PUPD success stories/advice please!

[Huishnish]

My ds2 who is 5 months has suddenly started sleeping horribly, I mean waking every 1.5 hours, won't be put down in his cot, and usually is awake from 1:30am to 4:30. I'm trying to cope with him and his brother (just turned 2) on 3-4 hours of broken sleep a night. So... Thought I would try pupd. He's ebf and has always fed to sleep which was working brilliantly until last week. Would love to hear any stories from people who've tried it and any golden nuggets of advice! He is a great character and v strong willed so I'm not expecting it to be easy... TIA

macca that's great about the long nap! Long may it continue. We had a good morning one too and then a rubbish afternoon one, had to resettle him 3 times so just gave up in the end and sat with him in front of the tv So knackered today I just couldn't be doing with it all.

Argh dreading another bad night tbh. I have yet another blockage in milk duct which is agony. Sometimes feel so discouraged with breastfeeding. I absolutely love it but it makes it so hard to ever have a break. Wish DH could help with night wakings just once in a while. And mil (who is looking after the boys when I work in November, just for a few days) is giving me such a hard time about ds2 not taking a bottle. Plus I met yet another formula fed baby mum whose two had slept through from 8 weeks and 12 weeks Sorry, rant over! I know from experience that I'll look back and be SO glad that I stuck with it. Just hard going at the moment.

to all xx

Ah style you huff away. I would huff too if I had three others to contend with!! :o) We're back to 30 min naps which is bearable - but I would like them to be longer.
Last night again was good for me - DH woke DS when we went to bed so I was up with him at 10pm. He was down at 7pm, awake at 9pm (just for a few minutes) and I fed at 10pm, and 2pm, he was awake for an hour and a half and then down until 6:30am. So not too bad - if we can get rid of this hour and a half I'll be happier!

huish I know FF babies sleep better but you're doing a grand old thing, and also that will help with the duct. That sounds horrid, you poor thing. It is wonderful isn't it but we had it very difficult to feed to start with and I'm glad I persevered - mainly because I'm a stubborn old cow. HA!

Ignore MIL - your baby, your rules. He'll take a bottle when you want or need him to, and not a bit earlier.

Good luck tonight all!

macca thanks for the moral support re the feeding. V much appreciated. I do love it, just have to remember that through the dark moments! And I'd be gutted if he loved the bottle so much that he didn't want the boob any more.

So how's it going for everyone? Last night I decided I would work on the first feed of the night. Previous night he'd woken at 11 and had a half hearted feed from one side but then got really cross when I didn't give him the other side. He did fall asleep though and I just had the feeling that he wasn't actually hungry. So last night when he woke at 10 I tried to comfort him in his cot. He was so cross it was awful. When I tried pupd he was just desperately trying to get onto the boob so ended up getting him back to sleep by stroking his head and singing to him. But then he didn't waken again until after 3. So think on balance it was the right thing to do. Hoping he'll just give up waking before midnight for a feed. Tonight we are at mil's though so not sure I can have crying I really don't mind feeding him once during the night but before midnight seems like just for comfort. I'm just too tired to be a good mummy at the moment, keep snapping at both the dcs and DH

What news from you guys? Hopegood nights were had by all!

Argh I typed a long reply last night while feeding and it didn't post and I was too tired to do it again...

huish how is your blocked duct? I'm so sorry. They are absolutely awful. Have you tried all the usual, alternate hot and cold packs? Cabbage leaves in your bra, massage? I second macca breastfeeding, especially in the face of adversity, is amazing, keep it up. It's so hard but worth it. And all the formula feed sleeping through ness should probably be taken with a pinch of salt too! FF babies teeth and have growth spurts and developmental milestones too!

Glad you're feeling happier macca though aiming to sort out the long awake spell. What does DS do when he's awake? Is he fussing or just awake? Will he just lie there or does he want to be cuddled?

I tried not doing the dream feed the last two nights and DD woke around 2 the first night because DD3 woke up and came in crying but I reckon she would have gone longer. Then last night she woke at 11:30 and again at 1am. The cold is still a huge factor. I brought her into our bed and she didn't wake again until 5:30.

As a side note, any advice on night potty training. It's puzzling me. DD has been day trained for about 9 months, did it herself. Dry naps happened about 3/4 months later. Nights were way off and then the last two months (I remember by how many packets of nappies I've bought!) every morning bar maybe two they've been dry. So I figured now was the time to take them away as she's 95% dry, which I can live with. The end of the packet arrived so I asked if she was ok to go without and she was happy to. The last three nights she's soaked herself up to 3x a night! I don't get it! Why is that happening? Her nappies are bone dry! I thought perhaps it's just the security of knowing they're there and now maybe she's nervous, I don't know.

