the boob away, fell asleep and did 12 hours and it's been a fairytale ever since, I got my bed and my sex life back" lazy parenting magic?

DP & I are softies who plan on an open-door policy of "if the kid can't sleep because of nightmares or growing pains, come on in our bed, they're only little", have fond memories of childhood shenanigans of sleeping on the landing or sneaking down to see what the grown-ups are doing, BUT also have no interest in "giant floor bed co-sleeping til 20" and quite like each other and the idea of the kid in her own room eventually, it would be nice to have some hope.

::rambles on in a sleep-deprived manner while teething DD snores on my shoulder, preps coffee machine for tomorrow, hopes there are other chaotic parents out there doing the absolute least::

[vickkiMommy]

Now that I've read everything and not just the op xxx I too have chosen the path of least resistance xxx for me the 6 month thing was a myth xxxthe sleep thing is fits and starts here recently we have a 2am-4/5am party where she wakes and gets put on the floor with her toys so that she's not climbing all over me for 2-3 hours xxx for my fellow blessed bussoms have you tried a sleep bra I have found it stops the top one from smothercating my DD in the night xxx I have found we get better sleep mid week when we go to baby group and therefore she tires herself out that bit more xxx still holding my bladder with my poorly baby asleep on my chest xxx might see if I can reach the spare pillow and sleep sat up tonight xxx

[lambdroid]

Jumping on the shit sleeper bandwagon!

My now 28 week old has been a nightmare for pretty much 14 weeks solid (bar about three days where there was a 5 hour stretch, the little tease). We're currently in a good phase, which means 5-7 wakeups a night and the odd 2 hour stretch, though they're mostly still just over an hour. Currently also skipping the hour or more away at 4am playing with her toes, thank fuck.

I also have a 2 year old, have ended up working despite the fact that I'm supposed to be on maternity leave, do 4 out of 7 double bedtimes by myself, and have had basically the most stressful 6 months ever. I am not having fun!

I'm so sick of people telling me it'll be better when:

-She's on solids (she is, 3 meals a day and it's not helping)
-She can sit up and is using more energy (she is. Not helping)
-She has a bottle of formula before bed (won't take a bottle, won't drink formula)
-She's sleeping in her own room (she doesn't have one to go into since our house move fell though)
-Hell freezes over (holding out for this one; thanks, global warming)

Aaaargh. I also can't cosleep. I just...don't sleep, so now have her in a sleepyhead type thing- I don't even take her out, just drag the whole thing out of the snuzpod, feed her in that and slide her back.

I haven't driven since June. More aaaaargh!

[physicskate]

And now... after sleeping in her cot since two months old and going down easily (just not staying asleep for more than an hour or two), my 6 and a bit month old wakes up after 30 seconds and will. Not. Sleep in it.

I've now given up officially. Fuck bedtimes. Fuck crying. Shush shush pat pat just winds her up more. It seems like I provide her no comfort (only my boobs do that, but she's so full she just vomits if I keep feeding and feeding). I feel like I'm failing. It really is upsetting me that I can't get her to sleep and when she does (oh this fleeting minutes), it's only in her bouncer, which she is quickly growing out of.

It seems only my husband can get her to sleep, but he's taken to fucking off for large chunks of the day during the weekend or doesn't get home until at least 6pm during the week.

[physicskate]

@lambdroid - all of those things are utter bollocks. She does have three meals a day (made our issue worse seemingly). She can sit up. She now loves her jumperoo so is burning loads of energy in that. She won't take a bottle either.

She's so fucking overtired (as am I), but there seems to be no way of breaking the cycle.

[BeFire]

Definitely a wait-it-outer...DS is nearly 5...still waiting, still hoping it will sort it self out .
As long as we all get some sleep I don't care enough to attempt any other approach though.

[Whuut]

Oh god, sorry that you're all going through it too. Nice to know I'm not alone tho.

