Night time 'bad habits' ... the independent baby sleep - support thread for anyone trying to break baby sleep habits

[Millipede170]

This thread is for anyone who routinely 'helps' their LO to get back to sleep when they wake in the night, would like them to start being more independent, but doesn't relish the thought of CC or CIO. Or maybe you've been there and are out the other side and can share your journey/pearls of wisdom (you could be my new hero). What methods have you tried or come up with? Please share ...

Ugh sorry to hear about all the hourly wakings. You just get no rest whatsoever, do you? I hope you can all have a bit of time to yourselves over the bank hol wknd.

At this end DS is poorly again (the return of the luminous snot and the cough) and so we had a pretty rubbish night, unsettled evening, in my bed from 3.30 and then up at 5.30 as usual. The advice seems to be to not feed him when he wakes early, but to let him cry until a 'suitable' hour to get up for the day but I just can't get my head around us starting the day with an hour of sobbing? Alex when you did wake-to-sleep, how did you semi wake him? Did you stroke his head or something until he stirred? The idea of it is slightly scary but since he is literally now like clockwork it might work....

He's also now being a bit funny about naps at home. He was at the childminder for all 5 days last week and I have a feeling that he's feeling clingy and doesn't want to be apart from us.

But it's his first birthday tomorrow, so I get to make him a cake!

Hello peeps
And big hugs to the mums of hourly wakers, it's just so tough.
In the Scottish household we are just back from a week in Scotland where we had 5 nights in a hotel, 2 with the inlaws, a different bedtime every night and a 7 hour car journey yesterday- so last night was interesting! Poor dh fell asleep on the floor next to the cot after repeatedly lying ds down after him climbing up the bars- apparently he went to sleep easily enough afterwards- both of them!! But knackering-

O no Milli, not another cold. And I'm sorry about the early waking- an hour of crying to start the day does not sound fun but I don't have any other ideas- I don't think we get the early wakings cos he doesn't sleep for long in one go.
Happy birthday baby Milli! It's nearly ds first birthday too. Are you having a party? We were just going to have family but then he got invited to other parties so felt guilty and invited them too!
Will read back more later,not had much internet on holiday x

Hi Scottish, sounds like your DS is a proper little gymnast!!

I have a few family coming round for MiniMilli's birthday shortly. He's having a sleep now thankfully, the morning nap was aborted because of the bloody cough. I hope this one doesn't last 6 weeks like the last!!

Happy bank hol everybody x

Happy birthday to miniMili! Hope you had a lovely day. I can confirm the wake to sleep method feels slightly like diffusing a bomb! Yes you stroke there head or feet, they just need to stir, ie roll over, change position, arch their back rather than eyes open looking at you. The book I read suggested long rhythmic shhhing too to put them back off. As I say worked wonders with our first ds, and if you've tried everything else worth a go!

Well I did have positive news, 6 days into no dairy and the snot has gone from the never ending cold!! Also we had 3 nights where sleep was much improved. Around 4 wakes, one night only 2!!! And dead easy to settle off with no crying.

Thought we'd cracked it. Then last night was hell, every 30 or less with long periods of tears and unsettled. However at bedtime tonight I saw the sharp spike of a tiny white tooth and there is another one directly above it about to cut so maybe dairy has made a difference only for teething to swoop in and ruin it! Who knows!

Scottish its so annoying when travel mucks with sleep further. We have a 5 day trip with 6 hour journeys coming up and I feel like all my hard work will be out of the window! Honestly feel like cancellling. Any improvement since your return?

Tea, the pain of the older sibling wake up is awful! I feel for you. Definitely finding the sleep tougher with 2, there is no catch up time either as child 1 is still raring to go come 6 even if loony baby sleeps off there nighttime antics until 8!

'This too shall pass' is my mantra at the moment, and they did look super sweet cuddling in the bluebells yesterday, ha! Good luck all xxx

Can I join the thread? 4 month DD who is currently fed to sleep - mainly because I'm beyond exhausted and it's the only thing that works. Tried 6 different brands of dummies. Can't enlist DH to settle at bedtime as he's not always back from work and think it would be confusing if we chop and change. On the one hand I really hate the whole 'bad habits' mentality as it's just nature & it's our modern lives that don't fit with the babies really, of course they need the comfort of mum, plus we're all sleep deprived & doing our best and using terms like 'bad habits' I think blames us poor mums unfairly. At the same time I'd like to find something that might work with minimal crying. DD1 was worse and I coslept, but DD2 is (marginally) easier and think maybe if i make a few changes soon it might help. She sometimes wakes up from being sick so looking forward to solids as that is supposed to help (have raised head of cot and on infant gaviscon but not solved problem).

