Every night feels likes a lifetime

[ThursdayLastWeek]

DS is nearly 7mo and his lack of sleep is getting me down.

I feel like I have troubleshot everything, but nothing works.

Dummy worked for a while - no longer.
In cot/co sleeps - still wakes frequently.
BF or FF - wakes frequently.
In the last week I started to put him down on his front which worked for two nights (well he still woke twice for feeds, but that's good for him) but now that's stopped working too.

I'm really at the end of my tether. He's currently rolling around my bed, chewing the dummy and squealing. And I keep thinking 'I hate him' - and then of course I hate myself

I know people will say it will get better he won't be like this forever, but every single night feels like a lifetime right now. And I can't cope.

Enforced quiet time - I will try that! Good idea...

I'm hoping that once he learns to walk I can just release him into our back yard and let him run free (ish..) to wear him out. He is a ball of energy and has been since birth. He came out with his head up, looking critical and hasn't stopped since. Apparently I was the same.
....plus it's heading into winter which is dark and cold - plenty of snow related playtime should tire him.
I have (had.. now I sleep in seconds) very severe insomnia and sleep issues as does my mum so I'm feeling rather guilty that I've passed it on to poor Ds.

If it's any comfort to anyone the head honcho paediatric lady we saw at the hospital said that sleep is largely developmental., that yes, you can work on what you have and train to a degree but some perfectly healthy and normal kids just do not sleep until 2-3 years of age.

Hi, can I join too? My DS is 5.5 months. I have to say, our situation doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as some.of yours, and I can't even imagine how you are coping....especially those of you who have more than one child to deal with too!

DS has always been a prettt good sleeper (10-6/7 with one wake up) fairly early on, and we had a week of 6-6, with one wake.up, while visiting my parents in the UK. GREAT thought I...We'll get home and with the time difference, we'll have 7-7. Amazing. Nope. Now its down 6.30/7pm, awake 3/4 times and wide awake at 5 or 5.30. Cooing, gurgling, kicking, chatting. What do you do with an early riser like this?? Get up and start the day? Pretend you're asleep and ignore until he gets frustrated?

Much sympathy to you all

Oh Hubble, I don't know how you cope. I'm not surprised at how you are feeling. I would be going mad with that little sleep.
Small world Thursday, I'm also in Cornwall.
First wake up at 9. Was in bed at 8 and deliciously cosy but not sleeping as I could hear the boy stirring. He went back to sleep on my shoulder v quickly but has now wriggled his way round to my lap, so now he will take a bit longer before I can put him down as he's twitching and wriggling.

Pocket I would definitely say that unless he's crying just leave him. It's hard, because you might lie there listening to him, but if you straight away get up and lift him from his cot he will very quickly learn to call for you. If he's just jibbering away, he's happy enough and he may go back to sleep. We also try, not always successfully, to avoid feeding or giving milk to ds until a 'reasonable' time, so if he wakes at 5.30 say, we won't give him milk unless he cries or demands it until the more acceptable 6 or 6.30. That's just because we're mean parents their body clock is set by mealtimes so if it gradually creeps earlier each day they will wake earlier the next day IYSWIM - this is just in my experience but seems true for us

Ds seems to have his internal alarm set for 4am. We try to keep things quiet and just bring him into bed until 5 -5:30 because 4is just inhuman. He's also v hungry on waking (I think that's what's waking him) so delaying milk isn't an option although we try to delay breakfast

If he's not upset, I'd just leave him in the cot tbh. We have a couple of safe toys in there for him to play with but he screams on waking so we bring him in with us.

I wish I could leave mine in the cot. He's a shouter too though. Cries as soon as he's awake. He just woke himself up doing a massive fart and started grizzling. What is so traumatic about a fart, even a big one, that he needs to cry? Lol.
I just had another 20 mins of being cosy but not sleeping. I think my brain is on extra high alert tonight, as baby has been so twitchy. Took me hr and 15 to get him back in his cot m, as just when I thought I might be able to move him, he nearly woke up. I hope it's quicker this time.

Gah. They're such funny little things, aren't they! How hard is it to lie down on a comfu surface and just close your eyes....??