Well we are at mil's and I'm feeding ds2

Woke up at 10:45, managed to settle him after 10 mins peaceful stroking then went to the loo, came back and he woke up (we're in the same room here). Half an hour of crying later DH comes in and loudly says 'why don't you just feed him' so he's currently snoozing on the boob. Have just made him cry for 45 mins for nothing. I'm so fed up with DH. We have talked about all this and it goes in one ear and out the other. He hasn't done one single thing to help during the night since ds2 was a few weeks old. Asked him to read the baby whisperer chapter on pupd so he could help but he didn't bother. So fed up with him right now. So hard doing this with absolutely no support

style so glad it sounds like things going better. And thanks to you too for support about feeding. Yes blocked duct sorted , got it quick enough this time that it was fairly easy to clear.

Really sorry have absolutely no experience of potty training so can't help on that. Ds1 has only just turned 2 so haven't started yet. Am dreading it! Can't believe you are up dealing with that too.

Ok have put him down and he's awake again. Better go do something

Sorry huish, hope it's better now you're home.

I've had a few bad nights, four wakings plus the bed time feed. I'm fed up. Last night I tried halving the feed length from 10 mins a side to 5 mins a side. I think it worked in that DD was awake going back down the first time but not the others. But it was still the same number of feeds. I'm thinking maybe a few days of that, then cut down to 4mins a side etc and hopefully she will stop bothering to wake. I really can't take much longer. I'm getting so irritable and snappy with the others during the day and can't sleep til late myself for some reason, even though I can't keep my eyes open!

Hi style I'm really sorry things are tough- if it's any consolation I'm in the same boat. Fed up and completely knackered. Had a horribly dark day on Tuesday, snapped at the kids, slammed doors, cried a lot and lost it with DH. Just don't know what to do. Might try your idea of cutting down on the time but he is almost impossible to prize off once he's latched on! DH was away on Wednesday night and I slept 11:15-5:45. Really though I'd cracked it and then had another awful one last night. Now wondering if I actually just slept through his wakings Naps are back to being really crap again too. Have you ever thought about controlled crying? Can't bear the thought of it really but I'm back to work next week and am going around like a zombie... have you had this with any of your other dcs?

Oh no, I'm so sorry it is so hard on not enough sleep isn't it.

All the DC have had to be 'trained' to sleep I guess, a bit. But DD3 was the worst, she was still waking up every two hours a night at 10 months while on solids and day time weaned. I had to go cold turkey on her and it was awful for a week or so. But by then I knew she was fine without food overnight, which you can't be sure of at 5/6m!

DD3 was refusing day time naps totally and was terrible at night and I didn't know what to work on first. In the end I did the naps and the nights sorted themselves extremely quickly after that, if it's any consolation? However for me I think DD4's naps are fine for her age so I don't know why nights are so rotten.

The thing is that at this age they are teething, trying to crawl, sit up, put things in their mouths, start eating, there must be so much going on in there. Probably shouldn't be surprised that they don't fancy sleep!

I'm looking for this book by Millpond, it's called Teach Your Child to Sleep:
Solving Sleep Problems from Newborn Through Childhood. It seems to have a gentle approach and I need something to try. Will report back 😂

How are you both feeling now? Sorry you've had a couple of tough nights. We've been away visiting family (first flight!!) and sleeping hasn't really been great but I think we overwhelmed him a bit (and it's hard to get naps in when you're visiting a lot) - one night I just couldn't get him in the cot at 4am so I sat up with him - uncomfortable chair, in the dark and cold, until DH woke up after I accidentally coughed really loudly around 7am! We're back now so hopefully things will improve again.
How's the duct huish? And style the wet nights? I have no experience but only think perhaps it's attention she wants? No idea though!

Hi both, style any luck with that book?? I agree re teething/development etc there is just so much going on with them. And I remember starting solids with ds1 was difficult too. I think I may end up doing as you did -and as I did with ds1 - and just going cold turkey on night feeds around 10 months. Hard but it worked really well for him. I just think with both my wee boob addicts as long as they know milk is an option in the night they're going to wake for it so it's hard just to cut out some feeds and keep others iyswim. Will be really interested to see if you find anything that works. I'm not sure about his naps either tbh. At the moment he has 30 mins-1 hour at 9 ish, then a cat nap in the buggy around 11:30 then a longer nap something like 1:30-2:30. Thinking I'll eventually be able to get rid of the catnap and hopefully have a decent after lunch sleep once naps have consolidated a bit. Would be interested to know what has worked for you nap-wise. Ds1 had a weird routine of 10:30-12:30 and 3-4 until he was about 14 months but I really need ds2 to have his sleep after lunch so I can get them both sleeping at the same time!

macca how are you going now you're home?

