How can I stop BFing to sleep?

[ArtichokeTagine]

My 7 month old DD has always been breastfed to sleep. If she wakes in the night I breastfeed her then too. She is addicted to the breast - using it as a sleep aid, a comforter and a food source. If we lay her in the cot awake, or try to cuddle or rock her to sleep she screams and screams. They only other way she falls asleep is in the car or pram. Often I bf her to sleep and she wakes as I lie her down and I have to start all over again.

I return to work in 8 weeks and 3 nights a week DP will put her to bed. We have to find a way to get her to sleep without the breast and we need to start now so she can be eased in gently. What can we do? I do not agree with straight cc.

Contact the Naturally Nurturing Sleep clinic - they can take you through pu/pd which isn't CC but which will get you there quicker than NCSS/GW. You can find out about Pu/pd in the Baby Whisperers' books but I found it helpful to be guided through it.

What is GW, nearly three?

I assume that by NCSS you meanThe No-Cry Sleep Solution . IMO it has a lot of good tips, but didn't quite live up to its name.

My dd1 was very dependant on bfing to sleep when she was younger. CC was a terrible and ineffective mistake, and PUPD didn't work for us. In the end we waited until she was a bit older, then instituted night weaning and explained to her that DH would be putting her to bed and if she woke in the night she would have cuddles instead of milk. There were lots of tears initially but because DH was with her, and offering cuddles and comfort, it wasn't nearly as bad as CC. If she woke in the night before 5.30, again we would offer her cuddles instead of milk. After 5.30 she was allowed to bf. After a week or so we cracked it, and her sleep was much better thereafter.

DD just woke so going to have to go and feed... Melpomene, I would love to wait until I can explain it but I have the work deadline looming so I can't. Nearlythree - I was also wondering what GW is? I could try PU/PD but knowing DD I think the picking up would just overstimulate her and prolong the crying. Also she never stops crying when I pick her up, she needs the breast to stop.

GW - Gradual withdrawl. Very similar to NCSS which I loved to read but ultimately didn't work for us. We found gradual withdrawl worked with dd1 when she was 2 but with dd2 (who was bfed) we had to cold turkey the bf, then go for a mix of GW and rapid return - she was 22 mo when I stopped bf and 2yrs 3 mo when we got her to sleep on her own - I'd just had ds!

Artichoke, it would have to be DP that does the PU/PD.

Does she take a bottle at all? (expressed breast milk or formula). I never managed to get either of mine to take a bottle, but in your situation, even if your dd is resistent to bottles it could be worth perservering, trying different teats, positions etc. I know some people have succeeded getting bf babies to take bottles using NUK teats or the Adri breast bottle. Maybe she could learn to get comfort from a bottle when your DP is putting her to bed?

Or alternatively, you could invest in one of these

Thanks Melponeme and NearlyThree. Sorry I had to run off last night. Re bottles - DD will reluctantly suck from a Nuk teat and we are trying to get her to take more from it. She certainly finds no comfort from it at this stage.

Well tonight I bit the bullet and lay DD in the cot awake after her feed. This was 35 minutes ago. She went mental - scream after piercing scream, rolling onto her tummy, clawing at the side of the cot. I sat next to the cot shushing and occassionally stroking her head. After about 10mins it became clear that my being there, but ignoring her, was driving her crazy so I moved to the other side of the room but never left her. She cried for 22 minutes in total and then fell asleep. It was horrible and maybe by staying I made it worse for both of us but I could not abandon her. I had thought it would be more than 22 mins so for that I am grateful. She could of course wake up at any moment and then we will have to do it again... I feel horrible but like it was necessary - we will see what happens .

Artichoketagine - I had to do the same, all other methods failed. The only difference was that I left the room and went back at 5 and 7 minutes, I was going to go back at 9 but she fell asleep - we have never looked back. This was just over 3 weeks ago. Now I BF her and she falls asleep (which we both enjoy) but the difference is that she can settle herself because when I lift her to put her in the cot she wakes. Before she would scream blue murder and this would go on for hours - BF/Cot/Scream - a vicious cycle. Now she cuddles into me as I lift her and as she lays down she sticks her thumb in her mouth and is asleep before I leave the room. She still wakes at night, sometimes very frequently, but I know that if she won't go down there is something wrong and so BF/cuddle/give teething gel etc etc depending on the problem.
I know it was hard but if you persevere over the next day or two you should see a huge difference.
To sum it up - she still gets the BF to sleep but without the hours of crying we had before - I know it sounds wierd that we got there by 1 night of CC, there were tears for a while - but very brief ones and it worked for us.