So we had some sleepy screaming at 8pm and 10pm, a pick up stopped that one...is he too young for nightmares? Then a dummy replacement at midnight (I'm goinf to get one of those things mentioned upthread. How the hell do they get them through the bars of the cot every single time...?) Feed at 1, feed at 4. I took him in the spare room at 5, we both got a little sleep at some pointt, no idea how much though until the evil water pressure pump kicked in and woke us both up.
Thanks hubble and new do you think I could leave off the 4am feed? That seems a pretty regular new thing now :(

Does anyone else find that you have these plans/intentions and in the moment, you're so tired you just shove a boob in or do whatever will [you think might] work, then immediately think damn...wasn't going to do that...?

I do leave him as long as possible, although I have a bit of a difficult situation in that we are in the middle of renovating our new house, which was way more work than we though, DH is doing EVERYTHING, with a little help from friends after his very long physical day job...so he's out at 7am, back at 10pm, 7 days a week. I feel like I should let him sleep as much as he can as he is probably even more exhausted than me....this is only.until we can move in and stop paying rent and mortgage though...then he will get his fair share of night wakings to deal with! Anyway, I feel like it's easier.for me to remove DS to spare room. But hadn't factored in evil water pump....will need to rethink

Hope everyone else's night weren't too bad.

New the wakings have definitely got earlier. So the feeding is something to work on. Thank you!

Sorry to hear about others' nights and Hubble I really hope stuff improves. Thanks also for the birthday wishes. Was tucked up in bed by 10 . How very rock and roll.
Very good night here. Best in about 5 weeks - only one get up!!!
Bed 7:40
Up 2:30
Up for day 5:40
Fingers crossed we're turning the corner. Hope everyone else had a good night.

Thanks for the birthday wishes. Went to bed at 10 - very rock and roll...
Hubble I really hope things improve, sounds horrendous. Like my eldest actually. He got better at 3 and now aged 7 is an early riser still but reads in his room until a pre agreed time.
Had a very good night, best in about 5 weeks.
Bed 7:40
Up 2:30
Wake up for day 5:40
Only 1 get up!!!! Hopefully turning the corner...can't get hopes up though.
Hope everyone else has had a good night.

Hubble not sure about nightmares, but think about how he is in the day - can he tell if you leave the room? Does he know if you've taken a toy from him and cry? Is he startled by a dog barking? in which case, he could easily replay these memories in the night. My dm swore by snuffle babe under the nostrils for my little brothers 'nightmares' from a very early age.

I think he does have nightmares- he often wakes in a real state and I had them from as early as I can remember

^^don't know if it was Hubble who mentioned nightmares, just scrolled through to check and can't find it at all!

Re: 4am feed. Are you bf? It's harder I think if you are as you don't know what they've had. With my formula fed babies, if I know they've had the requirements during the day then I'm not so quick to feed at night, but it doesn't always work. On these nights when they feed and feed all night, does it affect their feeds the next day, or mealtimes?

Wasn't me but it's one of the things we've considered.
He's streaming with cold just now so not surprising he's waking I guess ...

Oh god, the dreaded snot. I find I always get it too, whatever cough and cold they have because I'm so run down! Echinacea helps, last time I got the feeling I was getting a sore throat I took double dose echinacea for three days and it went.
We also bought a delightful snot sucking device which looks bizarre but it's a godsend especially in the night when they are so snotty.
We took dramatic steps last year to avoid the coughs and colds and were quite strict about hand washing before holding the baby and not socialising with ill people. Yes, we came across as arseholes, but it's not them who are having to sit up all night with poorly children. My ds1 was a really chesty baby, and ds2 was hospitalised with bronchiolitis so I made no excuses for my arseholeness.

The snot suckers are incredible! Alas he has a bit of a thing about his nose and mouth and goes nuts if you try to touch them (really crazy.. even with two of us we can't do it for fear of hurting him, he's so strong it takes force to restrain him...)

We are good with hand washing (both ex lab scientists) but there's so much going around. Will try the echinacea!

