Controlled crying - moving from attachment parenting to abandonment parenting?

[tinkerbellhadpiles]

I know this is going to get a few people annoyed so I've put my special teflon knickers and fireproof boots on first. This is a genuine question:
I don't get controlled crying. I've spent a long time thinking about this (mostly at 2am when my DD wakes up hungry). If you put yourself in the place of the child, is this not a movement from attachment parenting to abandonment parenting
You spend all day lavishing attention on your child, when the little one cries you comfort him or her, sacrificing your time to do anything else in favour of looking after her.
Then seven a clock rolls round and you suddenly start ignoring her, until she learns that you just abandon her at nights and gives up and goes to sleep through exaustion or frustration.
To my mind controlled crying is an oxymoron, a child cries because they are out of control, frustrated, hungry or frightened. And if you are sitting there on the stairs sobbing because you can hear her (as a lot of my friends do) then you aren't in control either. Is it just a battle of wills or is there a genuine bit of science in here?
Seriously, will someone PLEASE explain how this actually works?
Incidentally, I don't have a much better solution, my DD (five months) sleeps 7-2:30, has a feed and sleeps till about 6ish. We just deal with it now and honestly I don't mind now I'm used to it. She did wake up every hour for a month when she got to three and a half months and I was fairly psychotic after a week of it and did pick up, put down and that worked to get to the above situation.

victory over what?

Daddyj,
My mother apparently followed cc to the letter, but I was obviously one of those babies upon whom it didn't work. Reading between the lines, cc eventually turned into cio. Which didn't work either, until I was too damaged to scream any longer.

The opening statement of my last post read 'SOMETIMES I think that one can do too much reading'. I didn't say that one shouldn't do ANY reading. I simply think that SOMETIMES it can confuse the issue and make one question ones instincts. But of course, you don't have any maternal instincs to question, do you?

Danceswithbaby, thanks for the feedback and clarification.
Going from failed CC to CIO sounds like a very risky undertaking.

Just saw your support thread, congratulations on your success with NCSS.
That thread was brilliant, btw. I can?t believe it originally started in September 2006!

The way I make up for my lack of maternal instincts is to run everything by dw who then calls the shots.
In the early days dw was far too tired to do any researching so I scoured the web,
bookmarked the books etc to give her as much information to review as possible.

What clinched our decision to go with CC was the NCSS support thread.
I printed all of it out when it had been going for 2 months.
At the same time there had been 2 CC support threads that sprung up and finished within a week or two
? with all mothers succeeding in settling their children.
I printed those two out, too.

My wife?s maternal instincts told her that if there is no medical reason against using CC then there was no contest between 2 months vs 2 weeks.
My paternal instincts (for all their worth in your eyes) concurred. And we could not find any averse medical evidence so we went for it.

We might have taken a different route from you but that does not stop my wife and I from being grateful to you and the other mums on the NCSS thread.
It?s the diversity of opinions and approaches on Mumsnet that makes it such a valuable and rich resource.

"There are situations where that chart works, but it doesn't work for everyone. When I get a letter that says, 'We've been using your technique for six weeks and he cries all night'-I think that's horrible. That's very cruel.""

More words from the lips of Dr Ferber himself to back up what Danceswithbaby said.

DJ, no need to read your links. I read Ferber's book. Question is, did you read his book before you embarked on CCing your DD at was it 3(?) months?

so what did the Brits win. Which brits do you mean or are you not just an eejit but a bigoted eejit?

here is an aussie website you will approve of. here

this is the bit i am very interested in:

What if my baby vomits?
Up to 20% of babies may vomit during controlled comforting. These are often the more feisty babies. If this happens, quietly and calmly clean up any vomit from the bed and put a clean nappy wrap under the baby?s head. Avoid making a big fuss, turning on lights, or completely changing the baby unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, some babies learn to vomit each time they are put into the cot.

I would be interested to read the Centre for Community Child Health's research that says leaving a child to cry until they vomit is ok. I would also be interested to find information on SIDS that states nothing should be added to the cot other than a fitted sheet and blankets tucked in tight over a baby sleeping on their back.

i am also dead interested in YOUR definition of Controlled Crying, especially since I agree with you that lots of people call lots of things CC. they also call in cute euphemisms like 'controlled comforting' and 'self soothing' , designed no doubt to ease the conscience of parents but not the stress of babies. What do they mean by those terms.

pray, enlighten us.

i prefer the term 'sleep training' myself.

