I'm a WellVine baby sleep consultant - ask me anything!

[KateMumsnet]

Hello everyone

We thought we'd try something new this week, as part of our mission to make parents lives easier. With our remarkable powers of observation , we've noticed that lots of new parents struggle with getting their baby to sleep at one time or another. Even those who 'got away with' an easy-peasy newborn can find themselves staring, eyes drooping, at a sleepless little one, whether it's at four months, or six, or twelve; just when you think you've got this sleep thing nailed, something comes along which takes you right back to square one, and exhaustion.

So we've invited the folks at WellVine over for a baby sleep AMA. The WellVine app gets you personalised sleep advice from your own baby sleep consultant, who gets to know your baby's needs and helps you work through a personal sleep plan, all over video call. Genius, really - no ‘cry it out’, just gentle and supportive sleep advice from an expert, when and where you need it.

WellVine's sleep consultants will be hopping on and off the thread around their other duties over the next few days, so leave your questions about your baby's sleep needs here on the thread and they'll come back to you with their advice. Personal sleep plans are a bit beyond the scope of an AMA, but they'll do their best with all your other questions, so ask them anything (sleep-related)!

If you think you'd benefit from some one-to-one sessions or want to find out more, have a look at WellVine. We'll get a very small commission if you sign up, which will help to keep the lights on at MNHQ - but there's absolutely no pressure and the AMA is open to anyone who has a desperate sleep question (usual webchat rules apply).

@Hortonlovesahoo

Hi Maryanne,

I have a 2.5 year old and since April she has refused to sleep in her own bed and will scream blue murder. We've tried staying in the room til she sleeps, crying it out, putting her back in when she wakes up but nothing happens or changes. She has since April slept once or twice in her own bed all night but for the rest has been in our bed and/or a bed in our room

Any advice that you can give to get her into her own bed? We've tried spending time in her room, playing in there, giving her the choice for bed spread/ toys/ nightlight.

Thanks!

Hi , sorry to this. I am assuming she did sleep in her own room and maybe a cot before. Has this coincided with moving into a big bed and or starting nursery if so then that may be the reason.
With any form of sleep training, there are no quick fixes and it can take a few weeks for things to change, so staying consistent is the key . You could maybe try going in with her on a mattress rather than her in with you. This way you are getting her confident in her room again and then try some gradual retreat sleep training, So it's slow and gentle.

Hope this helps
Sam

Hello! 15 month old here...always been a bit of a rubbish sleeper. Goes down really easily about 715/730pm and sleeps till about 3.30/4am before waking up screaming. We’ve tried letting her cry herself back to sleep but it is such a distressed screaming cry that it is so hard and she will go on until we lift her...20 mins...too upsetting to go beyond that. We’ve recently moved from 2 naps (2-2.5 hours a day) to one nap (1.5 hours) in the hope that would make her more sleepy but no luck. She is awake and ready for the day at 5am. She can only be placated by a cuddle until she is back to sleep properly....heaven for it we put her down unless she is out for the count and she starts screaming again. It takes a good 30 mins before she is asleep enough to put back into her cot. We’re all a bit demented with it hit as it wakes the whole house! Any ideas? Thanks!!

@ifeelsoextraordinary

Hello! 15 month old here...always been a bit of a rubbish sleeper. Goes down really easily about 715/730pm and sleeps till about 3.30/4am before waking up screaming. We’ve tried letting her cry herself back to sleep but it is such a distressed screaming cry that it is so hard and she will go on until we lift her...20 mins...too upsetting to go beyond that. We’ve recently moved from 2 naps (2-2.5 hours a day) to one nap (1.5 hours) in the hope that would make her more sleepy but no luck. She is awake and ready for the day at 5am. She can only be placated by a cuddle until she is back to sleep properly....heaven for it we put her down unless she is out for the count and she starts screaming again. It takes a good 30 mins before she is asleep enough to put back into her cot. We’re all a bit demented with it hit as it wakes the whole house! Any ideas? Thanks!!

Hi, sorry to hear your little one is struggling so early in the morning. It sounds to me like she is a little overtired due to the nap change recently. This is often the case when their daily routine changes. I would suggest a slightly earlier bedtime maybe 6.45 pm for a while until she adjusts to the hours less sleep in the day. It doesn't necessarily mean she will wake even earlier so give it a go.

Good Luck
Sam

Hi Sam,

In response to your earlier reply, we tried each method for several weeks. None ever gave any changes or improvement.

He still woke at 11.30pm and 4am regardless with every single method.

Please do you have any advice?

@AlphaBravo

Hi Sam,

In response to your earlier reply, we tried each method for several weeks. None ever gave any changes or improvement.

He still woke at 11.30pm and 4am regardless with every single method.

Please do you have any advice?

Hi Kerry here!

