Controlled crying - moving from attachment parenting to abandonment parenting?

[tinkerbellhadpiles]

I know this is going to get a few people annoyed so I've put my special teflon knickers and fireproof boots on first. This is a genuine question:
I don't get controlled crying. I've spent a long time thinking about this (mostly at 2am when my DD wakes up hungry). If you put yourself in the place of the child, is this not a movement from attachment parenting to abandonment parenting
You spend all day lavishing attention on your child, when the little one cries you comfort him or her, sacrificing your time to do anything else in favour of looking after her.
Then seven a clock rolls round and you suddenly start ignoring her, until she learns that you just abandon her at nights and gives up and goes to sleep through exaustion or frustration.
To my mind controlled crying is an oxymoron, a child cries because they are out of control, frustrated, hungry or frightened. And if you are sitting there on the stairs sobbing because you can hear her (as a lot of my friends do) then you aren't in control either. Is it just a battle of wills or is there a genuine bit of science in here?
Seriously, will someone PLEASE explain how this actually works?
Incidentally, I don't have a much better solution, my DD (five months) sleeps 7-2:30, has a feed and sleeps till about 6ish. We just deal with it now and honestly I don't mind now I'm used to it. She did wake up every hour for a month when she got to three and a half months and I was fairly psychotic after a week of it and did pick up, put down and that worked to get to the above situation.

but you don't completely abandon them - if you're doing it properly you go back in at regular intervals and gently reassure so they know that you HAVEn'T abandoned them.....

Seriously?

I think having a title that effectly calls CC 'abandonment parenting' means that you are unlikely to get many takers for the thread.

I could, of course be wrong.

I'd never do controlled crying with a 5mth old to be honest, way too young imo.

i'm with you tinkerbell

and I'll tell you how it works - a baby won't go to sleep unless being pushed outside in the pushchair or attached to mums breast. Once they're alseep they CAN NOT be moved (or they wake up immidiately). This means that they co-sleep (not a problem with the parents) but that once baby goes to bed mummy has to go to bed too. This baby then wakes up every hour and feeds for 1hr all night, EVERY night for 6 whole months.

The parents have tried EVERYTHING and eventually resort to CC. The first night is hard - it takes nearly 3 hours of repeatedly going back into the room for the baby to go to sleep.........but he sleeps the WHOLE night - and the next day is a really happy little baby (rather than screaming most of the day). The night next takes only 30 minutes again no waking up in the night and after that 10 minutes each night fora bout 2 weeks. Then suddenly he only cries as you walk out the door, stops and then goes to sleep happily.

The baby is much happier (as he's getting the sleep he wasn't getting before) and so are the parents as they're actually getting some sleep.

With a child aged 5mths I'd be more inclined to offer a dream feed than still be feeding in the night but I assume you've tried that already?

my version of CC goes like this

middle of the night dd3 wakes up screaming at11 every night. so i lie on my bed next to her cot trying to sleep, gouing shush shush, sleep time now and she goes to sleep. took almost 2 years to get to that point. she is happier now as she sleep 7pm-6am without waking i am happy as i dont get woken every hour from 11pm onwards.

and my understanding is that CC is not advised for a child as young as 5 months

Scottish Thistle -We do dreamfeed at 10 hence her going to 2am. I don't mind my sleep situation with DD, she's a poppet most of the time.

Those of you who've tried it: Does a child seriously feel better to know you are at arms length, rather than hands on comforting them though?

Seriously, I'm not judging anyone, we each do it their own way, I just don't understand how it would work - I mean neurologically, a baby learns through their experiences right?

So my DD has learned that if she smiles I smile back and vice versa. Or if I do the 'quiet-time/bath/milk/cuddles/cot she knows that it's sleep time. But she also knows that if she's scared ands cries for me DH or I will be in there pronto to make whatever problem it is go away (usually hunger in her case but sometimes bring cold).

So I've trained her effectively to believe that she's really very important and to be confident that her needs will be met. I actually think most parents would say they do the same. Which is why, to me CC seems like a really nonsensical idea.

Do the kids have daytime reactions to this as well? My friend did CC with her DD (same age) and the child honestly was very quiet over the next week, withdrawn. I know that this isn't necc. a causal relationship (she could have needed a poo or had any number of other reasons for looking sad) but I just wondered.

Well don't know what to say here, but I seriously think my dd is being bloody minded about naps.

As soon as she goes down the screaming starts whether I am in or out of room. If I stay with her long term, she starts giggling and getting hyper, even though I completely ignore her and avoid eye contact, apart from hand on her tummy, saying go to sleep.

This can go on for hours, and I am completely sick to teeth of it. She gets overtired and eventually I have to leave room to calm down.

Left her to cry twice today although kept popping back. Both times she fell asleep, instead of usual long winded palava. I was at my wits end and at screaming point with her behaviour. I didn't particularly like CC, but really feel I was left with no option. My presence seemed to wind her up even more.

