Night time 'bad habits' ... the independent baby sleep - support thread for anyone trying to break baby sleep habits

[Millipede170]

This thread is for anyone who routinely 'helps' their LO to get back to sleep when they wake in the night, would like them to start being more independent, but doesn't relish the thought of CC or CIO. Or maybe you've been there and are out the other side and can share your journey/pearls of wisdom (you could be my new hero). What methods have you tried or come up with? Please share ...

scottishbride are you ok? We haven't seen you in a bit! x

Sorry to hear your DS is unwell millie, hope you have a better night than you think & that he's better soon. We've had a sickness bug in our house this past week and teething so had very little sleep since mid week. So much for DD getting better at night.

Sorry to hear your dc is unwell millipede. Good luck for tonight. My DD had her 16 wk immunisations this week and we had the kind of night you would expect after that. She was up for much of it and just so sad! Thankfully things seemed better by morning. I think she is like your DS in that the number of night feeds has gone up, rather than down. For a while it was only one if I was lucky and timed the dream feed right. Then it was pretty much always two. Now it's tending towards 3 at least, unless you count 5am as morning, which I categorically do not. I fear it's only going to get worse! 6 per night, how do you do it??! On the plus side, at least I don't have much trouble actually getting her to go to sleep. I should count my blessings...

Thanks for book recommendations. I shall look out Andrea Grace. The academic in me resists any self-proclaimed authority on anything but it's good to get lots of different perspectives.

Gosh, Ruby, twins! It's good advice about the groups for establishing routines. I confess I am not much of a group-attender, but perhaps I should open my mind to the possibility that it might help with sleep. The tiring out is only going to get more important as she gets older I presume! Are you happy with your boys' wake ups for the time being? Do you work outside the home? This is one fear of mine... how will I cope when I return (and I will have to..)

Can I join please?
Not rtft but read a few posts similar to our story.
Ds is nearly 7mo, we have been doing baby led weaning for the past month, he is ff in the day and bf at night and always has been. We also co sleep.
From about 3mo he was sleeping through around 11-7/8 but the last few weeks he has been going down at 7/8 (I really need that hour at night to tidy/ relax so not possible to keep him up later) but stirring every hour kicking and thrashing about, nothing is settling him tried bf, ff, cuddles, rubbing tummy, teething gel, dummy (which he has NEVER taken so not sure why I try) and I have been known to take him downstairs at 4am to play for half an hour to try and tire him out
I've woken up this morning snappy because I've had 1 hours broken sleep, ds of course is either winjy or wanting to play/ attention constantly.
I think he is teething although he has been showing signs from about 2mo (knawing on anything, dribbling, red cheeks) but still no sign of a single tooth cutting through. He is ff on comfort milk (gps advice) after suspected colic at 3mo plus reflux issues.
I co slept with my parents until I was about 8 and NO WAY is that happening!
We have a next to me crib but apparently thats too far away from me.
Any advice? Just to get him in his own bed in our room, we are going on holiday in a month where I don't feel safe co sleeping so he will have to be in his own bed by then unless we want to be tired and grumpy on holiday

Hi Ticket

Could your DS still be a bit hungry at night? I think this is the case for my DS1, he doesn't eat enough during the day (probably half of what DS2 eats) and is still too reliant on milk, which doesn't fill him up enough to go through the night. Perhaps you could try adding baby rice to something that you feed to him (rather than he feeds to himself - so at least you know how much he's eating!) such as a fruit puree or yoghurt - I used to do this with mine just before bedtime, and it did help a bit.

Also if he's on comfort milk, could you have another chat with your GP/ health visitor about trying something new? Again DS1 had suspected reflux but I knew it wasn't, he's lactose intolerant (like his daddy, unfortunately!) - as soon as he started on Nutramigen he was much better, no tummy cramps. Perhaps your DS is reacting a bit to the formula as well, it might be making him uncomfortable and less able to sleep?