Oh and I did the same thing for naps - took a couple of days but the crying was much shorter - if they are a prob too, I would suggest biting the bullet now rather than putting you both through it again later.
Good Luck and I hope she continues to sleep

Thanks Ruth. How old is your DD?

I feel terrible but I think we are right to do this. So far she has stayed asleep. She is not usually too bad about waking a lot at night - the problem is the going down. Did you tackle naps at the same time? I was not going to as I thought it might be too much for her all at once. I thought that if we could sort the nights I would consolidate that and then tackle the naps.

I can't beleive it was only 21mins. I hope it is less tomorrow. I have a horrible feeling that it could get worse.

We had to do this with DS (now 6mnths). I'm a complete wuss when it comes to CC so I did gradual withdrawal (which I assume is GW). It is slow but by the time you go back to work you should be off the boob. On teh first night you don't BF but rock to sleep and do this for two more nights, then you hold to sleep for three nights but no rocking, then three nights of cuddling in cot. Itis all outlined in the Millpond sleep book (really recommend this). DS now settles himself without a dummy or breast. Hooray!!

artichoke - I could have written this thread myself! ds only goes to bed at bedtime after a breast-fest! He will not tolerate being rocked, shhd,patted, cradled or anything else. In the early hours(he wakes frequently some nighes) he only wants boob to get hm off to sleep again. The only solution I can see working with him is cold turkey but I am not strong enough to hear him screaming and he does not give in (sounds like yours). Also I ahve a dd who goes to school so she cannot be subjected to nighttime wakings and he is VERY loud!
I will read through all your posts after school run as I am intrested to see what you end up doing.

DD is 27 weeks tomorrow - I did it slightly before 6 months. I did do naps at the same time, I decided to stay home to get her into a bit of a routine so I was not giving her mixed messages eg nap in the cot in the morning then walk around town in the afternoon and she sleeps then. We do that now but she is used to her cot as well so is happy with either. It took about 3 days for her to go for a nap in the cot without any crying, and even now she complains a little (usually if she is overtired).
The naps do get a bit muddled occasionally eg today she was asleep in the pram at her late morning nap and someone bumped into us and she woke up, she only got 10 minutes which was enough to keep her going for a while but then she got grumpy earlier than usual and so she is having to have an extra nap now which will mean a bit of a later bedtime.
I think your whole attitude to crying changes once you accept that a short amount of crying is just them settleing themselves. I don't mean screaming and tears for half an hour (like the first night) but anything from a few seconds to a couple of minutes of tired whining (do you know what I mean? my DD has a different cry for this).
HTH Keep us posted on progress - Good Luck. Your DS will be so much happier in a day or two.

Oh my God. So tonight was our second night of going to bed without the boob. Last night, after the 21 mins of crying, she slept 'til I woke her for a dream feed at 10pm then she slept through to 5am when she decided she was awake for the day (hmmm - this is becoming abit of a habit). She cried out twice during the night but settled herself before I even had time to get out of bed (very unusual for her - she always needs the boob to settle). We did not tackle naps today - I fed her to sleep for the morning nap and pushed round the park for her afternoon nap.

This evening I did the same routine as last night then lay her in the cot and she cried out BUT had stopped by the time I shut her door. 10 seconds of crying. 10 seconds on the second night. I cannot believe this. I imagine it might be a fluke. I cannot explain how reliant she is on the boob - she sounds just like Cruisemum's son. She has always needed the boob to settle and is very upset and very cross if not given it. This is why I could not use GW as rocking etc infuriates her as much as being lain in the cot. Anyway I am rambling now. I am just so pleased and shocked.

Please all keep yours fingers crossed that this continues.

artichoke - you have given me hope! my ds just cannot fall asleep without boob or buggy. He gets into a terrible state when I have tried pu/pd or similar which is why i won't do it. Funny though, last night he woke twice and grizzled himself back to sleep and after he went down this evening (from boob of course) he grizzeld three times and settled himself to sleep. so he can do it but not all the time. What, in your experience, should I do?

I am afraid I do not have any magic advice Cruisemum. I guess what I did last night was CC even though I stayed in the room. Maybe it has worked - the early signs are obviously good. BUT I would never advise anyone else they should do it. Despite what I have done I am not at all sure that CC is the right thing to do to a small baby who cannot understand why Mummy is not comforting like she normally does. Having said that I am so happy tonight and I really feel we are making progress towards DD being able to cope with me going back to work (the bottle is our next hurdle). Previous attempts I have made have been much more gentle (from NCSS) and have not worked for us (although they felt much nicer to do). Good luck. I will keep you posted with our progress.