I've heard all those things and thought maybe it'll change then but I've given up trying to work it out now. Accepting that it's shit and that's just the way it is has actually helped me, I spent so long trying to work out what was going on that I didn't enjoy him enough. Now I'm just fucking shattered 24/7 but have so much more fun with him-when I'm not contemplating running away to somewhere sunny that is.

We managed an hour and a half nap today!! But if the boob was any further than 2cm from his face, eyes shot open.

[Whuut]

@physicskate That sucks, why's he getting to fuck off? And yes to the shush shush pat pat. It wakes him up more if anything and he just goes mad.

[lambdroid]

@physicskate - pretty much!

Mine does nap, but not usually in the pushchair or car. Only a darkened room will do, which is really fucking difficult when it’s every hour and a half/two hours max and I have a 2 year old who desperately needs to be out.

I’ve taken to letting her cry herself to sleep during the day because me being there seems to make it worse, which I hate so much but genuinely seems the kindest thing for her (and the worst for me!).

And the 2 year old (only 2 in June!!!) is now officially skipping his naps. Fml.

[physicskate]

@Whuut I guess he's just better at dealing with guilt? Maybe he has none?

I get it. He works hard. But he's done all of three fucking nights in her life. And I gave up my teaching career to go through ivf. I know it doesn't have to be like this as I was a nanny for two under the age of two for a year!! He's better at protecting himself than I am. But I can feel myself resenting them both. It's not good. Not good at all.

I think my trouble is that I'm still sort of looking for a solution??

[woblob]

john glad I'm not the only tandem feeder here. How old is your DD? Mine is 3 in 5 weeks and I'm soooooooo done with breastfeeding her!

kate that sounds awful. It's not bad you're looking for a solution, and I wish I could give you one, but if the situation you're in right now isn't working for the whole family then it's not wrong to want to change it.

I wish I was chilled out enough, or 'woman enough' to just co-sleep and feed my boy whenever he wants through the night, but I have no family (or other) support around, a husband who is out of the house 11 hours a day, and full time solo care of DD (almost 3) and DS (the sleepless 7.5m old), and life is just really, really unpleasant when I'm awake every hour in the night. We had a few night last week of only 3 wakeups between 8pm and 6.30am and the difference I felt was incredible. Last night was an absolute fucking car crash though, and tonight is looking like it'll be the same. (He went down at 7.55 and has already had one wakeup where he screamed for 45 minutes because I refused to feed him. Then fed him to sleep anyway 😒) I was so looking forward to doing Christmas drinks with friends in December and I know hats a long way off but I just can't see how that's going to happen to be honest. I've not had an evening out- with my husband, solo or with friends, in a year, and it's making me quite sad.

[JohnLapsleyParlabane]

@woblob big one will be 4 next month and little one is 6m. If we have a third I reckon I'll be looking at 10 solid years of breastfeeding. Which makes me think a third may not be the right choice

I have no more pyjamas because DS has vomited milky snot on me so many times in the last few days, plus needed to be within 3inches of my boobs at all times , that I haven't even managed to wash any. On the up side, he shat into DH's hand not mine mid-nappy-change today so it's not all bad..

[darceybussell]

Can I join in? DS is 14 months. I've tried all the gentle methods and I was textbook at putting him down awake. And it made no difference whatsoever. I don't want to do controlled crying because I'm pretty sure it's going to involve hours of crying, which I just can't face and frankly I don't have the energy for. I'm back at work, I cannot be up for 2 hours in the middle of the night trying to do controlled crying.

So here we are. I've gone from trying everything to involuntarily ending up waiting it out. He feeds to sleep and there is no pattern whatsoever. Some nights he might only be up once (hooray!), if he's teething he will be up every hour. I suppose a 'normal' night he will be up about 4 times. Every so often he will do well for a week or so and I'll think we are getting there, and then it all goes to pot again.

I feel like I'm going to be feeding him in the night forever!