Hi both, sorry for the long gap, we had a couple of slightly better nights with only two wake ups instead of four Then it's all gone pear shaped again and tonight is particularly bad in that we have had no evening as DD has been awake every hour or so. Brought her downstairs to do a full reset and put her down drowsy but awake and 20mins later she's screaming again. Fed her and she's now dead to the world. I am so so so fed up of this. I'm really struggling to function the rest of the time! DH and I are going to have 'the chat' tomorrow about how to do at least a week of solid cutting down the night wakings. Naps have been rubbish the last week too which isn't helping. She keeps getting woken up by the others after 45mins of her morning nap and it totally mucks up the whole day, sigh.

Hope you guys have better news than me. Onwards and upwards all!

Oh man. When I said dead to the world, she's just woken up again...

Grrr Saturday night was awful. Then last night I put her down and she woke after ten mins and I thought here we go again. I left her to cry for a few minutes and she stopped and slept through til 3am and had a feed and then til 6 and I'm feeding now! The heating was on a lot last night as the temp has dropped and we need to re set the thermostat so again I'm wondering if the cold is really making that much of a difference. I'm so loathe to spend £30 odd quid on a Jojo sleeping bag with sleeves but maybe I should just grit my teeth and do it if it means I get until 3am...

oh style I think you jinxed her! DH does that to me all the time. I'm so sorry you're having a bad time still. I'm losing the plot too. I had one AMAZING day - a) a nap in the car! (unheard of), b) DS's first ever nap whilst I took him for a walk in the pushchair and c) he was awake in the cot and then I got him to sleep in the cot. I totally thought I'd cracked it. Since then it's been awful - just so unpredictable. He can be awake up to 6 times in the night (from 7pm to 7am) and napping during the day went from pretty good - 45 mins a go to max 20 mins each time, and now he's down for 40 mins and counting. I just don't know what I'm doing right and wrong! I did give him solids for the first time though and since then he's had a long sleep after that - so maybe that's helping. Last night he was in with me- I tried to put him in his cot a couple of times and he wasn't having it (at 1am) and I realised he'd been sick in it. So I had him with me, let him nibble on the boob and he slept until 7am!!!! He clearly wasn't feeding all that time so I'm seeing progress that he slept that long. Baby steps. I'll be honest and say I've been really cross and get angry with DH and been cross with DS to a certain extent, but I always feel so bad. He's just a baby, and it must be me doing something wrong not him. It's so hard though.

What are your nap routines like? What I try to do is give him a nap once he's been awake for 2-2.5hrs, guaging his tiredness. Generally he naps then around 8:30am, 12pm ish and then 3:30pm ish. I am starting to think he could do without the later one if I bring the first two forward.

style if it's the cold can you have the heating on a bit longer in her room? Or why buy a sleeping bag if you can put another cardi on? What I do with DS is keep him in the sleeping bag and then when we come to bed (ie the heating is off) then put a blanket over him. Seems to be ok.

huish are you back at work now? How is that going? I hope it's been ok for you and you are getting your nights ok!

Hi macca, it's just so frustrating isn't it, not knowing what thing to try next to improve things. Sorry you're still having nap issues despite some improvements. Hooray for one successful lot of naps though!

Naps currently are: she wakes up for the day around 7 and has a feed regardless of when the last feed was (even if it was at 6!) so I can aim for 2hrs later a nap and I know she's not hungry. Then she goes down again at 9am. Then this is when the problem starts, if she is undisturbed by the others, she can have up to 2hrs and wakes up happy as a clam. But that hasn't happened for weeks now, despite my best efforts. The kids always wake her up by banging around and she gets maybe 40mins. Then she can't get back to sleep again.

So I feed at 11 and try putting her down again but she won't have it. Then it's lunch time so she eats a bit and I feed her at 1pm and try her down again after that. Sometimes she will sleep then for 45 mins but always wakes after that one sleep cycle. Other times she won't sleep then either as she's been so messed up earlier in the day. Then she's struggling to stay awake the remainder of the day, has a feed around 3 and a quick top up at 4:30 before I start making dinner. I try to get her to have a half hour nap then but it usually doesn't happen. Then feeding after bath starts hopefully around 6:45 and into bed for no later than 7:30, I aim for a shorter feed than that as I'm trying to put her down awake but she's so blooming shattered that she's generally solid gone after ten mins of feeding and the night problems start.

Written down, I can see that the naps are so so bad and must be affecting her night time sleep. It's so frustrating. I'm literally begging the kids to be quiet in the mornings. I'm staying at home most mornings to give her the best chance of getting one good nap but I think the others are struggling with the lack of stimulation... In all, on a bad day, DD probably gets only just over an hour's sleep. The days when she wasn't getting woken in the morning she was getting closer to 3hrs over the two naps and that was when the nights were better. Answering my own questions here!