Unfortunately no sleep training method is 100% guarantee because all Smalls and their sleep story are one of a kind.

I feel the next step would be to find out more about your sleep situation and offer you some sleep suggestions that are tailored to you. All the details can be found here: try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

Best wishes

Thanks for your reply Kerry,

We already use white noise and she is due to have her third session of cranial Osteopathy next week.

My husband suggests getting out and about a bit more? But is this a good idea if she just constantly screams?

I have a question....
It took me ages to scroll to ththrough bottom - so many sleep “problems”

Can I ask please that if so many babies have sleep problems (I once saw a sleep consultant proudly stating she’d helped over a million families) you’ve got to ask yourself surely if they actually have sleep problems, or whether in fact western parents just have unrealistic expectations about normal infant sleep???

Also this.....

So many posters whose babies are COMPLETELY NORMAL posting here!

If your baby is under a year old: cuddle them, fall asleep feeding, have them in your bed! It is NORMAL for them to scream if separated from you!

The Dr Jay Gordon method is good for those over a year old.

Question

Play lullabies and calm music during last feed and when baby wakes to calm them or not?

6 month old son is still in a sleepyhead, could this be prohibiting his sleep?

@Colette0988

Thanks for your reply Kerry,

We already use white noise and she is due to have her third session of cranial Osteopathy next week.

My husband suggests getting out and about a bit more? But is this a good idea if she just constantly screams?

Hi Colette,

Just reiterating what Kerry said, sleep can be so fluctuating at this early age as the sleep hormones are not yet established.

Fresh air and natural light is always great for babies (& adults!) so getting out during the day when you can will always be beneficial.

Try to get as much rest as you can whenever you can and call in help from friends and family where possible.

If you would like some further personalised help, take a look at the Wellvine service. You can make an appointment to speak to any of our experienced sleep consultants. try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

@Absofrigginlootly

I have a question.... It took me ages to scroll to ththrough bottom - so many sleep “problems”

Can I ask please that if so many babies have sleep problems (I once saw a sleep consultant proudly stating she’d helped over a million families) you’ve got to ask yourself surely if they actually have sleep problems, or whether in fact western parents just have unrealistic expectations about normal infant sleep???

Also this.....

So many posters whose babies are COMPLETELY NORMAL posting here!

If your baby is under a year old: cuddle them, fall asleep feeding, have them in your bed! It is NORMAL for them to scream if separated from you!

The Dr Jay Gordon method is good for those over a year old.

Every family have different approaches and preferences when it comes to parenting. The same goes for sleep and what may be ok to for one family, may not be at all for another. When it comes to a child's sleep, there is no one size fits all approach but rather an individual approach which feels right for the parents.

@Lotsalotsagiggles

Question

Play lullabies and calm music during last feed and when baby wakes to calm them or not?

6 month old son is still in a sleepyhead, could this be prohibiting his sleep?

Lullabies can be lovely as a soothing wind down but I would suggest you don't use them as a tool for getting the baby to sleep. White noise can be helpful in masking background noise from the house or the street outside and help the baby sink into a deeper sleep.

Once a baby is learning to roll from side to side, sleepyheads can be slightly restrictive so it may be time to take it away and give him some space to move.

My baby is 5 months and the last 2 weeks wakes up from daytime naps crying, even if I'm in the same room. What can I do? He doesn't do it in the morning xx

I’m struggling to get my 6 month over to sleep for naps and the only thing that works is a bottle but not always. Is it wrong to let him fall asleep with a bottle?

Lotsalotsagiggles
Hey

My son is 6 months this week

He used to sleep 9-6 but now wales 1230, 330 and 6

What's the ideal bedtime for this age, idea of last feed and naps?

And will moving him to his own room help....

If you feel ready to move him to his own room, then go ahead.

At his age, he would ideally have 2-3 naps a day. Morning nap around 9am (for up to 1-1 1/2 hours), lunchtime nap (up to 1 1/2 hours) around 12.30pm and an afternoon nap around 3.30/4pm (around 30-40 mins). With this schedule, aim for a 7/7:30pm bedtime. This is very much a rough guide as babies differ to a degree with their sleep needs.

Best of luck.

Maryanne

Further query to response -

Hi

His morning and afternoon naps tend to only last 25-45 mins. Any tips of how we can elongate them?

He seems to not be able to stay into deep sleep at the mo and only stay in restless light sleep. Is it a 6 month growth thing? Please tell me it gets better

Hi

Bit if a hypothetical, in your experience is there a difference in sleep with FF and BF babies?

We really struggled with BF my 9mo and ended up giving formula, if we were to have a second I would really want to try BF again.

9mo slept through from 4 months and self settles well, but a lot of BF mums I speak to have LOs that are still waking at 9 months for feeds. Don't actually know any FFing mums so not sure what their experience is.