[burritofan]

physicskate I don’t blame you for looking for a solution in your case; I’m not for DD as I think the wait-it-out approach suits her and us, and I’m getting enough sleep, but it doesn’t sound as though you or your baby are. I’m officially pissed off at your husband on your behalf.

He works hard all week? SO DO YOU. And he (presumably) gets some nice commute time for solo brain space; a lunch break to eat in peace; can drink his cups of tea warm; has his evenings whereas you're knackered and on boob duty, etc... Where is he disappearing to for chunks at the weekend? What’s the agreement? For what it’s worth I think for the first year – at LEAST – of parenting, if you have a crap sleeper, neither of you get the privilege of free/me time at weekends. Plenty of time for that when they’re toddlers – one of you takes it to the park, the other has free time, the rest of the weekend is chores and family time. But in Survival Year, no. He shouldn’t be disappearing at all, unless it’s to the supermarket, to the kitchen to batch cook, or the washing machine. Or taking the baby out in the pram/sling even if she screams, to give you a break. Each parent gets one lie in: you because you do nights, him because he works. No fucking off allowed. I want to brain him with a rattle.

Also: you are not failing!

lambdroid I hate it when people tell me “sleep improves when XYZ”. It’s so child-dependent! It’s like saying “my child crawled/teethed/talked at however many months”, like, and? Unless the babies are giving each other handover notes, it’s irrelevant. Until, as you say, hell freezes over. At which point DD will probably wake up needing a higher tog sleeping bag. And a feed, because why not.

darceybussell Welcome! We have coffee. It sounds like you’re near the end of the tunnel if you have the occasional night of only one wake up? I like to think sleeping through is a slow, gradual process rather than a “ding! Oh, that’s what this cot is for” lightbulb moment. Keep doing nothing, you’re almost there!

The last two nights were crap, as they always are when DP rooms in with us and heffalumps around the bed, snoring and thrashing, but – I’m an idiot – when he took the baby at around 1am (she’d just fed to sleep, slept for ten minutes, then woke up bleating for milk and I got frustrated) I couldn’t sleep because I missed them both. After she came back (chanting "milk! milk! milk!") she slept for a two-hour stretch cuddling me, which was glorious. Then it was back to the hourly yelling. I do think she's teething again though.

And now I have another day of my in-laws to get through. Yesterday they called my five-month-old daughter a “little madam” (haaaaate), “reassured” me she would slim down once she started crawling, announced "she doesn't talk much" – well, no, being 22 weeks old and everything – and played the should-be-illegal "she needs to be sleeping alone by now or she’ll be in your bed forever” card. (A) if she’s in there forever that’s down to her personality not my parenting and (B) SHE’S FIVE MONTHS OLD. JohnLapsley, tips on getting her to poo into MIL’s hand?

[Whuut]

@physicskate That's really tough. You are in this together, you're the one who had to physically go through everything but now he needs to do his part in this tough bit. I totally get you with the resentment, I started to feel it too, my DP hasn't put DS to bed once but I just felt like this was the path I chose because I wanted to breastfeed. I had a bit of a meltdown the other day and was just saying why the fuck are you (dp) getting to go out all the time, see your friends, sleep through if you want, whilst im here co sleeping, breastfeeding and waking every bloody hour trying to do the best for DS.. Whats the point? I sometimes think maybe it would've been easier to just bottle feed and cry it out Woblob is right though, if its not working for you don't feel bad for wanting to change it.

Welcome @darceybussell grab some matchsticks for your eyes.

@woblob I've too been hoping for a night out in December with friends but at this rate there's no chance.

[lambdroid]

I’m on the resentment team too.

My partner has been sleeping in the spare room as our 2 year old was in hospital when the new one was born and was very unsettled after so he was dealing with him. He’s been there 6 months now and the toddler is mostly sleeping though!

I find I can cope when he takes the baby away at 6ish and I stay in bed by myself with no pressure for an hour or so, but this morning he spent 20 minutes dicking around and making tea and cereal (because he can’t possibly do that and hold the baby) so I couldn’t get back to sleep.