And yes mikesh, we love our groups….. if you get a good one then I can even have a little rest whilst they're entertained sadly not a 'cup of tea and cake in peace' kind of rest, but at least not being jumped on and pestered for half an hour kind of rest! We go to a mixture of paid for private groups (like baby signing) and ones through our local childrens centres. I would recommend swimming too for tiring out children

MrsE I think I'm feeling the same way as you - DS seemed to be in a better sleeping groove, but since all these illnesses (he's got nappy rash now too, I'm kind of expecting another tooth any time) we seem to be sliding backwards He is waking several times a night again but he doesn't really want to come out of his cot, he wants to go back to sleep, but his nose is totally blocked so he can't breathe.

mikesh yes, the '6 wake-ups' phase was complete torture. I was feeding him back to sleep but really it was just comfort nursing - he was only snacking, not taking much milk. I'd try different ways of comforting him that didn't involve boobs but he just wouldn't hear of it until about a month ago, when he suddenly decided that being turned onto his side and having his head stroked was ok [DH thought I should just make him cry it out, but even the idea of it makes me want to cry myself]. The game changer here has definitely been crawling though. I think he is more tired, but also he can get himself comfortable to sleep, which is often on all fours with his bum in the air!

Hi Ticket. Just reading your post, it sounds like the start of the unsettled nights coincides with introducing solids - is that right? Mine was a v windy/tummy achey baby I used to try all the things that you have (endless tummy rubbing, circling knees etc in the night). Homeopathy helped a bit - some chamomile to soothe his digestive system and nat/mag phos to help with acidic tummy. Oh and probiotics (powder form, kept in the fridge, added to his weetabix at breakfast). I think it helped, or his gut may just have matured with time I guess. You could also try cutting out the usual suspects like dairy, wheat, eggs and anything strongly acidic like citrus and tomatoes for a bit and see if that helps?

I'll be following this thread as my 7 month old has been a poor sleeper since birth. HV has recommended CIO..we tried it over Christmas for 2 days but it didn't work and I didn't have the heart to carry on as my little one lost her voice from all the crying!

Evening everyone, hoping everyone is managing on the little sleep we're all getting.

Ticket I've just started to introduce DD to solids (she's 6 months in a few days) and initially thought it was helping her sleep better but then we've gone a little backwards this last week so wondering now if it's causing her a bit of tummy ache. Hard to tell as I'm certain she's teething and the rest of us al had a horrible tummy bug last week so any tummy ache could be attributed to that. Parenting is 99% guesswork!

Millie I hope your DS is soon feeling better. Coughs are so horrid for little ones. At least for pain we can give calpol but coughs (esp the dry ones) make us feel helpless. I hate it when mine have those type of coughs.

Welcome littleguggi, join our sleep deprived group. We did controlled crying when DS was small (about 8 months) and it worked very quickly. By night 3 he cried about 2 mins before going to sleep. It never made him sick but I'm sure if it had I would have stopped. Haven't had to do it yet with DD, she goes to sleep quite well on her own - she just can't stay asleep & we don't want to do it in the night with 2 yo DS asleep in the room across the hall so she ends up in bed with me.

Hi LittleG welcome. Hope you will find something useful amongst our chat/despair!! Why do you think your hv suggested CIO? Have you tried lots of different things/methods before? I am a bit astonished that tit would be recommended at 7 months. My hv suggested CC. I tried that as well for a few nights but didn't see any linear progress which (to me) meant he wasn't ready for it and I also stopped after a few nights.

*that it, not tit. Freudian slip - obviously what I think of your hv!!

Im a little late to the party but i have found my people!! DD3 13 months... currentlt fast asleep in our bed (because you know, her cot is evil) and she will wake at least twixe a night. I went back to work full time a month ago and i am TIRED!!!!

Thanks MrsE. He is just full of mucus, he's coughing on great big chunks of it (sorry TMI). His chest sounds like a rattlesnake, but when I took him to the doc they listened to his chest and said it was clear (?) so they didn't advise I do anything. It's been going on for 4 weeks now. Starting to feel like I ought to get a second opinion.

Hi all! Some of you won't find this helpful but I think some of you might. I have a 22 month old ds. He is my third. I feed him to sleep. Every night. He wakes at night and I feed him back to sleep. If I'm out he goes to sleep when I get back. I have had very few full nights sleep since by middle child was born 8 years ago. And I'm absolutely fine and we're all very happy. You see the thing the books don't teach you is this: while we're worrying about training them they are training us. I need about a third less sleep than I did when my first dd was born 11 years ago. I know how easy it is to sleep train a child who understands everything I say to them and are capable of explaining their fears (about 2.5 - 3 yrs). In the meantime I sometimes nap at the weekend to catch up but mostly I'm fine.

Sorry I just re-read that and it sounded a bit smug! It was supposed to give hope 😊

Thanks Edna, great you've found what works for you and your DCs. It's not the way forward for me but I guess we all fall into our own groove in time.

sleepingbunnies I'm back to work in just over a week too, I'm slightly dreading it. Has your DD gone into childcare while you're at work? Has it affected her nights? I've heard it can go either way...

