I'm a WellVine baby sleep consultant - ask me anything!

[KateMumsnet]

Hello everyone

We thought we'd try something new this week, as part of our mission to make parents lives easier. With our remarkable powers of observation , we've noticed that lots of new parents struggle with getting their baby to sleep at one time or another. Even those who 'got away with' an easy-peasy newborn can find themselves staring, eyes drooping, at a sleepless little one, whether it's at four months, or six, or twelve; just when you think you've got this sleep thing nailed, something comes along which takes you right back to square one, and exhaustion.

So we've invited the folks at WellVine over for a baby sleep AMA. The WellVine app gets you personalised sleep advice from your own baby sleep consultant, who gets to know your baby's needs and helps you work through a personal sleep plan, all over video call. Genius, really - no ‘cry it out’, just gentle and supportive sleep advice from an expert, when and where you need it.

WellVine's sleep consultants will be hopping on and off the thread around their other duties over the next few days, so leave your questions about your baby's sleep needs here on the thread and they'll come back to you with their advice. Personal sleep plans are a bit beyond the scope of an AMA, but they'll do their best with all your other questions, so ask them anything (sleep-related)!

If you think you'd benefit from some one-to-one sessions or want to find out more, have a look at WellVine. We'll get a very small commission if you sign up, which will help to keep the lights on at MNHQ - but there's absolutely no pressure and the AMA is open to anyone who has a desperate sleep question (usual webchat rules apply).

@Eatmycheese

How do you get a baby to stop fighting sleep? He’s almost a year old. Is zombiefied and so am I. He was awake from 3pm until 11pm yesterday then from 1 am until 3 then awake since 6. It took until noon to get him down today. This is regardless of where he sleeps

This sounds exhausting for everyone. A few different factors to consider -

• Daytime naps can impact on night sleep significantly. At his age, ideally he would have 2 naps a day - morning and after lunch, with bedtime around 7pm. Some babies may have dropped a morning nap at this stage, in which case ideally he would do a longer nap at lunchtime.
• Wind down time at bedtime - a predictable, soothing lead up to bedtime in a calm atmosphere can help ease a child to sleep more easily.
• Reassurance - if your child is seeking reassurance then do this in a consistent way. Decide what form of reassurance is best for you and for your child- whether that be sitting in the room with him or popping in and out of the room and stick to it consistently which will keep his frustration levels to a minimum.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

Hi Maryanne,

My DD9 just seems to have insomnia!

She will stay awake until I go to bed, that is with no telly and books down at 8:00pm, she always claims she is not tired, even when she has to be up early for school 7:00am, I have evening out her in a swimming club which is twice a week 6:30-7:30 Tuesday and Wednesday , hoping this will get her in a routine but it has not worked!...please help...

My 6 month old goes to sleep fine (at about 8pm) wakes up a few times in the night for a breastfeed then goes back to sleep, but at about 5am starts getting really restless. It's as if he's asleep but won't stay still? He kicks and thrashes around so much that he ends up waking himself up and getting upset. My husband usually ends up putting him on his chest for the last hour of sleep before he wakes up for the day at 6:30. Is there a way to stop him doing this? Any possible reason why he is so restless?

He also still naps four times a day while seems like a lot but three of those are short naps of about 30 mins, and one longer one of 90 mins/2 hours. Is there a way to solidify naps or does it not matter how many naps he has if the total sleep time is still quite short?

@poppyseed1663

Hi Maryanne,

What a great AMA.
I have a 6month Old who goes to bed (a crib in our room) quickly at about 8pm and then wakes at 11pm, 2am, 4am and 5am. At 5 am I usually give in and let her sleep in our bed and she wakes about 7.30am.

Is there anything I can do to help her sleep through better? Do you think controlled crying, the pat method etc. might work?

Many thanks!

Hi there,

There are a few factors to consider here...

• Her daytime sleep can affect nighttime sleep so try to maximise daytime naps with a schedule of 2/3 naps a day

• Try shifting bedtime earlier as 8pm may be a bit late and while she is settling quickly at this time, it may be contributing factor to the night wake ups.

• Giving a consistent response to these multiple wake ups will help to keep her frustration levels to a minimum. Also consider whether bringing her into your bed at the 5am mark is a possible fuel for these other wake ups as if she is expecting this to be happening and it doesn't for the other wake ups, then she will keep waking until it does.

Hope that helps.

Maryanne

@Cathster

Hi Maryanne. I have a six month old and a three year old, in the last few months my three year old has been waking in the night and staying awake for hours, she says she can’t sleep.

She goes to sleep alone at bedtime, sometimes will sleep through til morning and other nights wakes around midnight until around 2/3am. We don’t know how to help her get back to sleep, lying with her doesn’t work nor does just leaving her. She’ll also cry on and off out of frustration as she wants to sleep.