Also just want to share how awful no sleep (or in 1 hourly chunks) is...... we have no family nearby - I dream of 4 hours uninterrupted sleep....

Alex are you going to keep going with the no dairy? Sounds like it could really help (and actually we might go that way too, as DS is unmanageably snotty and I really think it does make a difference). I think put last night down to teething and do a bit of pre-emptive nurofen tonight! I am always relieved when I see a tooth, because it's always preceded by a coupe of unsettled nights but it's all over as soon as the tooth pops! I may well try the wake-to-sleep, will keep you posted. It is clockwork except his wake time seems to come forward by a couple of minutes each day, so 5.25 this morning...

cupoftea welcome, I think most of us will relate to what you're going through, and who knows, someone might suggest something useful!

When it comes to 'bad habits' (I don't know if you've read from the start of the thread) my thoughts on it are very similar to yours. It's easy to accuse mums of creating their babies' habits sleep-wise, but it seems to me that babies are as individual in their needs and preferences as adults are, there is no one-size-fits-all. If feeding to sleep gets you through this weary stage of parenthood, bloody do it! But it's probably worth trying different strategies periodically, in case you are stuck in a rut (babies love rituals, after all) and are ready to move on. Like you I have no family support and a DH on a variable schedule, so I hear you. It's really tough.

Fab news on the tooth alex, I hope that you get a better night tonight now it's cutting through. Also in agreement that it's harder with two DC. I'm finding it hard at the min as DS is dropping his nap and DD naps for about 20 mins stints only and then she tends to only have an hour total napping each day.

Happy belated birthday to minimilli. Also feeling your pain with the early wake ups milli, 5.30 seems to be the wake up time of choice in our house too. I had to reacquaint DS to the groclock yesterday morning.

Welcome cupoftea - a lot of us found the sleep horrors began with the dreaded 4 month sleep regression. I can't offer much advice but can certainly offer sympathy.

Had appointment with HV today to get DD weighed (she's a chunky monkey) but spoke to her about the sleep problems. She definitely thinks DDs constant waking are out of habit now and while I'm constantly going in to put her dummy back in / bringing her into my bed, she'll let me. I've started to feed her 11.30/12.30 & that's it until 6ish. The HV said I should keep it up for the min as DD is faffing with milk in the day & not drinking much but that I should be dropping it soon & replace with water if necessary. By 7 months a little one should be able to go through the night without a feed. She has advised us to try controlled crying and ask grandparents to have DS for a couple of nights to get the worst couple of nights sorted. We both agreed that i need to get this sorted before I go back to work. I cannot continue getting up multiple times per hour.

millipede, sleepy thanks for the welcome! I am hoping the reflux / sick will improve when I introduce solids and might improve sleep too... DD refused to sleep more than 20 mins today - had to be out and about a lot - doctors, school drop off and pick up for older DD, voting. So frustrating. Missing the sleep anywhere and most of the day newborn phase! Yes, the lack of family support is a killer. Was easier with DD1 due to surestart centres and didn't have a school age child to fit around. All the children's centres near me closed recently due to council cuts - guess it's the age of austerity but just makes me feel even more isolated so Mumsnet is great!

MrsE I hear what your HV says about cutting night milk feeds if DD isn't feeding well in the day (although it sounds like she's getting plenty of grub onboard!) but isn't it a bit sweeping to say it's 'just' habit? I'm programmed to be sceptical when it comes to sleep training I think, but I do believe that some babies have a genuine need for comfort and physical contact longer into infancy than others. I know mine does, and there's not much point in fighting it because actually the distress on both sides if I withhold nursing/cuddles is worse than the fatigue!

I don't knock you for a minute though for wanting to set the pace. I hope it's the nudge she needs a quick win for you! x

cupoftea that's a great shame about the surestart budget cut. Have you tried mummy social? I've never been to an event (found it too late into my mat leave) but I think it looks quite fun?

Hi everyone,

I see that this thread has been inactive for a while but I'm posting in the hope of reviving it and maybe getting some advice or just survival tips.