We're off to the homeopath this morning for DS's chest. It's getting worse rather than better - two big horrible coughing fits in the night that woke him up totally - and the GP doesn't think he can do anything to help. Here's hoping (the homeopath has always been brilliant before so...)

Hello!!! I'm alive!

Sorry it's been so long, my phone went through a phase of reloading the website when I was halfway through a message so I'd lose it and after a few attempts I gave up!

Welcome to all the newbies, this is seriously the best sleep thread ever! Since we started I've had nights sleeping on the floor in the nursery to reassure ds he could sleep, and I've had a dream night of 11-6.30 and a couple of one wakers but generally 3 wake ups a night, 2 feeds which I really want to stop but scared of the crying it will likely involve!!

We are also having a massive phase of standing in the cot , previously for up to an hour before going to sleep, despite multiple put downs! Then more standing on waking in the night!
We are now at a point where I feed him, give him a kiss then put him in cot awake, then dh watches him crawl around for a bit, then sometimes he drops off -ds- if he starts crying he is just lain back down and he's shown that he can settle himself!

Will read back later when on my computer!
Oooo, I think you mentioned nursery Milli. My ds starts in May, I asked them about routines, they said they would follow my routine, when I said I didn't have one I think they were relieved, they offered to start one for me!!! I didn't mention that I have to walk ds in his pram for him to sleep- except the two days lately when it has chucked it down and I've had to rock him!?! He's so heavy I needed a lie down!
Someone asked me about a sling, I keep thinking I should try one but haven't done anything about it since he got too heavy for my stretchy wrap- about 6 months ago!

Scottish you're back!! Bad luck on the technology. It's a killer when it just won't work!! Brilliant about your nursery's approach. They will have their own ways of getting the kids down to sleep. I am hoping our childminder will be able to weave the same magic!

Yep we are in the sitting-bolt-upright phase too. A couple of times a night - just sitting up and bawling. But also going down a treat, for naps and for bed. I'm putting him in his cot, he sits up, pfutzes around for a while and then finds a comfy sleeping position and goes to sleep. It's a few hours down the line that the fun and games start...

But DS still has such a rotten cough and cold (it's been a month now) I can't blame him for waking the whole time. Went to the homeopath today and got 2 remedies for colds (general) and chesty coughs so fingers crossed those will start having an effect soon.

Have a good night everyone xx

Hello all,

I think last night might have been our new record, I swear my DD showed her face every 45 minutes from midnight until dawn. Think it was around 5 before I got any sleep. Woke DP up around 6 to say I'd had enough. Fortunately he doesn't leave for work until 9.30 so that gave me a few uninterrupted hours.

Tonight I am thinking I will just sit it out. What is the point of me lying in bed, knowing full well it will be less than an hour until I am out of it again, trying to sleep but trying to remain on alert simultaneously?? I am sadly not a person who can fall asleep on a whim, even under these deprived circumstances.

Think the cause of all this is that poor DD is really suffering with the teething. At least I assume that is what it is. She is definitely in some kind of pain, as calpol seems to help pretty swiftly. Ive got a couple of other remedies from the chemist today, but if anyone has any top tips, I'd be happy to hear them.

Good luck for the night ahead to all...

O mikesh, I'm sorry.

No tips I'm afraid except adding some brufen to the mix can help with teething. I'm not sure it was teeth but ds was awake for an hour screaming 10.30-11.30. We tried Calpol, new nappy, I rocked and rocked- he would appear to drop off in my arms then ping awake and scream when put down! I thought I'd got him with 100 rounds of Twinkle Twinkle and lying one the floor next to him, but once me and dh had sneaked out, got comfy in bed, 2 minutes later he started again! I fed him back to sleep then as he was a bit calmer- last night was going to be my first night trying to drop a feed - I ended up adding one!!

So spoke loudly about cc with ds this morning- last time I did this he pulled 6 hours out of the bag so fingers crossed!

