I'm a WellVine baby sleep consultant - ask me anything!

[KateMumsnet]

Hello everyone

We thought we'd try something new this week, as part of our mission to make parents lives easier. With our remarkable powers of observation , we've noticed that lots of new parents struggle with getting their baby to sleep at one time or another. Even those who 'got away with' an easy-peasy newborn can find themselves staring, eyes drooping, at a sleepless little one, whether it's at four months, or six, or twelve; just when you think you've got this sleep thing nailed, something comes along which takes you right back to square one, and exhaustion.

So we've invited the folks at WellVine over for a baby sleep AMA. The WellVine app gets you personalised sleep advice from your own baby sleep consultant, who gets to know your baby's needs and helps you work through a personal sleep plan, all over video call. Genius, really - no ‘cry it out’, just gentle and supportive sleep advice from an expert, when and where you need it.

WellVine's sleep consultants will be hopping on and off the thread around their other duties over the next few days, so leave your questions about your baby's sleep needs here on the thread and they'll come back to you with their advice. Personal sleep plans are a bit beyond the scope of an AMA, but they'll do their best with all your other questions, so ask them anything (sleep-related)!

If you think you'd benefit from some one-to-one sessions or want to find out more, have a look at WellVine. We'll get a very small commission if you sign up, which will help to keep the lights on at MNHQ - but there's absolutely no pressure and the AMA is open to anyone who has a desperate sleep question (usual webchat rules apply).

As a related question, do you recommend waking a baby/toddler if their nap goes on longer than usual and will interfere with their bedtime? And if so, how would you recommend waking them that will cause them the least stress?

My 9month old is a rubbish sleeper. Will only be fed or rocked to sleep mainly by me. Wakes up to 15 times a night. I’m at a loss. If I leave him he just screams and screams until he vomits

Hi everyone, we have had such a great demand for the sleep advice that we're bringing in more Sleep Consultants to help answer your questions! I'm Sam Saunders, one of WellVine's experienced baby Sleep Consultants. For more than 15 years, I have been helping families resolve sleep challenges in babies and toddlers. Looking forward to answering your baby sleep questions.

@Ratbagratty

Hello I have an almost 3 year old and every night at roughly the same time she will wake up yelling something strange like "that's not the green one" or things like "where is mummy", sometimes we can easily resettle her other times it takes an hour. Are these just her brain processing? Is there anything we can do to help her?

Not sure if relevant but I have always had vivid dreams, some I remember some not.

Hi , I am sorry to hear your little one is waking in the night regularly, It's not unusual at this age. It can be around starting nursery or other changes that may be occurring.It can be if she has dropped her day nap so maybe a little-overtired adjusting to the new routine. I suggest you chat with her about when she wakes, reassure her that you are always there. If she has a favourite toy or teddy that she takes to bed, suggest that she finds it and snuggles down and goes back to sleep. When you go to her if she is not aware you are there it could be night terrors and that's around her waking between sleep cycles, again cuddle and reassure her and stay until she is calm and settled . If she has recently dropped her day nap then getting her to bed a little earlier while she adjusts may also help.

Good luck
Sam

@northernlass81

Hi. Is there a minimum age you recommend for controlled crying? I have a 5 1/2 month old breast fed baby who slept for 10-11 hours up to the age of about 3 months. She now wakes every 3 hours at night and really struggles for daytime naps (only ever about 20 mins). I've got into the habit of feeding her when she wakes at night as it soon gets her back to sleep but I worry this is a bad habit and I really don't think she's hungry. We did controlled crying with her brother at 11 months and it worked a dream but is 5 1/2 months too young? Thanks

Hi, we at Wellvine do not advocate CIO or controlled crying as a method of sleep training, we do fully understand though that it's a parents personal choice and there's no right or wrong.
Maybe talk to your health visitor about night feeds as It could be that sometimes in the night she is hungry as breastfeed babies do take little and often, so that could account for some of the wakings.
if you would like to chat with one of us about gentle sleep coaching at any point in the future, when your little one is older we here at wellvine we would be happy to help
try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

Regards
Sam

@Smarshian

My 4 month old goes to sleep well at 7pm with a dummy and white noise. We usually sit with him for 5 mins to just calm him/pop dummy back in. He is waking several times a night. He usually feeds 2-3 times but wakes more frequently and is increasingly difficult to settle after a feed. Last night he woke at 1am for a feed and it took me until 3am to get him back to sleep (he had been in my bed for an hour at this point). He has never managed a full night in his cot, always ends up not settling after a feed usually about 4am.

Any tips?