I like the fact that you've put "bad habits" in quotation marks because I've read various sleep books (haven't we all) and I don't like it when the author refer to feeding or rocking to sleep as "bad habits" or "negative sleep associations" - it just makes me feel worse, and defensive! Feeding and rocking to sleep are actually quite nice things to do until they become unsustainable, it would be interesting to debate the ideal time to transition from the "parent-led" methods to the independent ones.

ANYWAY. The reason I'm here is that I'm chronically sleep deprived and desperate. I'm too tired to think straight which is why I'm hoping to get some advice. All the books I've read are swirling around in my brain and I just need to decide on a strategy and make a plan - but it's easier said than done!

This is my situation:

• DS is 6 months old (huge though, ~98th percentile for weight)
• I'm breastfeeding and had also been expressing but gave up as DS has been refusing the bottle for a while
• He sleeps in a Snuzpod on my side of the bed.
• He was a pretty good night sleeper (usually 1-2 wakings a night) until a few weeks ago when he started waking 3-4 times a night. That has gone up to around 6 night wakings since we removed his Sleepyhead about a week ago. We had to remove it because he'd outgrown it (I'd been putting it off for ages but couldn't really delay any longer). Don't want to buy the bigger Sleepyhead as it won't fit in the Snuzpod (and I don't want to move him out just yet), is expensive and will just delay the problem.
• He has always been a terrible napper but I've been working on it over the last few weeks and it has been improving. He has short naps (30-45mins) unless I extend them by rocking him or if we're in the car.
• He used to feed to sleep but we naturally moved away from that for naps, rocking to sleep instead. Then started rocking instead of feeding to sleep at bedtime. I still feed him to sleep when he wakes during the night, though. He has very occasionally fallen asleep next to me in bed (after unlatching) but never on his own in the Snuzpod.

So. Rocking to sleep is unsustainable because he's so darn heavy. Feeding to sleep at night is the easier option, but given how much he's waking atm, I'm really worried that he's getting into bad habits of expecting milk and/or comfort sucking at every single waking.

• We thought he might have an ear infection (GP couldn't confirm because too much wax in his ear to see) but we've given ibuprofen the last couple of nights and it hasn't made a difference. Don't want to medicate every single night!
• Have made a couple of tentative attempts at offering solids but it's going to be slow progress if they were anything to go by!

I want to do some gentle sleep training to encourage independent sleep. The problem is that we're going on holiday next week so I want to wait until we get home. But I am on my knees with exhaustion and I don't feel I can cope any longer (even though it's only 8 days until we'll be back from the holiday). I am feeling very depressed, hating everyone and everything, resenting DS and DH. I was wondering if anyone has any survival tips for the next 8 days or anything I can do to improve his sleep or at least pave the way for proper training when we get back?

Hi Name

I was you at 5 months (though DD nearly always fed to sleep), she 'outgrew' the sleepyhead because she's a starfish, and wouldn't sleep in the snuzpod on its own.

We did get the bigger sleepyhead, and attached the full size cot with the side off to the bed. She stopped needing the sleepyhead a couple of months later (waste of money).

She's almost 1 now. I have no advice as such

It seems feeding to sleep/to resettle is still her default state, and night wakings have not decreased, which I don't actually mind as she goes back to sleep fairly quickly.

What I do mind is that she wants to sleep touching me! It's giving me a bad back. Once she's asleep I slide her over, but she either wakes as I do it and wants to relatch or rolls over until she's touching me again.

I know some people will say I should put her in her own room, but she wakes as you put her in the cot and then stands up and cries.

So, I'm hoping people might have suggestions, or am I doomed to have a bad back until I can get her a toddler bed where I can feed/cuddle her to sleep and then leave her (this is my current plan, she can already get out of bed safely so I think she'll be ready at 18 months or so).

A bit late to the party but at the end of my tether! My 13-month dd is still breastfeeding to sleep, wakes around 7 times a night and gets hysterical if she can't feed/nurse. I wouldn't mind but she empties me out and instead of thinking "oh there's no milk, there's no point", she just tries harder! The pain is toe curling! 2am she went down last night and she still woke while it was dark for a feed and then again at 6.30am! Am struggling with the lack of sleep as back at work now. She is day weaned as she's at nursery but she's refusing to give up the night feeds. I'm not strong enough to do controlled crying or cry it out. She cried it out for 2 hours on Saturday night and still had not gone to sleep and I ended up feeding her! Any advice or words of encouragement?

