Sleep is for the weak part four, we're officially hardcore.

[gingerninja]

Yes ladies we've got a shiny new thread to share our woes of chronic sleep deprivation, to hail all that is gloreous when something works and throw our arms in the air when it all goes wrong again.

One bad night doesn't impress us, we're awake more than we sleep cos we is 'ard I tell ya.

hi all

amber........you know where the door is.........
.....only kidding!!! am super duper chuffed for ya my love.........yey for amber jnr!!!xxxx

one waking for us, 4am for boob then slept til 7.30am i had 5 1/2hrs in bed on my own

bags, fil is very tired, i guess thats normal, it must be such a huge shock to the body. not allowing visitors atm, apart from mil of course.

ginger, you're not alone. i got a cob on this a.m as dd fell asleep then woke as soon as i put her in her cot. had been walking her around for ages and back is killing me atm, so lost it a bit and brought her downstairs to plonk her into dps arms. we're only human love and 3+ hours for you last night was a looonnng time

ooh sorry, and a big welcome to mummy magic

MrsTH and Tam thanks for that, duh

hi to meggy, EP, and any other cool cats hanging around

Hiya Tibs, glad you had a good night.

Following chat with DH about my worries over DS getting too used to co-sleeping, we now have A Plan for DS' sleep. Until we move, DH will stay on the sofa and DS will come in with me whenever I get tired of shushing him in the cot. After we've moved (hopefully by the end of August) DS will have his own room so the cot will go in there, and we will make a real go of getting him to sleep in his cot all or at least most of the night (a la Ginger). By that time he will be over 6 months and on some solids hopefully, and may not need feeding at night as much, in which case DH and I can take turns spending the night in his room while the other gets the bed. At the same time I will ditch the dummy (not really using it that much at the moment anyway) and try GW/GR to help him settle himself.

Of course none of this may work and he may still be in our bed all night by Christmas... but I always feel better when I've got a Plan!

Meg that is exactly what was happening with us. One of the reasons we decided to try and stop co-sleeping beause I was having to go to bed at 9 just so she'd settle. I don't know what the answer is. My DD has got easier to settle in the evening now she doesn't expect to get up but she's still waking and we're finding that we're having to keep contact with her by a hand through the bars of the cot or something so I'm sure co-sleeping whould actually be easier! I think it's going to take time. I just hope me and DH are still sane (and together) by the end of it. I'm sure tougher parents and CC advocates would be appauled at these shenanigans but it's a gentle loooong slow process. I think your plan is a good one.

DH took over last night and bless him he's shattered today and doesn't respond very well to me badgering for information about wakings. I want an idea just so I know if there is an improvement or not. ANyway, I know she woke at 1.30 because I heard her and then we were all up for the day at about 5 ish. So no real improvements. It's so demoralising when you think something's working and then it doesn't. I just can't fathom the wakings. It'd be different if she just woke briefly but it's a full on screaming sesh followed by not being able to sleep afterwards. DO they get nightmares at 11 months do you think?

ginger ds did that at around 11 months and the only reason i know he did was because I remember looking up to see what age night terrors start at. It only lasted for a few weeks. I can't fathom the wakings either as ds goes back to sleep witin minutes and it can't separation anxiety as he's usually glued to my face!

meg, that sounds like a good plan. and youre right, it does make you feel better to think that youve got some direction. i cant wait til dd can go into her own bed. am convinced that there will be great things happening with regard to sleep then

hi tam and ginger i guess our bubbas just love us so much, they want to be with us 24 hours a day...........cant think of any other valid reason atm

Hi Tibs

Tibs that must be it, it's our brilliant mothering skills that means our babies don't want to sleep and miss anything

Afternoon all,

I have really lost my mummy mojo today . I have been trying to get DD to nap without swaddling, and it is not happening.

I will not have her going to nursery swaddled! I'm sure they'd do it, but it's become a point of principle with me. Besides, the swaddling has to stop sometime, so it's as good a time as any.

DD is in the cot now. She's really tired, but she is playing with her toes through the grobag. I don't know what to do......eat more chocolate I suppose .

Thanks for listening .

bags, sorry you lost your mummy mojo. I'm sure you'll get it back tomorrow.

my LO has been lovely today actually - lucky me, must be all that sleep. i'm sure we're in for a horror of a day tomorrow.

in cute stuff news, he started signing 'milk'. i am sooooo in lurrrve. i'm glad that is his first sign.

also, i love seeing our little LO avatars at the side of the blog where it lists the comments, it is just so cute!

have added tibs' wonderful info on complementary therapies, check it out. if anyone has other ideas for pages, links, book reviews etc, let me know.

xx

Bags sorry you are having a tough day, hope LO had that nap in the end! I'm sure she will soon get used to life after swaddling.

evening all, dd gone to bed, so thought i'd jump on the computer quickly before ds wants a turn

bags, so sorry your mummy mojo has done a bunk today. am sure it'll return, youre a fab mummy you know xxxx i'm sure lo will adjust to life A.S (after swaddling) hang on in there darling and keep stuffing in the choccie

amber - it's so nice when they get it isnt it? especially when you see how pleased they are that you actually understand what theyre 'saying'....i was just thinking that re. the bubba avatars!!!! great minds and all that!!

meggy, 'brilliant mothering skills' is damn right sister!!!! ......we will show our beloved lo's this thread and the blog when theyre old enough and they will see and feel the pain we went through to get them to sleep!!!