I’m going out today. 8 glorious hours. He’s managed 5 without me before while I’ve been working so I’m sure they’ll survive somehow.

[burritofan]

this morning he spent 20 minutes dicking around and making tea and cereal (because he can’t possibly do that and hold the baby) so I couldn’t get back to sleep.
Omigod. This. My day for a lie-in: DP stares at his phone for 20 minutes, moans and groans, has to be nagged out of bed. Lumbers off for a wee that also somehow takes 20 minutes. I end up doing the first nappy of the day so she doesn't wet the bed while we wait and wait and wait. When I get up later, he hasn't eaten and I end up making breakfast for us both so then we're behind all day because DP could be showering while I'm having breakfast; the baby is still in her vest with cold legs.

His day for a lie-in: I grab the baby and skedaddle with a nappy and some clothes for her. Somehow achieve the impossible and wee, brush teeth, make coffee and toast and look after the baby. It's a miracle! DP gets up and showers then I shower, we get the show on the road.

[bottomflannel]

Welcome new joiners and to physicskate.

We’re still in ‘learning to roll’ hell here, but to be fair to DS, he did pretty well last night by our standards. Still woke up all night but didn’t need holding until about 2.30-3ish - and I think that was only because I disturbed him by moving him off his front, as he is constantly rolling now. Even slept a bit on his front while DH was watching over him but I’m too scared to let him sleep on his front while I’m asleep as our mattress isn’t very firm. I think I’m going to have to bite the bullet when he masters rolling both ways and put the side up on the cot and just hope he settles better in there when he can get himself comfortable. Would rather not be cosleeping full time when he’s really rolling/crawling...

burrito ‘Little madam’?!?! That would give me the rage too. I often think how lovely it would be to have DH back in bed at night with DS2 and I, but reading your posts has made me think again!

Argh, gotta dash, DS waking up from boob-induced coma, otherwise known as nap number one of four. Catch up more later. Have a good day, all.

[AliCanTea]

I have one of these DPs too! Somehow 1 of his hours is worth approx 4 of mine. How did that happen? If he takes DD for a couple of hours in the morning, he feels entitled to do the fucking-off-for-hours-at-the-weekend (always doing something useful mind you - he has to pick up a car for a friend, or ask the bank about business start ups, or insert useful task that I can’t really argue with) and his weekend away with friends translates into my 1 hour massage

Wow I didn’t know I was so grumpy about this.

Before I start veering this thread into AIBU territory, DD did sleep a bit better last night (only 4 wake ups...!) I think because I tried her with the white noise OFF. So that MyHummy was well worth the money. Thank you health visitors 👍

[Whuut]

Hahaha have we all got the same DP?! As soon as mine takes the baby it's like can you get me this and that cus I've got DS like I don't manage to shit, piss, eat and sleep with him on me all day every day.. Yes dear, here's your tea and toast cus you've had the baby on you for 5 minutes. And oh god the long wee in the morning when he's meant to be giving me a lie in. DS is only 3 months and refuses a bottle so an hour in the morning is about all I get to myself.

We slept okay last night, about 6 wake ups but no 3am party which was nice, just feeds and back to sleep. Hope everyone has a good day!

[lambdroid]

@AliCanTea - if it’s any consolation, I couldn’t live without our MyHummy so it was worth a go! We had a cheaper one that turned off, but mine woke up every time it stopped. I think she’s really easily overstimulated so it just blanks out all background noise.

Only slight problem is I can’t sleep without it now.
Hmm.

[physicskate]

By fucking off, I mean going upstairs to have a two hour afternoon nap and then listening to the football (despite hearing the crying and desperation downstairs). Or going on social media for a few hours.

To be fair, he caught me crying during her 'bedtime' last night and sent me away at about 8. She fell asleep after 9 in her bouncer downstairs. I then wasn't woken until she needed a feed at 2. She then coslept with him, and he did only wake me when she needed a feed (nothing else settled her at 430 and 6). Weirdly, she woke up again at 7, saw he was there and fell back asleep. I've always slept in the nursery next to her cot, so I don't understand this at all).