Hi , and thank you for your question. It's great that your little one settles for bed easily at 7 pm. If its that his awake and playing in the night then maybe his nap times in the day need adjusting. Around 4 months they are having 3-4 naps a day. Some babies at this stage can do one short and two longer naps in the day others are having 4 slightly shorter naps. In total, in a 12 hr day, he needs around 4-5 hrs and between 10-12 hrs at night.
I hope this has helped
Sam

@AssassinatedBeauty

What training/qualifications do you/the other consultants typically have with regard to infant sleep? How do you keep up to date with current knowledge about infant sleep?

Hi, good question.
Here at Wellvine we are all experienced and certified sleep trainers. I myself am also a qualified Nursery Nurse and worked within the Nhs for many years. Most of us have also had first-hand experience with our own children having sleep problems at some time or another. I speak for myself when it comes to CPD in that I am constantly researching and reading about sleep, I attend sleep talks and every family I work with is different and no one method fits all so it's about constantly learning and developing. I hope that helps answer your question

Hi

Have a 9 week old baby who doesn’t sleep much. He’s waking every 1.5-2 hours at the moment at night. During the day he’ll sleep if in buggy or car (but it can take a while for him to drop off) and is awake as soon as we’re back home/out of the car.

Am reading that daytime sleep is important for good nighttime sleep but how do I get him to nap during the day? He’s breastfed (has a bottle of formula before bed which used to make him sleep about four hours but doesn’t have that effect anymore) will often doze at the breast during the day but not for long. He seemed to fall into a deeper sleep today so I transferred him and he stayed asleep for about 30 mins and then was awake again.

How can I get him to nap during the day?

Also when should we introduce a bedtime routine and put him down at 7pm?

Thanks.

@LumpySpaceCow

Hi, We would like our 10 month old to transition into his own cot. He won't take a dummy or bottle. He either breast feeds to sleep or will fall asleep on his own next to daddy when I'm at work. Any tips on how best to do this? I don't mind him being in bed with us but would prefer him to start off in his own cot as I'm currently going to bed at about 7.30pm yo make sure he doesn't fall out of ours! I'm also fed up of the copious overnight breastfeeding. We intend to move him in with his brother but don't know where to start! Thanks.

Hi , thank you for your question ,
It may be a good idea for him to get used to his cot in the daytime when awake, so he could have some time in there playing with a few toys while you do a few odd jobs around him. This way when you do start to settle him into his cot it's not space his unfamiliar with. If you are intending on having him in the cot in your room for a while then having the cot next to your bed if possible, even like a co-sleeping cot may help him transition into his own space. He can settle without a feed when with daddy so getting him calm and relaxed next to you then moving him but staying with him while he settles to sleep. If feeding him to sleep then gradually get him used to coming off the breast before he is fast asleep but calm and relaxed and again moving him into his cot but staying with him until asleep.
I hope this has helped
Sam

Hi i forgot to ask about self settling,

DS (4 and a half months) cannot self settle, he has white noise, a sleepyhead and used to be swaddled which we stopped as he started hating it. If i try to put him down he screams until i pick him up, he can only fall asleep on the bottle, in the pram, in the car or being rocked. I have no interest in CC or CIO so have been doing pick up put down but he just gets more and more tired so gets increasingly worked up and we've not had it work yet. Any suggestions? Once asleep he sleeps well at night

@BBQueen

I hope this isn’t a silly question at the start of the thread... but is there any correlation between the mother’s sleeping habits while pregnant and the newborn’s patterns?

Whilst pregnant with DD1, I slept well and she was a brilliant sleeper. DD2 was a complete non-sleeper and I had terrible insomnia throughout the pregnancy. I’m pregnant with DC3, so it will be interesting to see if the pattern continues.

Great question! I don't believe there is a specific correlation between sleep patterns in pregnancy and the baby's sleep. During pregnancy, the baby does tune into mother's physiological cues for day and night. But once born, this doesn't continue and newborn babies develop their own internal clock, which isn't synchronized with the 24 hour day initially.

@thingybobwotsit

1) Any tips for slightly clueless first time parents on how to work out the right balance of daytime and nighttime sleep?

Reason for the question... We have an 8 month old, has never slept through. We seem to have our better nights on days when he has had poor naps, but then he is very grouchy through the day. How can we get to a better balance?! Do we need to limit day sleep in order to get good nights and will he then be able to cope better with less day sleep? Day sleep is 2-3 hours over 2 naps so doesn't feel excessive

2. Any tips on how to help a baby to sleep better without crying it out when they find your presence in the room very stimulating (whether constant or returning)?

In answer to your first question, the age-old phrase of 'sleep breeds sleep' is correct. Generally the better a baby sleeps during the day, the more settled they will be for the night. Timings of naps are really important so ideally morning nap around 9am and lunchtime nap around 12.30pm.

If the baby finds your presence too stimulating, then try reassurance from the doorway whether constant or intermittent. Use a shush and quiet reassurance words.