Milli, I don't think I ever congratulated your ds on such a fantastic Mother's Day present!

mikesh how was last night? I have been there with my DS - every 45 mins to 1 hr throughout the night - it's just plain awful. I always resisted co sleeping because honestly I found it so hard to get comfortable and also my DH would have a go at me about setting bad habits. But I think the times that we did (we had a day bed in his room at the old house) I would at least snatch a couple of hours, rather than being up the whole night. Would it be worth giving it a try? I'm sorry to say it lasted a good couple of weeks with mine, it wasn't teething, it was 'just' a phase. Which says nothing at all about how long your DC will go on for so it doesn't really help you. I'm not sure there's much to do except hang on in there until 2 hourly wake ups start seeming like a luxury You could try giving chamomile though as a remedy for settling. Works for teeth, digestion and calming the whole system. You need a decent strength though - I think the ones from my homeopath are 200c; one pilule morning and evening. And nux vomica for you as you'll be exhausted. Probably also pulsatilla for when you're feeling weepy.

I'm like you, could never just go to sleep. I didn't manage a single nap during the day until DS was about 9 months old, couldn't switch off. In fact this morning DS slept thru til 6 but I woke up at 4 anyway and didn't manage to get back to sleep so I don't think I'm through the hyper-vigilant phase yet....

A big hug to you. It is really bloody hard but you will get through this phase. Keep telling yourself that you are there for your baby when she needs you. Many people would be convincing themselves that leaving their babies to cry is the appropriate response at this stage, but you are an attentive mother and you know better than that. It will get better, I promise.

scottish thank you! DS is doing a lot better at the moment and I really think the thing waking him now is the horrid cough (he's upstairs now trying to nap and hacking away again - I don't think this nap will be very successful). I have started limiting his morning nap now to try and get a longer one out of him at lunchtime, so he can go through til bedtime comfortably. Left to his own devices he'll sleep for 2hrs or more in the mornings but then only does a catnap between midday and bed time, which I don't think is ideal Did you have a go at fiddling with your DS's naps or are you just leaving it up to the nursery to sort out?!

Sorry to hear things are so bad scottish & mikesh. We have had a couple of 'not bad' nights from DD. Last night was really good with only one wake up. Unfortunately DS then woke crying instead. I don't think I'll ever win!

Re teething, anbesol seems to help a little. DD won't take calpol much to my annoyance. Still no teeth have emerged yet but I'm sure she is teething.

Question re weaning, I should know this as I've done it before but when do you start cutting milk intake? DD isn't eating s massive amount of solids yet, just a bit of porridge for breakfast, about 4 baby spoons of some purée for lunch & tea with a couple of carrots/cucumber batons to play with. I don't want to reduce too quickly but I also don't want to overfeed her. She's a chubby one already.

I hope your nights are getting a bit better Mikesh? We've had some shockers this week, DS1 has been up for a couple of hours being hot and restless and generally drinking loads of milk. Then when he wants to sleep in in the mornings DS2 will bounce up with the lark!

For teething we used the teething powders from Boots (own brand ones), Bonjela/ Dentinox and Calprofen. I can speak from personal experience when I say that Dentinox does numb the area, had to pinch a bit to use on a mouth ulcer!

MrsE, my HV advised to reduce milk once they were taking it in other forms as well (in porridge/ cereal, yogurt, etc). Mine aren't big breakfast fans and DS1 is lactose intolerant and hence they still have quite a lot! I did ask recently if it was a problem but apparently not if they are still asking for it; by 1 year(ish) they shouldn't need milk as such because they should be getting all their vitamins in their food, but equally it will do them no harm to have some.

Milli, do the homeopathic tablets from Boots do any good or would I have to go to a proper homeopath? I'd like to try the two you mention but the chances of OH paying for a homeopath appointment are pretty much nil, whereas the Boots purchases I could sneak past with general shopping!!

Aarrgghhh! DS1 awake 1.30 - 4am today (no reason, just messing around and refusing to sleep) then DS2 awake from 6 luckily OH gets up for work around then so took him downstairs for a bit, but then knackered mummy still had to take over from 6.30!! DS1 is still asleep, but not for much longer, the little pain.....

Seriously, I'm going to give our HV a call today to see if there might be anything wrong with him - he needs so much milk during the night that he's been weeing through his nappy, his pyjama bottoms are wet. I don't think there is, but better to check I guess.

How is everyone else, would you like to join me in propping eyes open with matchsticks?!

I'm with you ruby. After a spell of really good nights, last night DS started screaming inconsolably at about 9pm and wouldn't stop unless on the boob. But was wide awake so every time I put him in his cot he'd start up again. He ended up in my bed from 11.30 but it gets so light in the mornings I tried to take him back to his room at 5 - cue up again at 5.30. Everyone's knackered.

I swear he knows he's on a settling in day today....