i hope everyone has a lovely evening and sleeptastic night (esp. bags) xx

ps wheres cupcakemummy???? dont tell me shes joined the land of the sleeping lo?...........nooooooooooooooooo

i think LO was making a joke this evening. before his bath we were playing on the bed and he kept making the milk sign. i offered him milk but he refused. i put him back down and he kept making the sign and started laughing hysterically! funny little monster. at least he has a good sense of humour.

i know, i miss cupcake's haikus too.

dd starts laughing for no apparent reason sometimes......maybe she's telling herself a joke gotta love these bubbas!!!

cupcakemummy where are you?????????

oh well better go, ds is wanting to get on the computer. night all xxxx

Hey there, thanks for your messages. What a fab thread - and how lovely to hear people going 'yeah, its hard isn't it' and not 'well, she isn't going to learn without crying/ME being consistent'. (FWIW she doesn't usually cry before going to sleep and i don't see why she should have to. I don't ) We do have a very big bed already!

Dh is only struggling because he has to go to work and get up at 6am! He is actually really supportive (and now is on school hols is perfectly happy to go with flow. Think he likes being the bohemian hippy relaxed parents...). He took her away yesterday to see a friend and she slept perfectly happy in the travel cot from 7.30 til 4 (when he went to the toilet, came back and she was just standing up in cot a bit confused) - he put her in the bed with him and she slept til 7.30 (even with light streaming through the window)!!!! Hmmm, maybe he should do bedtime. She didn't miss me for a second yesterday though - suppose it shows how secure she is.

Re milk at night: I waited til I knew she didn't need it (hard to explain, she had gone quite a long time without, was 'needing' it every hour etc) then when she came into the bed I would say 'no milk, have some water' and offer water in a bottle. I also tried diluting etc but that worked best. If she really moaned or couldn't get to sleep at all then I would give in (i have about a 10 second limit for crying ) but I figured she would be sad because she would be losing her milk/not getting what she wanted but she was right next to me so ok. We have had a lapse but as soon as I was firm again it is fine and she doesn't really have water either now. Tbh she was getting ridiculously addicted to milk - waking every hour just to have a sip and then go to sleep again . I don't have a problem with her having milk if she needs/wants it properly.

Thanks for your messages. Good luck all for tonight !

ds usually laughs at things that are ridiculously repetitive. like if you say the same thing over and over, he thinks it's hysterical.

good night tibs, hope the night is smooth.

thanks mummy magic. I tried it last night and it worked, he woke as per usual at 11.30 for his bottle and i said 'no milk, time for sleepies' but lifted him in beside us (as usual) he huffed and puffed for about 20 mins and signed for milk but no tears and then he lay down beside me and went to sleep. He woke again at 1.30 so i let him have this bottle this time as i'm happy for him to have 1 in the night while we wean him off. He drank all of it and then slept until 7 this morning. Big improvement i thought. Def better than the 2 or even 3 bottles he had been having.
amber so rewarding when they start signing isn't it

tam, it's lovely, and it happened quite quickly. i was surprised. i thought i would have to wait a few months, but i think it only took 3 or 4 weeks of consistent milk signing. i wonder when he'll get the next one and what it will be. we do milk, eat, nappy change, home, walk, sleep, bath. that's about it at the moment. probably enough to start.
i think the key is to be able to recognise when they are doing them and not just some random hand movement, as is usually the case!

Bags, love the 'eat more chocolate' approach. At least we know that approach works.

Amber, that is so adorable. Not suprised you're in love. My DD loves it when you say yesssssss as in Little Britain Scottish hotelier character. But then she gets quite hysterical when you drop pennies into a bowl no idea about that one.

Good for you mummymagic and your positivity. We need lots of that here. It's hard keeping your spirits up when you're so tired. What's an average night in your house and do you have any theories on why your DD wakes?

Well, sleep tight everyone.

note to self: must try pennies in bowl trick.

i love mummymagic's positivity too. i love how she says 'I figured she would be sad because she would be losing her milk/not getting what she wanted but she was right next to me so ok'.

it's totally right. sometimes we might have to accept that our LO's will get upset about the decisions we make, but we can support them through it so that it will be ok. it's like ginger's holding hands through the cot bars thing. she's upset that she can't sleep with mummy but ginger is there with her making her see that it is ok to be in cot by herself.

bags try not to worry. It happens to all of us it really does.

Meg i always feel better when we have a plan too. atm our plan is to wean slowly off the milk at night and then into big bed (on his own ) when we move house.

amber and ginger x posted.
Ginger i love the scottish hotelier character too!

amber well done for tackling way mroe signs than i did. ds only learnt milk, eat, sleep , sorry and please.
The next bit is even sweeter.....talking!

ds can now say juice, cheese, bus, mummy, daddy, down, up, ope(for open) and hiya!! (have tried to get him to say hello politely but insists on shouting hiya to every stranger we meet)

The pay off to no sleep is they are so frickin cute

Thanks for your kind words everyone!
I too am very much enjoying mummy magic's positive spin on things - it's very refreshing when compared to my normal doom-and-gloom world view.

All this talk of plans is very inspiring too .

DD is fully swaddled, dummy in . We will start again when I'm feeling better - am thinking Monday, when DH is at home, and we can deal with the stress together!

Hope all the LOs stay safely tucked up and soundly asleep .