Sleep is for the weak part four, we're officially hardcore.

[gingerninja]

Yes ladies we've got a shiny new thread to share our woes of chronic sleep deprivation, to hail all that is gloreous when something works and throw our arms in the air when it all goes wrong again.

One bad night doesn't impress us, we're awake more than we sleep cos we is 'ard I tell ya.

EVening all. Well DS went to sleep without a whisper of a whimper tonight - perhaps something to do with having had no sleep btw 3.30 and 8.30 [bad mummy emoticon]. Anyway fingers crossed he'll wake after dawn (see, I have a sense of humour too).

Bags - so sorry for your swaddling woes, and I know what you mean about the nursery thing. I've miraculously managed to get my DS to sleep all week without being swaddled; not quite sure how it happened - I think it was because I was picking him up and putting him down so often that somehow it seemed easier without the blanket. Anyway good luck with weaning yours off the swaddling.

Hope you all have relatively peaceful nights.

Loving your funny babies!

And like the eat more chocolate approach . My little one is a complete wriggly fidget when going to sleep (especially if a bit hungry). I have been known to hold her legs down while she goes to sleep but I think you just have to let her wriggle sometimes... I do now but maybe could have earlier.

I do pride myself on my positivity (apart from one week a month ) but it is hard. Much easier with dh off work. I feel responsible somehow. But he is glad we don't let her cry.

I have a billion theories ('excuses'):
teething, dummy makes her sleep lightly, ear infections?, missing mummy/daddy, too much daytime sleep/too little, hungry, processing info (she is very advanced for her age ), not firm enough, wanting to come into bed, habit, nappy rash, um...

really I just think she is a naturally light sleeper (maybe due to dummy?) and things affect her sleep rather than her during the day. She is the most sunniest, happiest, content baby we know so I am inclined to think that it isn't so wrong iykwim.

Average night
bedtime 7-8ish, wake maybe half hour later or maybe 10.30-11ish. Usually goes straight back to sleep after a cuddle or reassurance and lying back down. Then the classics, 3ish, 5ish... (even when in with me, although sometimes I don't really notice). Wakes about 9ish. I do wonder if I was consistent she would lose the 'habit' but its hard when you are knackered (and love her sleeping with her arms round my neck ).

Aw, just read the later posts. must stay positive!!

I too always Have a Plan and bend dh's ear about my latest theory and what I will try next... But he is doing it too now after last night of doing it All Himself . Its nice he can see that she has improved even though she still wakes up.

Yes, I agree that its ok to be sad sometimes. It is an emotion our little ones do need to learn to manage (or you end up all screwed up never allowing yourself to be miserable ), I just want to a) know what she is sad about if poss and b) be there

(PS has anyone noticed that the babies all wake up at the same times... does this not seem a bit, well, like something 'normal' babies do then??)

mummymagic, i talk to a lot of mums at breastfeeding dropins, and it quite often seems that babies will do a long stretch when they first go to bed, and then start to wake up often as you creep into the early hours of the morning. i think that seems about right for me anyway.
the only advice i have for them is GO TO BED EARLY!

mummy magic your dd and my ds have virtually the same pattern of waking so perhaps we could put them into bed together and we might get some sleep

Mummymagic very much in love with the idea of arms around my neck going to sleep.When we co-sleep my dd clings onto my arm and I love it. We have been trying to wean her off co-sleeping though and I have to admit I realy miss her.

I love all your theories. Most are well used excuses in our house but some new ones to try out too. My DD follows a similar wake pattern too and I think Amber is spot on with the solid sleep early on and broken thereon in.

Well, we had an ALMOST sleep through last night. It was my shift and DD hadn't stired at all before my bed. She slept until 3 despite a massive firework display and PA system blaring out at the local park. I popped her dummy in and retreated back to my own bed. She did cry out again but by the time I got to her door she'd settled herself. Stayed that way until 4.50 when she was up for the day . What an improvement/fluke. I didn't really sleep after 3 tho as I was on tenterhooks waiting for her to shout again! typical.