@cosypinkblanket have you tried the pantley pull off or the Jay Gordon method?

If so the other thing is do you have a partner you can get to settle her at night? She'll receive comfort every time she wakes but no milk. It would take a few days I'm told. Your partner (and you!) will need balls for this though, we struggle to hear our baby crying hysterically 😭

Hi crazycatlady! I haven't tried anything yet apart from her dad putting her to bed. She fights sleep and screams and cries for hours and she'll eventually drop off on him and when he tries to put her down, she bloody wakes up and the whole shit show starts again!!! I think I may have to tough it out. He has more resolve than I do and I get really upset listening to her crying.

Hi,
Can I join but I am having major day time nap sleep drama.
You hear all the stories of babies who just fall asleep on their playmats etc, I have to rock DS in his pram or go for walks OR shush and pat him while he's on his side holding his teddy.
I've tried him 3 days in his cot and he's screaming holy hell today.
He doesn't have a dummy, tried it so many times he just blows raspberries with it and spits it out.
I can't do CC or CIO, when he cries, he gets too the point where I can't stop him and I get frustrated and upset with myself.
Any tips would be amazing please x

Hi @SiTay, how old is your baby? I've never heard about babies falling asleep on they okaymat 😂 Who are these mythical creatures?

Playmat*

@crazycatlady5 it looks like we're chatting on two threads.
Oh yeah, I've heard all sorts of wonderful stories "I put my baby in the car seat, leave him and he'd fall asleep"
DS is 6 months old.

Hi all, wasn't sure whether to join in here or start my own thread. I have a 13mo who has never slept on her own for naps or overnight. 90% of the time she is BF to sleep and then held (or cosleeping). I live on my own with her and as she's my only baby I haven't got a clue how to get her to go to sleep. She also wakes hourly through the night, BF for 5 mins then goes back to sleep again in my bed.

No idea where to start with getting her to sleep

Hi all ! Can I join? I have a 8 month old who BF to sleep and wakes 4-5 times a night, we co sleep, in my bed for the second part of the night (the first bit is in his cot at the side of my bed, but I just get so tired around 1am).
He then wakes bright as a button at 5am up for the day.
He has a nap every 2.5 - 3 hours (after he woke last) and they can be anything from 40 mins - 3 hours. So I don't think he is over tired. And I know he can sleep through sleep cycles as he does 3 hour stints sometimes.
I don't know what to do, do I just keep doing what I am doing and hope it sorts out in time, or do I change something? The thing is I am back at work now so I can't have a bad night with up and down on a nursery you see, and co sleeping is giving us both the much needed sleep. (And DH as he has a lovely 9 hours on the sofa 😞 he is on shared maternity so he needs his sleep 😂) x

@Moodyone if you're happy with it, keep going! You won't be cosleeping forever! You never know it could be only a month or so until he starts sleeping huge chunks - it's what I keep telling myself anyway haha

@crazycatlady5 aww thanks! I do worry about this rod everyone keeps mentioning... I suppose you don't find many 16 year olds still co sleeping 😂

Hi, can I join too?
My nearly 5 month old feeds 3-4 hourly during the day. We've started early weaning. She has half a crushed rusk in the morning and a small amount of porridge with her milk at 7pm. We put her down awake between 7:30-8pm. It takes her a little while but she eventually settles with her dummy. She normally wakes between 10:30-11pm for a feed (bottle fed). If she doesn't wake I do a dream feed. From last week she has cut out the 3am feed but still stirs often throughout the night. Sometimes I can settle her by putting her dummy back in. Most often though I pick her up for a cuddle to resettle. If she doesn't settle I offer a feed, but I'm sure she isn't waking because she's hungry. I try laying her down once settled but she often stirs quickly, thrashing from side to side and slamming her legs down against the mattress. Unfortunately, as a quick and easy option I have got into the bad habit of bringing her into bed (normally around 4-5am). I sleep with her in my arms. I prop myself up with pillows so there is no way I can roll onto her. She then sleeps well til morning. I think she thinks this is where she sleeps now. I'm keen to stop this as I'm going back to work soon, and I'm also getting a bad back.
She doesn't sleep well in the day either- only catnaps (unless in my arms), and needs rocking to do so.
Any suggestions?