I'm a WellVine baby sleep consultant - ask me anything!

[KateMumsnet]

Hello everyone

We thought we'd try something new this week, as part of our mission to make parents lives easier. With our remarkable powers of observation , we've noticed that lots of new parents struggle with getting their baby to sleep at one time or another. Even those who 'got away with' an easy-peasy newborn can find themselves staring, eyes drooping, at a sleepless little one, whether it's at four months, or six, or twelve; just when you think you've got this sleep thing nailed, something comes along which takes you right back to square one, and exhaustion.

So we've invited the folks at WellVine over for a baby sleep AMA. The WellVine app gets you personalised sleep advice from your own baby sleep consultant, who gets to know your baby's needs and helps you work through a personal sleep plan, all over video call. Genius, really - no ‘cry it out’, just gentle and supportive sleep advice from an expert, when and where you need it.

WellVine's sleep consultants will be hopping on and off the thread around their other duties over the next few days, so leave your questions about your baby's sleep needs here on the thread and they'll come back to you with their advice. Personal sleep plans are a bit beyond the scope of an AMA, but they'll do their best with all your other questions, so ask them anything (sleep-related)!

If you think you'd benefit from some one-to-one sessions or want to find out more, have a look at WellVine. We'll get a very small commission if you sign up, which will help to keep the lights on at MNHQ - but there's absolutely no pressure and the AMA is open to anyone who has a desperate sleep question (usual webchat rules apply).

@Moosandfruitbowls

Hi Wellvine

My daughter is 3 years and 4 months. When she little sleep was difficult and we struggled but then when she was nearly 2 she started sleeping 12 hours and we could put her in her cot awake, she would fall asleep and we didn’t hear from her again until the morning, that lasted for nearly a year and then she got a bug and we comforted her through the night and have had issues since then. For almost 6 months i have ended up sitting in her room waiting with her to fall asleep holding her hand, usually takes about 20 minutes so I don’t mind That. Tried gradual retreat etc but it didn’t work. We did controlled crying when she was younger and it was very effective in a very short period of time but I can’t bring myself to try it again. Because I am sitting in there holding her hand until she is asleep of course then when she wakes in the night she realises I am not there and she ends up crying and upset til I go in, this happens on average at least twice a night. I’m not quite sure how to break the habit and deal with it. Leaving her to drop off to sleep on her own I know is the answer probably but she gets so so upset and gradual retreat/vanishing chair didn’t work. Any advice you have for me would be really well received. Thank you in advance.

Hi there,

You can try a version of the gradual retreat, starting with putting your hand on her, rather than holding her hand. Then progress on to putting your hand on her intermittently. Keep reducing the level of input every few nights.

Consistency is the key to success. Whatever process you start with at bedtime, continue with the same for all wake ups during the night.

Best of luck.

Maryanne

@CremeDeSudo

Really hoping I'm not too late with this as I just want reassurance I'm doing the right thing..

DD is 18 weeks, but was 4wks prem. She's catnapped 30-45min naps since around 8wks old. Hates the car seat, and the sling will sleep in the pram but still doesn't get past a sleep cycle.

At night she goes to bed at 630/7, usually without a problem and now we've hit the sleep regression she's waking up for her dummy to be put back in every 2hrs. She has a small bottle (max 3.5oz) around 2am. Usually around 5ish she's quite awake so I bring her to bed with me and she goes back to sleep til around 630.

Her naps are awful. I know this is normal. The 'first half' of each nap is generally good, I can put her down, often sleepy but awake. Once she's woken however, she won't go back off. If I can get her back to sleep, she wakes as soon as I put her down again.

We have black out blinds, white noise, comforter, dummy, routine all already in place. Pick up put down makes her worse and always results in not being able to put her down due to the state she's got herself into.

So my plan is simply to survive until she's through the regression. Ie, cosleep if needed, if she needs to nap on me then I will allow her to do so. I just want her to nap through whatever means necessary!Once we're through I'll look at gradual retreat as this worked with my little boy.