@Knighton

Hi, help how do I teach my 12 week DD to self settle??? She sleeps well in my arms/sling for a good hour or two for day naps and co-sleeps with me at night. I want to teach her to self settle in own cot. How many times do I go in and help settle etc.

Many thanks

If you are keen for the baby to sleep in her cot, try to put her down for either one of the naps or at bedtime. If she is unsettled, you can pick her up, calm her and put her back down again once calm. You can also keep your hand on her when she is in the cot so she gets that reassurance from the physical touch.

@OrangeTangerine

Hi Maryanne,

My 14 month old daughter slept well for the first three months of her life (though was never a great napper in the day). Once she hit four months, we experienced the big sleep regression and it's never got better.

She will have two short naps in the day (30 mins or so). In the evening I feed her to sleep and put her in her cot at 7pm (she is obviously tired). I regularly have to go to her two or three times before I go to bed at 10pm(!). She then will wake again, at which point I bring her into our bed as otherwise I would be up and down all night. Until a few weeks ago she was then off and on the boob all night. Two weeks ago I gently night weaned her, so that she now has no breast milk between 11-6am. This went okay, and she is sleeping in slightly longer chunks but still waking frequently, and particularly around 4am when she will take over an hour to go back to sleep.

I'm really exhausted - please can you offer advice!
Thanks v much.

This certainly does sound exhausting. If she is difficult to settle for one of the naps in particular, you may want to consider cutting to 1 nap a day, around lunchtime. It sounds like she also has an association of milk for sleep so try to put her down in the cot at bedtime without being fully asleep. Introducing bedtime story after the feed at bedtime is a great way of separating the feed from the sleep.

@1NuDad

Hi.

Good timing this, for us!

What a difference a weekend can make.

We started sleep training on Friday. We took advice from someone who came recommended. Essentially, controlled crying; putting him down awake after a nighttime routine and then going in every five minutes. First night was OK. He settled himself after 25 minutes or so of moderate crying. Second night was better; he was asleep after about 9 minutes and woke up once to self-settle and got back to sleep until 6am ish. We thought we cracked it.

Then his mood plummeted the day after. He was miserable. We guessed teething, but he started getting apprehensive when going into his room, in the day, even for nappy changes. His last nap of the day was a battle, he screamed to sleep but eventually went off.

At bedtime, it was fine. Asleep straight away. I thought, "great, here comes the third night sleeping through" that everyone talks about.

At 23:45 though, he woke and got more and more upset. This lasted for two hours and we cracked. Couldn't take it. He was inconsolable, there were no gaps in his crying. We gave him granules. We gave him nurofen. Nothing worked. Going in seemed to traumatise him more. We wanted to feed him, simply to sooth him. I know this was wrong in our advice, but he is such a happy baby. Seeing him upset was the worse thing we've experienced as parents. I also had been reading these forums about how dreadful it is and traumatising for the children, so I wanted to abandon the plan fully. We fed him and he slept until the morning.

Today has been even worse. Loud crying everytime we try and even entertain the idea of a nap. The old techniques aren't even working! Not even rocking to sleep. We've had to let him fall to sleep on the breast twice. Otherwise, he wouldn't have napped.

It's really affected all of us. All three of us are upset and feel nervous.

But now what on earth do we do? Try again? Come up with a compromise? We feel like we've broken him. It's horrible.

My partner is back at work next month and can't keep feeding him in the night, hence our decision.

This sounds like a really difficult time for you all. You didn't mention how old he is. It may be worth getting in touch with the sleep consultant you worked with to talk through what has been happening and see if they can offer you some support and advice. In the meantime, it may be helpful to try and encourage a more positive association for him with his cot by having him play in there during the day, with some books and toys. Make it clear this is not about sleep so lights on and curtains open.

@Coffeeandtv1983

Hi Maryanne,

My 2.7 year old has been coming through to our room between 5 and 5.30am more or less consistently since he went in his own bed around 5 months ago. I could almost accept this apart from that he is very tired and grumpy by about 10am. We’ve tried earlier bed times, later bed times, earlier naps, later naps, shorter naps but nothing seems to help. I should mention that his little brother was born 2 months ago but that the early waking predates this. Thank you.

You can try a wake up light which can work well at this age. A lamp set on a timer, which comes on around 6am. Explain to him that when the light is off it is night time and when it comes on it is morning. Try this in conjunction with a sticker chart for when he has waited for the wake up light to come on.

Hi Wellvine,

Our adopted daughter came home 11.5 months ago. She has never slept through. She wakes 2-3 times in the evening (goes to bed about 6/6.30) and once I go to bed wakes up 3-4 times. We're exhausted.
At the foster carers house she woke approx 10 times a night (for dummy) but went to sleep fine with a comforter.
Since moving here we have the trauma issue and once cracked teaching her to find her dummy, we realised she was waking just for reassurance that we are still here.
When I go in to her I shush her and resettle her (lay her down, pop her dummy in, snuggles on her head) and she goes back to sleep.
Do you have experience of children who have suffered trauma, and if so, what would you suggest?