Hope you all had good nights

ginger so for you. what an improvement. now you need to train yourself to sleep through the night!
Your determination will pay off. I guarantee you in another few weeks she'll be going all night with little to no attention. well done.

We're having a little success too. Ds only had one bottle last night at 3.30.

went to bed at 8-3.30 (bot) then up at 7 for the day
he wanted milk at 1ish again but i said no. he moaned at me for a few minutes then let it go. If we keep this up maybe he'lldrop teh night feeds altogether

Ginger and Tam - great progress .
Sounds like the hard work you've each been putting in is paying off. So glad.

Not so good here. Caved in re swaddling. Had as many wake-ups as usual. Had a full on screaming fit 5, with DD not wanting to be put down, but to sleep in my arms. We had an hour of pick-up, put down, before she gave up at 6. Felt like a bit of a sh*t afterwards actually.

Having a weekend of "DD does what she likes" whilst I steel myself for A Plan next week .

Have lovely days everyone!

bags ds did what he wanted until about a year! infact he still does really in that we co-sleep but the milk thing had to stop.
Your dd is only tiny and you're doing a fantastic job so give yourself a pat on the back for all the wonderful things you do for her and enjoy your 'go with the flow' weekend

Well, I don't know where it went wrong

Dream bedtime at 7.30 (a little earlier than usual). Awake briefly at 8ish. Then she woke sobbing at 10 and found it very hard to get back to sleep (althugh she was trying). Could be ill -who knows? Got to sleep but woudldn't let me leave. Was trying desperately to get her in cot (dh tried too but same. Although obviously by then she didn't want to sleep in the cot anymore.) See she is smart. She knows that the easiest way for her to sleep when she is having difficulties is to sleep with us, so in her head that's what she wants? (and hmmm, makes sense to me).

Well, dh and I then had a huge row about how I won't let her cry and she'll never learn to go to sleep, she'll be in our bed til she's 7 yadda yadd yadda. So much for the support. I think he's right that I have let her 'give up' trying to sleep alone in her cot. But I wonder if its an impossible task. And its me standing there all flipping night. And I wish he'd just have faith in me that I know how to be a mum to our child.

So we eventually agreed that we would give her a consistent message - she sleeps in her cot all night. haven;t quite worked out the Plan but I am relieved that we have a clear plan instead of me just doing it and getting stressed cos I can see dh unhappy. Although he still doesn't have any faith in me.

So I sobbed and sobbed last night because the thought of not sleeping with her anymore breaks my heart. I think she belongs with me. She did have a rubbish night with me though, fidgety, crying (v unusual). So either she's ill (yawn) or she knows she has to get me used to the idea. I hope she will be able to sleep with us in the future once she stops 'expecting it'.

Steeling myself for a fun night and all a bit less positive. And not enjoying the idea of getting up at stupid o clock every day like everyone else I know (and to me that is before 8am).

Once I am less tired I am sure the positivity wil be back . Need reassurance that its ok for her to do a 'second-best' and sleep in her cot and I am not abandoning her but teaching her a new skill...

Mummymagic sorry that your night went a bit pear-shaped and that it causes tension with DH. At least my DH is as soft as me so no pressure to let DS cry.

Our night wasn't too awful, a few wakings in the evening but managed to keep him in the cot til about 1. After that he was fine in with me, fed just once after 1 as far as I can remember, but then very restless from 6ish onwards. I knew last night that co-sleeping was the only solution for us at the moment, because he kept scratching and scratching his arms and legs, and the only way I could stop him was by literally pinning him down til he settled. If he wasn't in bed with me then I would have been awake and bending over the cot all night. And it's not like I can teach him not to scratch.

Ginger really pleased you had such a good night. I'm hoping that DS' eczema starts to get better soon and we can make some progress in that direction.

I should have said morning to Bags and Tam as well...

Bags, an hour of pu/pd is soul destroying. Not suprised you feel bad. I tried it for one week at about 4 months and it distressed us all so much I vowed not to do it again. Have you tried sleepig lo on her side? That is the only thing that would settle my DD, she's never liked sleeping on her back. We used to have a blanket rolled up and wedged in front and one behind and she slept much better. I don't think they can flail so much.