Did we just get lucky with DD/ some how muddled through and found what worked for her or does feed type help?

Thanks !

For the last 20 months my little one has been sleeping perfectly
A fortnight ago I had a night away which was also day light savings night where the clocks changed and ever since she has been a nightmare to go to sleep she usually has one day sleep and would self settle always been a good sleeper but now she stands up in her cot crying and won’t lay down until I sit beside her cot and won’t go to sleep for ages unless I am sitting beside her she was just doing it of a night but now is also doing it on her day sleeps I have tried many different things but nothing is working am wondering if I should cut out her day sleeps altogether as my mother in law had her the other day whilst I was at work and she did the same so she kept her up all day and she went to bed straight away that night (with me sitting beside her cot while she had her bottle)
But some times she can take upto 1-1.5 hours to settle and go to sleep
Her bed time before day light savings was between 7:00-8:00pm and she usually wakes up at 7:30am does any one have any suggestions? Help ?

@cpark

My baby is 5 months and the last 2 weeks wakes up from daytime naps crying, even if I'm in the same room. What can I do? He doesn't do it in the morning xx

Hi there,

Your baby may be going through a period of transition, with a growth spurt which can impact on sleep.

Try to start shaping his daytime schedule towards a framework of 3 naps a day - morning nap around 9am (for up to 1 1/2 hours approx), lunchtime nap around 12.30pm (up to 1 1/2 hours approx.), and an afternoon nap around 3.30/4pm (for around 30-40 minutes). This can help regulate his body clock moving forward.

Also encourage some play time in his cot during the day so he has the opportunity to build a positive association with the environment of his cot.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

My little girl is 20 months old and For the last 20 months my little one has been sleeping perfectly
A fortnight ago I had a night away which was also day light savings night where the clocks changed and ever since she has been a nightmare to go to sleep she usually has one day sleep and would self settle always been a good sleeper but now she stands up in her cot crying and won’t lay down until I sit beside her cot and won’t go to sleep for ages unless I am sitting beside her she was just doing it of a night but now is also doing it on her day sleeps I have tried many different things but nothing is working am wondering if I should cut out her day sleeps altogether as my mother in law had her the other day whilst I was at work and she did the same so she kept her up all day and she went to bed straight away that night (with me sitting beside her cot while she had her bottle)
But some times she can take upto 1-1.5 hours to settle and go to sleep
Her bed time before day light savings was between 7:00-8:00pm and she usually wakes up at 7:30am does any one have any suggestions? Help ?

@mummyjo91

I’m struggling to get my 6 month over to sleep for naps and the only thing that works is a bottle but not always. Is it wrong to let him fall asleep with a bottle?

When it comes to parenting there is no wrong. If he is struggling to settle, with or without the bottle then let's look at the timings of his naps as this can impact on his settling. At his age, shaping his naps into a framework of 3 a day can help regulate his body clock. So morning nap around 9am, lunchtime nap around 12.30 and afternoon nap around 3.30/4pm. These are approximations but gives you a rough indication.

Also try to incorporate a short wind down in his room before putting him down for a nap, even sitting in the room reading a short book before putting him into the cot can help cue him for sleep.

I hope this helps.

Maryanne

@Lotsalotsagiggles

Lotsalotsagiggles Hey

My son is 6 months this week

He used to sleep 9-6 but now wales 1230, 330 and 6

What's the ideal bedtime for this age, idea of last feed and naps?

And will moving him to his own room help....

If you feel ready to move him to his own room, then go ahead.

At his age, he would ideally have 2-3 naps a day. Morning nap around 9am (for up to 1-1 1/2 hours), lunchtime nap (up to 1 1/2 hours) around 12.30pm and an afternoon nap around 3.30/4pm (around 30-40 mins). With this schedule, aim for a 7/7:30pm bedtime. This is very much a rough guide as babies differ to a degree with their sleep needs.

Best of luck.

Maryanne

Further query to response -

Hi

His morning and afternoon naps tend to only last 25-45 mins. Any tips of how we can elongate them?

He seems to not be able to stay into deep sleep at the mo and only stay in restless light sleep. Is it a 6 month growth thing? Please tell me it gets better

It is normal for naps to be this length at this stage so don't worry, he will get there. Another few suggestions...

• make sure room is dark for daytime naps as the sleep hormone is directly connected to light and dark

• do a short wind down in his room before naps - sit and read a short story in his room before putting him into cot

• you can try some white noise in his room as this can help him sink into a deeper sleep.

And rest assured, it will get better and sounds like you're doing great!

Maryanne

@lostvoice

Hi

Bit if a hypothetical, in your experience is there a difference in sleep with FF and BF babies?

We really struggled with BF my 9mo and ended up giving formula, if we were to have a second I would really want to try BF again.