Any advice? Thanks!

Hi there,

Have you established if there is anything specific which may be causing this wake up such as noise or light or needing to go to the toilet?

White noise can help mask background noise and transitioning between sleep cycles. Best time of white noise sound for sleep is a hair dryer or vacuum cleaner sound and the key to success for white noise is to keep it on throughout the night.

If she is waking at around the same time at night, you can try a technique called wake to sleep where you go to her around 20 minutes before she generally wakes and shift her slightly. This can help shift her sleep cycles, which allows her to transition straight into the next sleep cycle without full wakening.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

A "personalised baby sleep consultant"

Er....

Good grief.

@AlpineButterfly

Is it a case of power through and it'll always get better eventually?

I'm on my knees with 9mo ds2. Work evenings but he's bf and won't go down for the night without me

Hi there,

Some babies learn how to sleep eventually themselves and some may need some help along the way. There are different parenting styles and preferences and while powering through works for some, it may not work for others.

If you would like someone else to be able to feed the baby, you might want to consider expressing and having someone else give the baby a bottle at bedtime.

Encouraging a predictable and soothing bedtime routine, leading up to bedtime can go a long way to helping the baby feel settled and ready for sleep.

I hope this helps,.

Maryanne

Hi,

Hoping I’ve not missed the boat on this yet, but I’d like to second an answer to a question posed above.

I have a six month old baby who sleeps (thankfully) 6pm to 6.30am with no feeds and no wakings, but who will not nap more than 30 minutes in the day. White noise, car, holding, resetting with feeding, nothing works. She’s desperate for bed by 5pm usually as she’s so damn tired.

Can’t figure out how she can link sleep cycles at night but not in the day. She clearly needs it as she’s so fractious.

Any insight would be much appreciated!

Thanks

I have a 1 year old and 3 year old still co sleeping in my bed. How do I move them to sleep by themselves. My 3 year old still wakes ocassionally and moves next to me to get back to sleep still. Thanks

@tumtitum

Any tips on getting a sleep fighting nearly 3 year old to go to sleep on her own again at a decent time after a new sibling arrives? Since having a new baby 6 weeks ago DD insists on being cuddled to sleep or my partner has to sit in her room but it takes HOURS! She was previously ok at self settling (although was terrible as a baby!). Once asleep she either stays through or if she wakes she comes in with us and goes straight back to sleep. Thanks! :)

It sounds like you have a lot going on at bedtime! Consider using a gradual retreat approach, which involves you sitting in her room initially and using verbal and physical reassurance as necessary and over the course of a number of nights, as she gets more confident at settling to sleep, you input less and less and move your sitting position further away from the bed, until you are sitting outside her room.

Tell her in advance that you will be staying until she falls asleep as this will help her feel calmer, rather than staying on alert, in case you get up to leave.

She may just need this extra reassurance as her routine will have changed since the arrive of her new sibling.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@ohlittlepea

Hi, I have a 16 week old baby. What steps can I take to build a good sleep routine at thus age? Xx

What a lovely age! At this stage, my advice would be to try to avoid the baby getting overtired. So if the baby appears to get tired after an hour - hour and half of awake time, encourage the baby to settle for a nap rather than trying to keep him awake longer. The more rested a baby is during the day, the more settled they will be at night.

Setting up a series of cues that the baby will learn to recognise is also helpful - a short pre-nap routine, bedtime cues and morning cues.

A soothing and predictable bedtime routine at this age can also help a baby settle more calmly at bedtime.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@elmo1980

Hi Maryanne

My 5 month old doesn't nap for longer than 30 minutes.

He sleeps through the night between 9-11 hours which was the same with my first but i can't get him to have even one longer nap during the day.

He doesn't self settle, I feed him to sleep then give him a dummy to keep him going.

Any advice appreciated!
Thank you

This is very normal at this age and it is only around the 5-6 month mark that a more structured framework of naps emerges. 30 minutes is the average length of one sleep cycle for naps.

Timing of naps can impact on how long a baby sleeps for so try to start regulating naps to a 3 nap a day schedule - morning nap around 8:45/9am, lunchtime nap around 12,30/45 and late afternoon nap around 4pm.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@Jamb16

My daughter is nearly 11 months old, wakes at least 5 times from about 7pm until 6am when she wakes up for the day. The only thing that will get her to go back to sleep is breastfeeding, even if she was only fed less than an hour a go. She eats 3 meals and enough food during the day and only feeds two or three times during the day but during the night it feels like she is awake all the time. Have tried cuddling her, singing, stroking etc but she will just cry in her cot if she hasn’t just been fed and won’t give up and stop crying no matter how many times I go in and settle her. Hope you can help a sleep deprived mum! Thank you

It sounds like the feeding at night has become her association with sleep and while it works, in so far as it gets her back to sleep at the time, it may be the cause of her multiple wake ups. When she is transitioning between sleep cycles, she is waking fully in order to be fed back to sleep.