Does this sound sensible? I'm very nervous of creating more crutches I'll need to address later. Also, how would you suggest getting rid of the dummy? We don't want to keep it up longer than we have to for the SIDS benefits but equally, she's reliant on it!

TIA and sorry for epic post!

Thanks for your post. It is very normal for naps to be frequent and last for one sleep cycle at this stage. It sounds sensible to continue what you're doing and ride through the regression. And clearly you know what you're doing when it comes to the gradual retreat.

In terms of getting rid of the dummy, you may want to consider doing it when you start the gradual retreat. It may take a few days of adjustment and remember that staying consistent will make the process much easier for her.

Best of luck.

Maryanne

@MyBabyBoyBlue

Is it too late to start trying to sleep train a one year old? He has never really slept through the night but for the past three/four months he has woken more and more frequently to the point where we are getting no sleep at night

This sounds exhausting for everyone. No, it is not too late to help your child with sleep. If he is seeking reassurance from you during the night, then you can consider a gradual process. Starting with reassurance from right beside him, over a series of nights, you move gradually further away from the side of his cot as he gets more confident at settling himself.

Best of luck,

Maryanne

@Lotsalotsagiggles

Hey

My son is 6 months this week

He used to sleep 9-6 but now wales 1230, 330 and 6

What's the ideal bedtime for this age, idea of last feed and naps?

And will moving him to his own room help....

If you feel ready to move him to his own room, then go ahead.

At his age, he would ideally have 2-3 naps a day. Morning nap around 9am (for up to 1-1 1/2 hours), lunchtime nap (up to 1 1/2 hours) around 12.30pm and an afternoon nap around 3.30/4pm (around 30-40 mins). With this schedule, aim for a 7/7:30pm bedtime. This is very much a rough guide as babies differ to a degree with their sleep needs.

Best of luck.

Maryanne

Hi
My 6 week old daughter is gradually getting worse and worse at sleeping. She now only sleeps 2 hours between every feed (day or night) and the sleep she gets is very disturbed. Needing regular shushing and a comforting hand on her.
She is swaddled in a next to me crib. Will not settle in the car, pram or bouncy chair.
Some nights she will only settle if she is on my chest,
We have just started on gripe water today to see if this helps x

HI

My elder 4 and a half year older girl twin has been an excellent sleeper for 2 years. She shares with her sister who has not been so good, but who has in the last month become much better. They both started school this year.
About a month ago my elder 4 1/2 year old started going to the loo 4-5 times a night and previously had wiped her own bottom started demanding that I do this for her. She is also complaining that she every time she return to bed, she still wants to go to the loo. I took her to the g[ and he thought there was a trace of infection in her urine, and we have been on antibiotics, which I hate using. The surgery have now confirmed she hasn't got a urine infection. She is still waking several times a night...and I'm beside myself.
Any siggestions? thanks

How much sleep is “ideal” for a one year old overnight and in day?

Sorry to post another question. Currentlygoing through a very tough time sleepwise with my 8 month old.

I have got into the habit of always feeding to sleep. Occasionally she will accept rocking during the night but this is rare! She is currently waking every hour or 2 hours in a good night. Sometimes like last night it can be every 20 mins for a period too. Each time she wakes she will feed between 15-30 mins and then fall asleep. As soon as she stops feeding I transfer her to the cot. However if it’s a bad night I might bedshare for some of the night too. When bedaharing I can settle her with a back stroke for some of the wake ups.

So my question is.... how do I help us get more sleep? I guess I have been helping her too much to get to sleep? Currently I am very tired and cannot handle the stress of her crying at all. So can you suggest any truly gentle methods? Part of me is considering bedsharing for more of the night but I am worried about how I would stop in the future? If I do nothing and continue to feed to sleep will she eventually be able to sleep for 4 hour plus stretches?

Thank you!

This is a fab thread, thank you so much for all your time you are spending in answering every ones questions!

@Colette0988

Hi My 6 week old daughter is gradually getting worse and worse at sleeping. She now only sleeps 2 hours between every feed (day or night) and the sleep she gets is very disturbed. Needing regular shushing and a comforting hand on her. She is swaddled in a next to me crib. Will not settle in the car, pram or bouncy chair. Some nights she will only settle if she is on my chest, We have just started on gripe water today to see if this helps x

Hi Collette, Kerry here!