9mo slept through from 4 months and self settles well, but a lot of BF mums I speak to have LOs that are still waking at 9 months for feeds. Don't actually know any FFing mums so not sure what their experience is.

Did we just get lucky with DD/ some how muddled through and found what worked for her or does feed type help?

Thanks !

Hi Sam here,
Well done on breastfeeding for however long you managed, any length of time is great and its great you would like to feed yourself again with a possible number 2. Often your experience of Breastfeeding further babies will be very different and you are generally more relaxed about everything so feeding can be much easier.

Every baby is different and the method of feeding from my experience and in supporting many families is that just as many bottle-fed babies are having feeds at 9 months in the night.
Your little one did amazingly well to be self-settling and sleeping through form 4 months.

I Hope this helps in the future,

Sam

@lostvoice

Hi

Bit if a hypothetical, in your experience is there a difference in sleep with FF and BF babies?

We really struggled with BF my 9mo and ended up giving formula, if we were to have a second I would really want to try BF again.

9mo slept through from 4 months and self settles well, but a lot of BF mums I speak to have LOs that are still waking at 9 months for feeds. Don't actually know any FFing mums so not sure what their experience is.

Did we just get lucky with DD/ some how muddled through and found what worked for her or does feed type help?

Thanks !

This is an interesting question and there are many debates about exactly this. Every baby (whether BB or FF) is unique and some fall into a sleep pattern early on themselves, while others take longer and others may need help. So ultimately sleep is individual and there are some BF who may be sleeping through at 9 months and some not.

Sorry not more of a definite answer!

@angelalittle

My little girl is 20 months old and For the last 20 months my little one has been sleeping perfectly A fortnight ago I had a night away which was also day light savings night where the clocks changed and ever since she has been a nightmare to go to sleep she usually has one day sleep and would self settle always been a good sleeper but now she stands up in her cot crying and won’t lay down until I sit beside her cot and won’t go to sleep for ages unless I am sitting beside her she was just doing it of a night but now is also doing it on her day sleeps I have tried many different things but nothing is working am wondering if I should cut out her day sleeps altogether as my mother in law had her the other day whilst I was at work and she did the same so she kept her up all day and she went to bed straight away that night (with me sitting beside her cot while she had her bottle) But some times she can take upto 1-1.5 hours to settle and go to sleep Her bed time before day light savings was between 7:00-8:00pm and she usually wakes up at 7:30am does any one have any suggestions? Help ?

Hi Sam here ,

Its normal for little ones to need a nap in the day until around 3 years but they are all different. The fact that bedtime has become unsettled and now the nap time is not unusual as it's all about how she goes to sleep whether it's for the night or nap. You mentioned its only been a fortnight and that you have tried many different things, with any type of sleep training it's important you are consistent with your method for both day and night.

Maybe try a longer wind down time in her room for both nap and night with stories & dim lights. Still, sit with her if that's good for you while she settles but with little interaction, so just asking her to "lay down its sleepy time now " or words to that effect. You could then try a gradual retreat process, to get her back to self-settling again.

Good Luck
Sam

Hello
I’ve read that short one-sleep-cycle naps are developmentally normal for 4-5 month old babies. Please can you confirm if this is correct and if there is any point in me trying to extend the naps by helping baby to self settle? Am I better off waiting until 6 months? I want to get rid of the dummy and teach lo a new, more independent sleep routine.

I also cosleep, what is the best way to get Baby to sept settle whilst also continuing to bedshare? Not willing to give up bedsharinf until we r down to one wake up per night. I have an older child and can’t catch up on sleep in the day so need to maximise night sleep. Thanks

@Ladi85

Hello I’ve read that short one-sleep-cycle naps are developmentally normal for 4-5 month old babies. Please can you confirm if this is correct and if there is any point in me trying to extend the naps by helping baby to self settle? Am I better off waiting until 6 months? I want to get rid of the dummy and teach lo a new, more independent sleep routine.

I also cosleep, what is the best way to get Baby to sept settle whilst also continuing to bedshare? Not willing to give up bedsharinf until we r down to one wake up per night. I have an older child and can’t catch up on sleep in the day so need to maximise night sleep. Thanks

Hi there,

Yes, this is correct. Sleep patterns are not yet established at this age and it is very normal for babies to sleep for 1 sleep cycle for naps. And by 6 months, the baby often start regulating their sleep pattern themselves and stretch longer for each nap.

In terms of encouraging baby to self settle while co-sleeping, you can start by trying to not feed baby until fully asleep. When baby has finished feeding, rather than continuing with the suckling to sleep, when feed is finished, unlatch and use reassurance ( shushes and hand on baby) if necessary to get the baby to sleep. Gradually start doing less and less in terms of involvement by you.

In the meantime, it sounds like you're doing great and wouldn't change what you're doing!

Hope it helps.

Maryanne