There are a few considerations if you are keen to move towards her settling to sleep without the feed. If you want to do it gradually, start reducing the length of each feed each night so she is taking less each time. You can then put her back in to the cot and reassure her back to sleep. Alternatively, if there is someone else who can go to her to when she wakes in the night, this may make it easier as her association with you is tied in with the feeds and sleep.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@Chardonnay73

Posting on behalf of my sister who is at her wits end... 2.5 year old, goes to sleep like a dream, then every night between 11-3am he wakes and is inconsolable. No amount of settling, controlled crying works. The only thing that does is taking him into their bed. They haven’t had an uninterrupted nights sleep since he was born! Any advice ? They are literally desperate!

That sounds exhausting for everyone. A few questions to consider - is he napping during the day? If so, this may be too long and happening too late which is impacting on his night sleep. Are they sitting or lying with him at bedtime to settle to sleep? If so, he may have this as his association with sleep so when he wakes in between sleep cycles in the night, he becomes fully awake and assumes he needs the same to get back to sleep.

If they are keen to address this, they can try using a process called gradual retreat, whereby they sit next to his bed to quietly reassure him until he goes back to sleep each time he wakes. Over a series of nights, move the seating position further and further from the side of the bed, until they are sitting just outside the doorway of the room.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@IncomingCannonFire

Why has my 2.5yo never slept through the night? Is it my poor parenting?

There is no such thing as poor parenting! Without knowing more details, it is difficult for me to assess what the sleep issue might be. It is worth considering if your child is sleeping for too long and too late during the day which is impacting on the night sleep. Also, if your child is reliant on you to facilitate their sleep from bedtime, this can cause wake ups during the night,, as they will need you to do the same during the night, as you did at bedtime.

Also try to establish a soothing, calm and predictable bedtime routine which can help improve quality of sleep during the night.

Maryanne

Hi Maryanne,

My third child is 9 months old and has gone from sleeping and nappying beautifully to waking in the middle of every afternoon nap having done a poo. She’s massively over tired and bedtimes have been a real struggle for her to settle. She’s now stopped pooing but is so used to it that she’s been unable to sleep. However this weekend she’s done a couple of days of really good daytime sleeps so I’m guessing it’ll be a few days before she catches up with herself? Is that right? Sadly though, as soon as she started the good daytime naps again she’s been inconsolable in the middle of the night. Crying for hours. She’s gone from one or no Freida and night to waking almost every 3 or 4 hours and I’ve been so tired that I’ve got her into bed with me. I have a brain injury and need to be careful I don’t get too overtired!

Whilst this has been going on my 3.5 year old middle child has been screaming the place down every bedtime. I think this is because she feels pushed out with the baby as I can’t do her bedtimes as baby refuses to take milk from anyone else, she’ll take a bottle but only from me and usually wants a BF afterwards as well.

Can you save me from drowning in this lack of sleep?!

@forwhatyouare

My DS slept through from birth (9pm to 7.30am), and then from 6/8 weeks, slept 12/14 hour stretches. He is still like this as an almost toddler.

I know I'm extremely lucky but is there a reason he skipped any waking or sleep regression, do you think? I have been occasionally worried in the early days. But health professionals have always shooed me away and told me to count my lucky stars 

It was incredibly difficult in the first few weeks because it was always drummed in to me to expect sleepless nights etc. You can imagine how scary it is for a new mum who's baby doesn't wake up when you thought they were suppose to!

Why did he never wake? Was his tummy just not very good at telling him he needs food? I'd try dream feeding but he's just get cross and go back to sleep straight away.

I can understand your concern, especially as we all expect disturbed nights with a baby. Babies also vary in their sleep patterns and fluctuations between light and deep sleep. For instance, some babies do well with a dreamfeed and for others, it can disturb their sleep patterns and it hinders more than helps.

So, if your baby was growing well and not waking for night feeds, I would not see a cause for concern. However as with any specific concerns, I would not hesitate to visit the GP.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@tinymeteor

Can you really 'teach' self soothing or is that just a developmental milestone they come to in their own time?

Both of mine have been rubbish self settlers that wake often, all night. DD1 took a dummy so that would help her switch off for naps and after night waking. DD2 (6mths) won't take dummies, hasn't found her thumb, doesn't have a comfort object she's taken to. So I've got nothing to work with but building routines, and so far that's done sod all. Help!

Some babies will learn how to self soothe and sleep themselves and for others, it is more of a learned skill.
There may be any number of reasons your baby is waking frequently at night. A few factors to consider are nap times and length during the day; bedtime routine; how and where she settles at bedtime which can set the scene for how she handles wake ups in the night.