Congratulations on your new baby! Your baby in the fourth trimester ( def worth a google!) and sleep can be very irregular. It can be so tough and tiring but it does get better!

My sleep suggestions are:

Use white noise for naps and nighttime to remind her of being in the womb

If you're breast feeding you could try drinking fennel tea to help ease the wind

If there was any ventouse or forceps in your birth I highly recommend investigating some cranial therapy

It's natural that babies fidget/move/shuffle/make noise when sleeping, some constantly or more than others! This is at any age but more so at this age when sleep hormones haven't been fully set up. It doesn't always mean that they need your support.

Sending you sleep solidarity!

@ivfnewbe

How much sleep is “ideal” for a one year old overnight and in day?

Hi Kerry here!

Every baby is different but very generally speaking:

Naps: 1-5-2-5 hours
Night time: 10.5-11.5

Some may need more some may need less! The best way to tell if they're getting enough is look at what them. If they're hitting milestones, eating and full of energy, it's likely they're getting enough :)

Sending you sleep solidarity!

@HelenLouise05

HI

My elder 4 and a half year older girl twin has been an excellent sleeper for 2 years. She shares with her sister who has not been so good, but who has in the last month become much better. They both started school this year.
About a month ago my elder 4 1/2 year old started going to the loo 4-5 times a night and previously had wiped her own bottom started demanding that I do this for her. She is also complaining that she every time she return to bed, she still wants to go to the loo. I took her to the g[ and he thought there was a trace of infection in her urine, and we have been on antibiotics, which I hate using. The surgery have now confirmed she hasn't got a urine infection. She is still waking several times a night...and I'm beside myself.
Any siggestions? thanks

Hi Kerry here!

This sounds very tough and tiring for you! Is she waking up and needing the loo at night? My initial thought has there been a change recently for her that sparked this off?

If so my suggestions are:

Make the last thing at night before she goes to bed a wee!

Try to make sure she's fully emptying her bladder. Getting her to lean slightly forward as she wees can help.

Make sure she's getting enough fluid during the day

When/if she wakes for a wee at night:

Try not to ask why she's up again/needs a wee

Take her to loo if she needs it but keep conversation to minimum

Hope this helps!

Kerry

@StinkySaurus

Sorry to post another question. Currentlygoing through a very tough time sleepwise with my 8 month old.

I have got into the habit of always feeding to sleep. Occasionally she will accept rocking during the night but this is rare! She is currently waking every hour or 2 hours in a good night. Sometimes like last night it can be every 20 mins for a period too. Each time she wakes she will feed between 15-30 mins and then fall asleep. As soon as she stops feeding I transfer her to the cot. However if it’s a bad night I might bedshare for some of the night too. When bedaharing I can settle her with a back stroke for some of the wake ups.

So my question is.... how do I help us get more sleep? I guess I have been helping her too much to get to sleep? Currently I am very tired and cannot handle the stress of her crying at all. So can you suggest any truly gentle methods? Part of me is considering bedsharing for more of the night but I am worried about how I would stop in the future? If I do nothing and continue to feed to sleep will she eventually be able to sleep for 4 hour plus stretches?

Thank you!

This is a fab thread, thank you so much for all your time you are spending in answering every ones questions!

Hi! Kerry here.

You are so welcome and this sounds so tough and tiring for you. Without assessing your sleep story fully it's difficult to pinpoint for sure why your baby's sleep is so disturbed BUT it's nothing you are doing wrong I promise!

It sounds like you may benefit from personalised support and all the details can be found here:

try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

Sending you all the sleep solidarity!

My 16m old wakes up at 11.30pm and 4am screaming blue murder. 1>10000 in less than 10 seconds.

We've tried gradual weaning, cio, more bananas, more food during the day etc

He's always been very 'reactive' to development leaps so is it just that his brain is still refusing to link the sleep cycles? What else can we try? I haven't had more than 4hrs sleep since I was 3 months pregnant.