Artichoke i lurk on mn a lot don't post v often but just wanted to offer support. Went through the same as you when my dd was around 4 - 5 months old (she's now nearly 8months), had been feeding to sleep since birth unitl then and she was terrible at night. Was desperate to sort both things out and in my experience stopping the feeding to sleep association is what really settled her down at night. They are all different and some things work for some and not for others but we also found that all the NCSS and pu/pd stuff just prolonged the crying and unsettled her, she really wanted to get back to sleep and just needed us to help her learn how to. Good luck with it all I hope it works for you like it did for us!

How is it all going?
Funny you should say that you would not recommend it because I was sooooo! anti CC before we had to use it. But as you say the PU/PD etc just stimulated her even more.
So glad he has responded so well so quickly, this is why people recommend it I suppose but until you are ready in your own head and prepared for the first night there is no point in it. For anyone out there considering CC I would urge - please don't start if you can't go on as it just upsets you all even more.
Keep us posted! Hope you both have a lovely day after your sleepy night

Thank you for your support Sar, Ruth and Cruisemum. Last night was amazing. Not only did she go down with only 10 seconds fuss but she slept through for 11 hours!!! She always wakes up at about 10pm for a dream feed and then sometimes wakes one other time. Last night we did not hear a peep out of her from 6.50pm to 5.45am . Then tonight I put her down fully expecting her to show me that last night was a fluke and that she was still capable of many hours of screaming. But no. Its only been 10 mins but I put her down and she did not make a squeak, nada, nothing. She was silent. I just peaked in and she is fast asleep . Despite my post below about not recommending CC I am bowled over by the transformation after only one night of crying.

DH says I am tempting fate and to shut up before she proves me wrong so I am off to have a glass of wine and some dinner.

Hurrah!!!! long may it continue....But don't worry if something unsettles her for a while again - my dd despite sleepinhg thru at 6 months has since then had periods of waking due to teething, then a cold, then a trip to my in laws (she hated the cot they bought - too small compared to home!). Each time it takes a couple of nights to get back on track but the diference is that you know she can do it (and so can you!!!!). Congrats and have a fab evening.

ARTICHOKE - that is fantastic! you must feel reborn! . makes me wonder if I could do it too..... I really hope it works out for your long term. n'nite, enjoy your rest and your wine!

Hi all, been having a break from the cc threads - needed a laugh instead!
Glad you're all getting your babies to sleep more easily. My dd2, 6 mo, goes down very easily now for naps and at night, still wakes for a bfeed about 5am tho...am going to start weaning soon, just continuing to bfeed but adding some baby rice after 2nd feed of the day and then i'll tackle the 5am feed...she is much more cheerful during the day now she is getting enough sleep...

Thanks guys but maybe I spoke too soon. DD woke at 9.20pm. It was only at that moment that DH and I realised we did not have a plan for unusual wakings. I realised I was not ready to let her cry on waking so I went up and gave her a very quick BF. It took about 4mins. I then laid her back down and although she was awake she did not complain - definitely a good sign. We will see what happens now.

artichoke - you obviously did the right thing!well done

Just a quick update. On Tuesday night, after DD woke at 9.20pm and had a 4 min feed, she went back down happily and slept through to 5am when she was up for the day again. The last night she went down at 6.45pm without a squeak (3rd day in a row). She woke at 11pm for a feed (I think we were ambitious in trying to drop the dream feed as well). I fed her in bed with me and then when we put her down after that feed she cried for about 1 minute then settled until 5.25am when she was up for the day. So far so brilliant except for the early waking.

Today I have decided to tackle her naps. As she is waking so early she tends to have an hour long nap on the boob about 2.5 hours after she wakes. I have heard alot of people say that a long morning nap can cause early waking so today I took her off the boob after 30mins of nap and she woke up. Then 20 minutes ago I decided to try her midday nap in the cot rather than the pram. She has NEVER slept in her cot during the day. She cried for 12 minutes when I laid her down but I kept going in an reassuring her and now she is asleep!! In her cot!!! In the day!!!! It is only 10mins of sleep so far but it is a first and feels like real progess. I hated hearing her cry again and I feel a bit guilty again but the fact is she is asleep on the cot .