@spugzbunny

Hi,

Why do you advocate not having sleep associations. For example breast or cuddles? I take a very laid back approach to parenting and approach it in a 'what do my instincts tell me' way. My instincts tell me to comfort my baby. Am I really creating a coddled monster who will need to be breastfed to sleep at 15?

Your parenting approach sounds great and you are certainly not creating a monster! There is no rule book when it comes to parenting and no one size fits all when it comes to any aspect of parenting, including sleep. And instinct of one parent isn't going to be the same as the instinct of another.

[quote RomyLou1234]Hi, I have a breastfed 6mth old that would frequently sleep through the night or wake up once only for a feed then straight back down until morning. This enjoyable pattern has ceased and over the past few weeks he wakes up 3 - 4 times a night (occasionally he doesn’t settle back to sleep even after feed). The worst is he refuses now to sleep during the day..just 10min light snoozes in the puschair. Would introducing solids to his diet help this sleep pattern or is there more to it?[/quote

Yes he may be ready for solids at this stage (recommended guidelines are from 6 months of age) which may help with his sleep. Also try to maximise his daytime feeds as the less nutrition he takes in during the day, the more likely he is to wake at night. Try to settle him in his cot, with the room as dark as possible to encourage longer naps.

[quote Napssavelives]My son is almost 4 and won’t stay in his bed. I have to sit with him very night to get him to sleep. He’ll then come into my bed every night , the time varies. Dc3 due next year and we need to have him sleeping, going to sleep alone and sleeping in his own bed. We have no idea what to do with him[/quote

A gradual retreat approach may help with you sitting on a 'sleep cushion' near his bed until he goes to sleep both at bedtime and for wake ups during the night. Over a series of nights move the cushion towards the door and finally just outside the door. The key to success of this is to be very consistent with the process.

@Oly5

Hi Maryanne, my 11 month old has never slept through the night. He won’t settle on his own in the cot, only in my arms. I then put him down asleep. He wakes hourly, sometimes due to wind other times because the dummy has fallen out. Other time who knows? I get him back to sleep either by popping the dummy back in or picking him up and breastfeeding him. I don’t want to leave him to cry but I’m shattered. He has a morning and afternoon nap lasting about 1.5 but each. Last one finishes around 2.30pm. We have a good bedtime routine from birth. Any ideas?

This does sound exhausting. Consider a gradual retreat process where you put him down in the cot at bedtime and sit next to him, giving verbal and physical reassurance until he falls asleep. Do the same for any wake ups during the night. Every few nights, move your sitting position in the middle of the room, then next to doorway of room and eventually outside room. Consistency is the key to success !

Around 4 months they are having 3-4 naps a day. Some babies at this stage can do one short and two longer naps in the day others are having 4 slightly shorter naps. In total, in a 12 hr day, he needs around 4-5 hrs and between 10-12 hrs at night.

I'm nowhere close to this number of hours for my four-month old. Should in be worried? I just don't know how to discipline sleep! When DC naps it's only for about 20-30 mins and only maybe three times a day. Maybe do you think that's why the nights have become broken?

@Vladi10

My son turned 3 in July and he doesn’t sleep through, he goes to bed fine, sleeps a few hours then wakes and shouts us about 5 times a night. Tried snacks, drinks, loo all sorts were exhausted. He’s always been a rubbish sleeper but what else can we do?

If you feel he is looking for reassurance, you can use a gradual retreat process. When he wakes sit on a 'sleep cushion' next to his bed, giving reassurance if necessary. Stay with him until he falls back to sleep. Do the same for all wake ups during the night. Over a series of nights, move your sitting position further away from the bed until you are sitting outside his room. Consistency is the key to success of this.

(That first paragraph was meant to be in bold from a previous answer)

@MammaSchwifty

My 13 month old will sleep through the night maybe half the time. She sucks her thumb, which seems to help her settle herself at night but not 100% reliably. She also refuses to go into the cot awake and lay down to be soothed with back rubs etc. We have to hold her until almost asleep before she will go in the cot. Many times when she realises she's being put down, she will spring up and start screaming/crying and we have to pick her up to soothe her until she's so sleepy she stays down.

How can we gently teach her that in the cot she should lie down, suck her thumb and drift off?

Try to encourage a positive association for her with her cot by giving her the opportunity to have regular play time with toys and books in her cot during the day, with lights on and curtains open so it is clear it is not sleep time. A teddy as a comforter may also help her feel more secure in the cot. Also, make sure she is not going into the cot too tired.