I'm on the verge of bribing a boarding school to take him 2yrs early! 😂 Help!

Hi , welcome back to Wellvine's live Q&A session on babies and toddlers sleeping habits. I am Sam Saunders and looking forward to helping as many of you as I can .

Chat soon
Sam

@AlphaBravo

My 16m old wakes up at 11.30pm and 4am screaming blue murder. 1>10000 in less than 10 seconds.

We've tried gradual weaning, cio, more bananas, more food during the day etc

He's always been very 'reactive' to development leaps so is it just that his brain is still refusing to link the sleep cycles? What else can we try? I haven't had more than 4hrs sleep since I was 3 months pregnant.

I'm on the verge of bribing a boarding school to take him 2yrs early! 😂 Help!

Hi , he sounds like a cheeky monkey but fun aside you must be exhausted and I fully understand. You mentioned you have tried different approaches, with any sleep training and there are gentle methods you can try it will take consistency. It can take a couple of weeks for them to except any changes, so stick to your chosen method and hang in there.

Good Luck
Sam

@StinkySaurus

Sorry to post another question. Currentlygoing through a very tough time sleepwise with my 8 month old.

I have got into the habit of always feeding to sleep. Occasionally she will accept rocking during the night but this is rare! She is currently waking every hour or 2 hours in a good night. Sometimes like last night it can be every 20 mins for a period too. Each time she wakes she will feed between 15-30 mins and then fall asleep. As soon as she stops feeding I transfer her to the cot. However if it’s a bad night I might bedshare for some of the night too. When bedaharing I can settle her with a back stroke for some of the wake ups.

So my question is.... how do I help us get more sleep? I guess I have been helping her too much to get to sleep? Currently I am very tired and cannot handle the stress of her crying at all. So can you suggest any truly gentle methods? Part of me is considering bedsharing for more of the night but I am worried about how I would stop in the future? If I do nothing and continue to feed to sleep will she eventually be able to sleep for 4 hour plus stretches?

Thank you!

This is a fab thread, thank you so much for all your time you are spending in answering every ones questions!

Hi , we are so pleased you're enjoying this open discussion time all week. I think as Kerry has said a 1-2 -1 with one of us with a full plan would be the best idea and then we can discuss with you the whole 24 hr picture and what you have or have not tried already. I have attached the link below again

try.wellvine.co.uk/wellvine_mumsnet/

Thanks Sam

Hello!

I have a 2 and a 6 year old. The 6 year old is terrified of being alone in his own room. This means he refuses to fall asleep in his own room, even if me or dh are upstairs in another room. Even if we get him to sleep in his own bed, he will wake up and come into our bed, and refuse to leave. In order for any of us to get any sleep, we end up all in the same bed. I think forcing him will be more damaging to him, as he does seem genuinely scared, and I believehe may suffer from anxiety (just like his mum!)
My 2 year old is a bit better, and will at least sleep in his own bed. However, he normally wakes about 3am, and in the time it takes to walk into our room, is wide awake, and can then be up for at least 1 hour.
I've not had a full night sleep in over 6 years. Please help!

@LoudestRoar

Hello!

I have a 2 and a 6 year old. The 6 year old is terrified of being alone in his own room. This means he refuses to fall asleep in his own room, even if me or dh are upstairs in another room. Even if we get him to sleep in his own bed, he will wake up and come into our bed, and refuse to leave. In order for any of us to get any sleep, we end up all in the same bed. I think forcing him will be more damaging to him, as he does seem genuinely scared, and I believehe may suffer from anxiety (just like his mum!)
My 2 year old is a bit better, and will at least sleep in his own bed. However, he normally wakes about 3am, and in the time it takes to walk into our room, is wide awake, and can then be up for at least 1 hour.
I've not had a full night sleep in over 6 years. Please help!