Sometimes I feel you have no choice, if you want to han onto your sanity

tinkerbell...
well, am not the greatest fan of CC, dispite having used it succesfully used it with ds2...
The reason I used it for him was, that from 6 month on he wouldn't go to sleep at all...and after trying all other methods, by 10 month I decided that tough love was needed.
Yes, I felt awful, yes I wasn't proud, but no, I didn't do it, because I wanted a full nights sleep, I did it because my ms needed at least some sleep....he started looking ill from sleep deprivation....I did a very gentle method, the longest I ever let him cry for was 3 minutes, then I would go in, and sooth him until he was a bit more settled and put him down again...
Took 2 nights and the 3. night he had his breastfeed and fell asleep fine after.
His energy levels improved, and he started to look well again....rather then big bags under his eyes...
so, go ahead and judge me...don't care, tbh!
On the other hand...I would never have entertained that idea with ys, as he did this blue breatholding thing...so..with him that method would not have been one that I felt comfy with....but then, with him we never had those issues in the first place...because I decided to generally ignore HV's advice....the reason we got to that state wiht ms was, because the HV's felt he didn't need night feeds and I should offer water instead, and that was something he didn't agree with and decided to not go to sleep ....

However good you are, you can only go part of the way to meeting your babies needs, and removing sources of distress.

Everything is brand new.
Gravity? What a sick joke - now where's that rattle.
Wind? Aaarghh my belly is splitting in two!
I've pins and needles in my arm, mum, the left one!
Clothes?! Why? Whats wrong with that lovely amniotic fluid. I said noooo! No vest; not over my head; I'm blind!

We don't worry too much about this stuff -there's not much you can do about it. The baby gets used to it as 'that's the way things are'.

The logic behind cc, imo, is to make sleep like another of these type of things, that you should just accept. The crying happens over the first few nights 'transitional' stage, after which the baby adapts.

Fizzbuzz - How old is your little darling?
They can wind you up can't they. My DD smiles every time she sees me - even at 2am and if I didn't know better I'd say it was sometimes a smirk! But I don't honestly think they do it delivery. She's just very happy to see her mummy - apparently daddy gets no smiles at all!

Kif - thanks, that's a good explanation, but I'm stil wondering what that teaches babies - that when it's dark, everyone disappears? That when it's dark mummy and daddy ignore me, or something else?

The theory behingd it is:
a Baby that is old enough (i.e. it wouldn't really work the same way with a youn baby, certianly not under 6 month, and even 6 month is cutting it a bit tight) to realise that their efforts of crying will not bring endless cuddles...i.e. their behaviour isn't rewarded...iykwim...
however, CC is a completely different thing to CIO,where the child is sort of abondoned, I suppose...

well tinker are you talking about Controlled Crying though, or letting a Baby Cry it out?

Scottish - what is the difference with dream feeding?

I'm playing devils advocate - btw .

I'm a fan of the baby whisperer.

However, I think parents do sometimes take on too much guilt and try to 'carry'all their child's burdens (well into childhood, but that's a whole other convo). I don't think there is anything wrong with 'negotiating' in an age appropriate sensitiveway with even the tiniest baby.

Babies have important wider needs - such as being able to draw on physical and emotional health of their family. I'd rather my mother had dealt with my sleep problems firmly than that she and my dad divorced through pressures caused by long term sleep deprivation.

"Do the kids have daytime reactions to this as well? My friend did CC with her DD (same age) and the child honestly was very quiet over the next week, withdrawn. I know that this isn't necc. a causal relationship (she could have needed a poo or had any number of other reasons for looking sad) but I just wondered."

IME absolutely not - well not in the negative sense. DS1 was appalling during teh day (and night) he would hardly sleep at all and was really restless and fretful during the day. Even after the first night (where it took nearly 3hrs for him to settle - but then never woke during the night) he was SO much happier it was like having a different baby. He was getting the sleep he needed at night and consequently became a really lovely little baby during the day.....

tinker - I think it teaches that 'day' and 'night' just happen, where at night time one either sleeps or twiddles ones thumbs. Parents are around but curiously inneffective.

and I should add that of course DS1 (who we used the CC with) woke up sometimes in the night - not very often - but when he did we knew it was for a serious reason - not just because he didn't know how to get himself back off to sleep.

my ds3 pissed me abptu for two eyars till we lost ( by accident honest) the cup he iked to dirnk from

he never woke again

Do you need to Tink? Are you thinking about using it?...
i don't get BLW but i don't need to.
Different horses for different courses and all that i reckon

Sorry I assumed as you said she was going 7-2am that you weren't doing a dream feed.

This won't be very popular but....
My definition of abandonment would go something like this: parents get so exausted due to constant tending to resless baby (or babies in my case) that they can't exchange a civil word....mum spends most of the time that dad's around in bed, so they don't have any opportunity to invest in their relationship...which eventually falls apart. One parent leaves (possibly after lots of screaming & shouting), thus REALLY abandoning the child and modelling some pretty disfuntional relationship behaviour in to the bargain (behaviour which is likely to be repeated by current-baby in adulthood). Please, lets be realistic. Parenthood has to work for parents as well as children.
I am already preparing for the brick bats btw!