Kiskidee and the voices in her head are back! Yay!!!

Just give us a second, first a post for morningpaper.

What?s with the frown, morningpaper? Not having a good time?

I am not sure which way next with regard to you and kiskidee.

On the one hand, kiskidee seems to enjoy coming back for more so I am happy to keep her entertained.
Better she directs her weird abuse at me than at a sleep-deprived mother.

And I would quite like to see an acknowledgement that you and her made a serious error of judgement in spreading the anti-CC lies you found on the web.

On the other hand, does it really matter?

I am looking at the sleep threads now and I see a hugely supportive, honest community spirit.

There is the magnificent ?Sleep is for the weak? thread where mothers give and receive bags of moral support ? not moral judgement.

There are threads by AP parents, there are threads by CC parents, all getting positive answers and ideas.

And have a look at rothera?s and morocco?s post on crossedwires?s CC support thread : there is a way to offer a different perspective without bullying or lying.

Inspired? I hope so.

i see you are giving yourself another self congratulatory wank dj.

how you got around to making a baby, i really don't know.

lol.

have a good weekend! hope the sun shines on your patch of blighty ole boy.

You are such a vile, abusive person.

Your biggest problem, kiskidee, is your obsession with certain childcare experts.
Now that you are not allowed to rant about the one you really want to rant about, you go on about Ferber. Why don?t you write him a letter?

This is the guy who suggested a method that you think psychologically damages children. Why are you so busy promoting him? Is it compulsory to have read his book before doing CC?

Dw and I subscribe to a notion that is at the core of the Attachment Parenting belief:
We trust our instincts, backed up by all the advice we can get. We had sufficient advice on CC, there was no need to buy Ferber?s book and do the chart thing.
I am sorry if you missed out on commission

Daddy J, Kikisdee has just let slip on the other thread that she had her baby in full time daycare from four months. Some attachment parenting!

Kiskidee, I am so so sorry it had to come to this.
Do you remember my posts on the other thread? The ones between the 200 and 300 mark?
How many times did I say to you that we should stop, that we should shake hands on the compromise we had arrived at?
Do you remember me apologising to you for not wanting to carry on (?lo siento, I really don?t want to do this?)?

Do you know why that was? Because I knew we would get to this point if we didn't stop.

This is a really sad moment.

I owe you, kiskidee. You gave me the Dr. Jay Gordon link. I can?t be angry with you, not for long anyway

I respect your beliefs. You have inspired me with those beliefs.

But you cannot bully or tell lies, it is just not right.

i didn't let that slip aloha.

and i have never described myself as an AP.

daddyj gave me that title.

i see you believe what he says because he also cc'd his dd.

who CC'd your child? was it really you?

Aloha, thank you for the kind words.

Let's stop talking about cc/ap/ferber and all the rest of it, kiskidee.

Let's talk about you - why are you so angry?

thank you for finally crediting me with dr jay gordon's link.

i am very interested in your definition of controlled crying as you seem to think that Dr Gordon's advocates CC.

reading your first post to danceswithbaby suggests that CC has a narrower definition.

And who cared for your baby in the day K? Was it really you?

And don't tell me you are angry at me, I know that, but you have been angry well before I joined Mumsnet.

What is going on with you?

Can we ever work out some kind of compromise?

I have given you credit for the Gordon link right from the start. You don't read my posts, kiskidee. Why not?

i am not angry. i am havin a larf.

i remember you saying that you had to come on mn and post for the first time because i was attacking cc.

how do you attack an idea? does it hurt when it is attacked? does it give a damn if it is attacked?

why do you feel you have to defend something you experimented on on your 2 month old baby then come on MN and pretend you know so bloomin much?

What's the point of me answering your queries when you don't read my answers properly?

i scan you posts normally because sometimes you talk a pile of shite.

And now my dd was 2 months old when I did CC?! By the time this thread is finished you will accuse me of doing CC while my girl was in the womb

Well, unfortunately you miss all the good stuff that I strategically hide in the excrement

no compromise considered till you tell me your definition of CC.

and

if you really did do lots of research before you CC your baby, then why did you do it on a 2 month old.

just curious as the logic don't fit.