Hi ,
thank you for your question.
let's chat about your older 6 year old first. Maybe chat with him about his fears and reassure him you are always there. If you do want to change things then You could try having a mattress on his floor and sleeping in with him so he gets used to his space and then try some gradual retreat sleep training. If though you are happy with him being in with you then that's fine and he will when ready be happy in his own room.
If your 3-year-old is still napping in the day it may be time to look at that, if you say his up in the night wide awake, it may be he knows his big bro is in with you so wants to join the cuddle. Again chatting with him in the day and explaining you are always there and if you want him to stay in his own room then explain that to him. Often sticker charts work well at this age and saying he gets a sticker for going back to his bed after coming into you. My guess is though he sees his big bro and wants to join in.

Good Luck
Sam

Hi, my 3 year old has always been a poor sleeper.

At present we lie with him in his bedroom until he falls asleep in his bed (usually within 10 minutes). He then wakes up in the night and climbs into our bed, half the time we don't even know he's got in until the morning.

We're both getting fed up of having him in our bed, how can we persuade him to stay in his room all night, have tried offering rewards, it doesn't work, most of the time he's half asleep and in a daze when he comes in.

Thanks @WellVineSam I think part of my issue is worrying what other people think, so it's nice to see it's ok for him to still be in with us

Hi Maryanne,

I have a 2.5 year old and since April she has refused to sleep in her own bed and will scream blue murder. We've tried staying in the room til she sleeps, crying it out, putting her back in when she wakes up but nothing happens or changes. She has since April slept once or twice in her own bed all night but for the rest has been in our bed and/or a bed in our room

Any advice that you can give to get her into her own bed? We've tried spending time in her room, playing in there, giving her the choice for bed spread/ toys/ nightlight.

Thanks!

Hello! I sleep trained all 3 of my toddlers and it worked well (we did controlled crying with 2 minute intervals). Now my smallest is 18 months old, and seems to be going through a sleep regression. He wakes at 5.30am every day, naps 12 till 1pm, and bed at 7pm.
The early waking is driving us crazy, and when he goes to bed at night he bounces in his cot and cries on and off for an hour.
What can I do? He shares a room with his brothers but they're very good at going to sleep.

What is your favourite brand of baked beans?

@Iliveinazoo

Hi, my 3 year old has always been a poor sleeper.

At present we lie with him in his bedroom until he falls asleep in his bed (usually within 10 minutes). He then wakes up in the night and climbs into our bed, half the time we don't even know he's got in until the morning.

We're both getting fed up of having him in our bed, how can we persuade him to stay in his room all night, have tried offering rewards, it doesn't work, most of the time he's half asleep and in a daze when he comes in.

Hi, Sam here,
thanks for explaining about your little ones night travels into your bed .
This is very normal for little ones of his age, often they are starting nursery or moving classes and just need extra reassurance. Also, who wouldn't want to snuggle in with mum and dad.

There are a couple of things you could try and persuading him is not one that's working for him.
I would think about some gentle gradual retreat sleep training so that he will after time be able to fall asleep happily and independently without you in the room with him, this may well help him when he wakes in the night go back to sleep independently.
Its also taking him back to bed each time he does wake, easier said then done I know when you don't always notice him climbing in, but try as best you can.
Whatever you decide its explaining to him that you would like him to sleep in his own bed and that he might want to come for some reassurance but that he needs to back to his own bed.

Good luck
Sam

@ohshitonit

Hello! I sleep trained all 3 of my toddlers and it worked well (we did controlled crying with 2 minute intervals). Now my smallest is 18 months old, and seems to be going through a sleep regression. He wakes at 5.30am every day, naps 12 till 1pm, and bed at 7pm. The early waking is driving us crazy, and when he goes to bed at night he bounces in his cot and cries on and off for an hour. What can I do? He shares a room with his brothers but they're very good at going to sleep.

Hi , sounds like you have your hands full.
Your youngest at 18 months is certainly at a classic age for some sleep regression. I would maybe look at his length of nap at lunchtime, would he sleep a little longer? Early waking can be just a stage and getting yourself super early is the key to that one while it rides out but it can be down to being overtired. This also goes hand in hand with mucking about at bedtime. So if he will sleep longer say another 30-40 minutes at lunchtime then maybe worth a try. If not then getting him to bed half an hour earlier so that his not so overtired then may help with both the nights and settling.
I hope this helps.

Sam