I'm being unreasonable about my dh here. He does do a lot for us (lots of cooking because I spend hours trying to settle her and he's a super fussy eater, some laundry, etc...). He's just never helped with bedtime or overnight in the past. He generally gets up with her on the weekends and lets me have an hour lie-in sat AnD Sunday. He is more of a lark than I am. That's his contribution to childcare, but he does more than his fair share of lots of other housework...

[DoveGreylove]

I'd like to join you all!

Currently nap trapped so can't write much but I am exhausted. My 12 week old wakes multiple times in the night and I generally have to co sleep as I'm so so tired of getting up to soothe her or feed her. Husband sleeps on the sofa now as she disturbs us so much but it means I'm doing 100% of the work.

I feel so lost and our routine is so messy. I do t know how to fix it. It's reassuring to know I'm not alone!!

[burritofan]

physicskate Ah, I see. Well, if it feels like fucking off to you, I would still try to change it. We all need time off – I use my paltry allowance of it to sleep – but hours and hours of social media, or football when there's crying happening, seems like a big luxury to me that you're not being afforded.

It is hard to share the nights when you're breastfeeding. DP will take our daughter if she won't settle right after a feed, and she'll sleep a bit for him, but what she wants is boob boob boob or occasionally an armpit snuggle from me. There's no scheduled dreamfeed or 5am feed or any pattern to it where we can agree to hand her over.

My MIL excelled herself yesterday by telling me she wouldn't stand for this sort of thing and would just put the babies in their own room so they could cry themselves to sleep. I thought, yes, and that (among many other issues) is why your son wants very little to do with you.

Anyway. I am knackered today and feeling a bit "my baby is going to be the only baby in history who never sleeps through, even if we're defining sleeping through as five hours". I would kill for five hours.

[IsItBiggerThanTheBoxItsIn]

I am currently in bed with my 18 month old having bf to sleep for the first time in 4 months because we're away and she was not going to sleep any other way. MIL clearly disapproves but it's her fault toddler was rabid with excitement.

At this point I feel my boobs are magical and it's fine but my past posts are testament to how hard I tried to resist the inevitable....co-sleeping and bf to sleep for the first 14 months; a 4 hour block of sleep pure bliss. Only thing I would change looking back is embracing co-sleeping sooner and not beating myself up for having a terrible sleeper that needed bf so frequently at night. You are definately my people!

Since 14 months DD often starts the night in her bed then migrates into ours usually before midnight like a homing ferret. No night feeds anymore though but I occasionally get whacked around the head with her water cup as she chucks it out the way. I smother my laughter in the pillows when she clonks DH with it, I know he does the same.

She slept through for the first time at 16 months. DH and I couldn't sleep and got about 2 hours but almost as though she knew she hasn't repeated the experience unless wedged between us feet in DHs neck and arm slung over my face or star fishing like a pro.

Its hell when you're in the thick of it but I am chilling in the wait it out camp. It felt natural to co-sleep and bf so much to my surprise here we still are. Bugger of it is that I cant sleep till my little limpet comes marching in wailing with teddy clamped firmly under one arm and brandishing water cup threateningly in the other. It's worth the odd black eye anyway (genuinely gone to work with baby related black eyes twice so far!). At least she doesn't bite much.

[burritofan]

Since 14 months DD often starts the night in her bed then migrates into ours usually before midnight like a homing ferret. No night feeds anymore though but I occasionally get whacked around the head with her water cup as she chucks it out the way. I smother my laughter in the pillows when she clonks DH with it, I know he does the same.
Thank you for my first sleep-related laugh in forever. This scenario honestly sounds like bliss from where I'm standing. If we end up with a similar outcome and I can claw back an hour or two to myself each evening AND get my bed to myself up until midnight, I think I'd consider it a win. Double-win if DP gets the first black eye.