I also find cotton wool better than tissues, and it seems more absorbent so you can dab rather than wipe. We also have a fearless bogey protector, he won't let anyone near them even if he's asleep.
I think you can also get echinacea drops for babies but I'm not sure, I'll do a bit of research!

www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/childhood-illnesses/echinacea

I don't know how to do a clicky link, but this site says 250mg a day from 6 months. Holland and Barratt for me tomorrow.....

Oh yes, happy Birthday, User! Birthday sleep for you...I imagine it was one of the best birthday presents ever!

Oh poor things with cold. It's awful isn't it. We have a snot sucker too!

It was me who mentioned nightmares. He's just this week started to notice if I walk out the room, I think. And only yesterday he was fascinated by my watch but started sucking it, so I took it away and he screamed. A different toy wasn't enough...he stopped as soon as I gave the watch back to him!!! I spy a tantrummy child on the horizon!
And yes, we are EBF, so not sure how much he's had...also he gets incredibly distracted during the day, he's always fed really quickly, but now i feel like he really doesn't get much during the day so am reluctant to take away at night if he's making up what he needs. But his feeding is a whole other issue of mine!

New, I think I kind of feel the opposite...I'd rather expose DS to germs and hopefully build up their immune system. But I completely understand why you'd push on with your 'arseholiness' with a chesty baby and a case of bronchiolitis behind you!

Pocket yes it's more like when your coughs and colds roll into each other without even a break in between, something has to give. I used to have such a strong immune system (I worked in a prison so basically it was microbe soup in there over the winter - boak) but these babies and sleepless nights have destroyed me! I seem to get the viruses worse than they do. Also bf does protect them from things, which mine didn't get due to being ff.
Re: nightmares, if he's capable of those emotions during the day, then it stands to reason that he will in some way format those memories overnight. I'm no psychologist but it would make sense to me that babies have some kind of dream and they aren't all pleasant. Especially at times when there's already cognitive changes going on, during the 'leaps' perhaps he is having bad dreams as you suspect?

Wow. Interesting discussion here re dreams etc. I hadn't really thought about that being the cause of him waking up screaming blue murder sometimes and just slowly working up to a yell at others.
Thanks TheNew for the echinacea info. Might try it next time he has a cold. He's a bit snuffly at the mo but I've been putting it down to teething as I don't seem to have a cold. If one of us in the house gets it, we all do. Had a stonker of one a month ago which nearly killed OH.
Before that, we pretty much avoided them as we don't see many people.

So anyone know how I can get my son to nap in his cot and not just on me? I'm going to have to tackle daytime first before night time, I think. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and sort this as I will be back at work in a few months and it will be easier for my OH if he can put him down for naps and have a break.

I have with both of my boys just bitten the bullet and tried. Sometimes it works! Make sure he's tired and then put him down, we always say bye bye to the mirror babies in the mirrors at the bottom and top of the stairs (a bit of routine?) and then put him down. I usually stay upstairs, clean the bathroom, tidy my daughters pigsty bedroom or put washing away. Go in as you would with controlled crying, shush pat technique or whatever. I find it a lot less horrific in the day, somehow they just don't seem as noisy. Remember as well, you don't have to see it through every time. This was the best advice given to me by HV. Try it, and if it's awful, stop and try again another day. Good luck!

Thanks AverageBear. If I were on my own things would be very different but my OH is a worrier and has always picked our little boy up the minute he started crying. There is no way I could do controlled crying at night, he would get upset and take over but I might manage something similar in the day, if he's out at work. I'm not looking forward to it.

The problem I'm having with the 'leave in the cot and just sit/go back and soothe' thing is that he gets so wound up that he starts to react to the cot. He gets frightened, then won't go in the cot/freaks out if we go near it. Last time he bashed his face into the bars repeatedly until he bled. I can't leave him like that (or do people leave them? I don't know... What level of crying is ok? Pissed off crying? Attention crying? That seems ok. But what about when they've been crying hysterically for a long time with no let up? The cc programs never seem to address that. They all have this 'they cry, settle when you go in, then after a few hours they give up and drop off..'

I don't have any philosophical beef with cc, but it's only ever been counterproductive for us. We've tried twice and each time it's taken weeks to undo the fear/negative associations with the cot.