At 6 months, work towards shaping her nap schedule into 3 naps a day - morning around 9am, lunchtime around12.30 and afternoon around 4pm. Aim for bedtime around 7pm and try to avoid pushing bedtime too late.

A comforter can also be very helpful. To help encourage the connection get your smell on it, build it in to her day by playing with it with her during the day, wedge between you and her for all feeds and give to her for all daytime and night sleep.

Hope this helps.
Maryanne

@AlpineButterfly

How do I go about getting help from you guys?? I posted upthread but think I could do with some actual support

Feel free to get in touch with us directly to book an appointment with one of our experienced sleep consultants try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

My lg is 6 weeks and will not sleep on her back in the snoozpod/Moses basket/pram. I'm well aware of the 4th trimester and babies needing to be held but I feel that there is more to it than this. The max she sleeps on her back is 30 min, and wind tends to be the reason she wakes up. She grunts alot and almost sounds like she is choking on her own breath. When I put her down, despite her being in a deep sleep, she'll immediately kick and and wave her arms and legs about. Sometimes swaddling works, other times it just makes her more frustrated. We've tried raising the cot at one end, I purchased a sleepy head and babymoov all with no effect whatsoever. Personal preference but I don't want to bed share. I'm currently sitting in rocking chair while baby intently sleeps on my chest. During the day in happily letting her sleep in a sling but need a solution for bedtime that allows us both to rest. Any suggestions please? Thank you

Hi Maryann, my son is 12 months and his sleep has gone from bad to worse! He needs to be fed to sleep unless he's in the car, consequently I haven't been out in the evening for a year. He wakes 2-4 times a night and I often can't get him back to sleep at 2.30/3am. I'm sitting here at 4.39 having been awake since 2.45. he's just been going from one breast to the other and pulling my hair. Any advice??

Thank you Maryann, what sort of cues should i try pre nap? Should naps always be in the same place?

Any tips with routine for baby no 2 (4 months) my first (2 1/2) was bottle fed and I never taught to self settle, now have to sit with him and hold his hand to sleep for 30 mins every night. Keen to get into good habits with no 2 who now seems to bf to sleep and wakes a lot in the night, he struggles napping in the day as we have ds2 following us around being noisy. I'm so tired I have stopped driving the car and I'm worried about falling asleep while feeding at night.

Tips please help

Hi Maryanne,
I have been diagnosed with a circadian rhythm sleep disorder, and routinely only sleep (or sleep deeply) between about 2 - 6am, with this being the pattern whilst pregnant with my son.

He is now nearly 2.5, and we have overcome all the terrible early days of colic, reflux, only napping for 20 minutes each morning and afternoon, etc. He is in a cot in his own room, and he goes down at around 8pm most nights, maybe waking/crying after 20 minutes but falling sound asleep after I put his dummy back in or rub his back. He then sleeps until 8:30am. He refuses all day naps.

Since he was about 18 months, he has had about 3-4 nights a fortnight where he will wake at around 2:30am, and be wide awake until 6am. He will now lie in his cot, and I lie on the bed in the room (in the dark) in silence for those hours, except for when he asks a question to check to see if I’m still there/awake. He tosses and turns, moves around the cot, until he suddenly sighs, flops over and goes back to sleep around 6am!

Have I passed on my sleep problems to him? I am just so exhausted as I don’t get to sleep before he wakes up, and for the last month, he has swapped his pattern so he is waking most nights, and only sleeping through 1 or 2 nights a fortnight.

I have no idea what to do, I don’t want him to have all the problems I have with sleep/lack of - but I’m not sure what to do. Could you give any advice, please? Thank you!

Hi, my baby is 6 months, a pretty good sleeping and until first teeth started cutting at the weekend has generally slept through the night 7-7 from about 12 weeks old. However recently he has started to wake at 5/5:30am, and can take over an hour to get back to sleep, which then puts him all out for the rest of the day due to having an awake period in the early hours. I know the reason is that he is going to bed overtired due to his daytime napping schedule. He tends to have his longest nap in the morning, around 1.5-2 hours, then two shorter naps of 30-40 mins in the afternoon. This means by about 5:30/6pm he is extremely tired, but also not ready to go to sleep for the night because he often doesn’t wake from the third nap until 5pm. How do I get him to swap his long nap to the after lunch one? He self settles, can obviously link sleep cycles...but even on the odd occasions he only sleep 30mins-1 hour on the morning nap (if he gets woken for example) he still doesn’t sleep for any longer after lunch!! Help!! Is it a case of waking him from the morning nap and just persevering until his sleep schedule naturally changes? I’ve tried getting him back to sleep when he wakes after 40 mins from the second nap, but he is just wide awake and it’s impossible.