Tam, great progress. Once the night feeds have stopped it is easier in the sense that you don't have to actually get up if you're co-sleeping, just a quick pat might be all it'll take.

Mummymagic, I've been in the exact same situation so many times. I've had countless arguments with DH who believed that my bringing her into bed was the route cause of our problems. Thing is, if she wasn't there I'd get heart palpatations and couldn't sleep. I agree, I needed her there. I have (reluctantly at first) been breaking the habit. For about a week or two (can't remember) we haven't taken her out of her room just settled her in her cot. (for the first few days we used a matress on the floor and slept with her) Then we progressed to the cot and when she's mega grumpy we get her out and cuddle her putting her back when shes asleep. We've moved the matress next to the cot and hold hands through the bars. It has been tough but she has definately slept better last night being an unprecedented 7.5 hrs in one go. Have you thought about getting her into a bed and starting off by sleeping with her in her room gradually moving out when you're more comfortable about leaving her?

Tam, well done, sounds like you are getting there.

Bags - i found pick up put down to be totally soul destroying. i really wanted it to work, but i couldn't see it through.

mummy magic, sorry you had a tough night, but glad there is a plan in place.

your poor scratching LO Meg.

for your almost sleep through ginger! yippee.

ps. i have to say since my LO started sleeping on his tummy i think he does sleep deeper. i can go into his room and do stuff and he doesn't wake up unless i'm REALLY loud. so hang in there bags, maybe LO will prefer tummy sleeping.

Woudl agreee that once they start rolling onto side/tummy to sleep things do improve.

We had a row over sleep as well last night - DH saying I go in too quickly, as soon as DS hears me he wants milk etc. (all prob true!). I think any rows in the first 2 years, esp if you're having sleep problems, shouldn't count .

Moxed night for us, long stretch at the beginning (I was out for a drink with friends and he didn't stir till about 11!) then usual 2-hr brief wakings. Might try and get DH to do the 10/11pm settling as well - not sure he is actually hungry again by this point. Ah well, will see how it goes.

Ginger: think I mentioned that I'm 'logging' DS's nights once a week only - kind of the same principle as weighing yourself once a week when on a diet! Hopefully will see gradual progress...

Tam: sounds like great progress!

Ginger: all your hard work is paying off - well done

All the rest of us with mixed nights, hang on in there!

oh yeah, we had a good night - one waking at 3.45, then back until 7.45. that is a sleep in!

ginger yey!!

tam, you too honey!!!

bags sorry for your night it will get better

mummymagic for your night too, dont give up, it will happen. about row with dh

meg, i'm lucky in that dp doesnt do crying either

hi amber!!!!!

our night the same as the one before.... bed, boob at 4am, work at 7.30am

x posted EP. i quite agree, rows in the first 2 years don't count

for your night amber

just dropped dh to airport, ds asleep, have coffee >

h tam, sounds heavenly wheres dh off to, anywhere nice? i'm at work atm here til 3ish

He's gone to manchester for a chill out weekend
We take it in turns to go back and see friends etc. Only when he goes it's alot cheaper as he'll stay anywhere (within reason) whereas i'll only stay at the lowry hotel . Too old/tired for staying in shit hotels!

is your mum looking after dd or is dp at home today?

dont blame you my love!!
dp off now for the summer so he's got dd. feel a bit bad tho as he's looking really down. he wont talk about his dad tho, so i cant do too much except dole out the cuddles and be there when he does wnat to talk. have said he should go out tonight, i know he needs it to let off steam.
supposed to be doing a fundraiser with work tomorrow, but think i'm going to cancel. he needs me more atm.........sorry for waffling, just sounding it out to myself i guess

if dp needs you more then you should def cancel. Dh laso mulls things over onhis own for a few days/week before we talk about whatever it is that's wrong. I've learnt over th eyears to give him his space and trust he'll talk when he's ready.

At 18 i would have badgered him to death and caused more problems! [blsuh]