Last night DD slept through until 5:15! Quick feed and down again until 8am!

Oh woweeeeeeee! I'm so thrilled for you! Great news. How is tonight? Hopefully once she's in that pattern she'll stay.
I'm currently squashed in bed between DH and DS. At least they are both asleep. I know, I know. Must break this habit!

watching with interest as we want to start trying PUPD soon!

Argh I don't know, the following night her teeth were bothering her during the day and she was screaming most of the evening. I got her down eventually at 10pm and she slept til 3, then til 7. Last night she managed until 2 and then 5, but it was colder last night. So there's definitely been some improvement. But today everyone's been home and naps have been shot to pieces so tonight will probably be naff

How's naps?

Great news about your sleeping through style! At least you know she can do it. Sorry last night wasn't quite so good. I reckon once they've done it though a more regular pattern isn't too far away. Do you think a lot of it's down to naps then?

We've had a horrific week with sleeping. I started work on Monday and he's had hardly any milk while I've been away so has been making up for it at night. Fair enough really, and I've been feeding him as soon as he wakes up. So by the end of the week that was pretty much every hour. Absolutely exhausted today. Have decided to try to stick to a really clear routine for the next four days (not working) in the hope it might help him take more milk. On the positive side naps are way better, he's having and hour and a quarter at least in the morning and after lunch. So would love to hear your thoughts on my proposed routine! Here goes:
7 breastfeed
8 breakfast
9 nap (usually wakes about 10:30)
11 breastfeed
12 lunch
1:30 nap
3 breastfeed
5 tea
6 breastfeed
7 bed
The only thing about all this is it doesn't leave much time to get out and about and I really felt for ds1 today cooped up in the house (although the weather was hideous so it didn't matter too much). Really hoping this is going to make a difference.

macca are you finding co-sleeping is working well for you? Have to say there's been times this week I thought about it but don't trust myself in this exhausted state!

huish wow you're a star, how was going back to work? I WFH now for our business just half a day a week and the thought of having to leave DD is really distressing even 4th time around 😂, though I'd happily leave the others, they are doing my head in!

Your routine sounds excellent and is what I am striving for too. Let me know how the next four days go.

It all went crazy again for us last night. DD has started with a heavy cold and bad cough so was awake every hour or so last night. She was so congested she couldn't even feed back to sleep and was choking on snot and vomiting up mucus and milk. I think I got about an hours' sleep all night and my SPD was really painful thanks to DD3, who has been staying in her bed again coming in and out of our bed like a yoyo all night. We were out at a friends' today so I've just finished feeding and will see how tonight goes. I'm hoping better than last night but prob not brill.

Hi all, what news? style hope you are all better from colds? Sounds absolutely awful. How on earth are you managing with four? Amazing.

Yes going back to work last week was pretty traumatic with lots of tears from me and the wee one. But luckily I work funny hours so always get to either spend the morning with them or do bath/bed so it's not too bad. And I'm freelance so it's all sporadic. No idea how people go back full time. I'd be a total wreck.

I'm really really fed up with sleeping now. Naps are good, he generally settles pretty well on his own, and I sometimes even have to waken him up after the afternoon nap. But night time is totally crap. He has settled into a pattern of waking at 9/10, 1/2 and 5/6 after which he's usually up of the day. I followed the routine to the letter for 4 days but it made absolutely no difference! I tried settling him the other night at 9:30 without feeding him but he was so cross and woke up ds1. So where to go from here? I can understand him feeding all night when I'm away at work and he's not getting much during the day, and I guess that's now got into a cycle where he's just not that interested in boob during the day. Was desperately trying to feed him this morning before leaving for work but he was more interested in what his brother was doing. I've got a bad feeling that either I just ride it out, or I have to go cold turkey on night feeds. Argh help! Not sure I can bear the crying, plus it will disturb ds2. I know things could be worse with his sleeping but i am absolutely exhausted. I can't even get an early night with this evening wake up.

Any ideas? Hope things going better for you guys!

Hi huish. Hope work is going well. You are doing amazingly.
We got to the stage where getting to sleep was a battle of wills - he cried whilst I sung and rocked him and then I won in the end. He'd demand to be held and sleep for max 2 hours each stretch. I tried controlled crying. The same night as i loved him into his own room. (He would have struggled that first night anyway so may as well use the crying). Well the crying was horrid BUT last night he did 8 hours in one go - he is a different baby. I also reckon he's cried less overall, it just seems worse because I'm not cuddling him when he cries and it's in one long stretch. But the quality of sleep he's getting makes it worthwhile for me.

Sorry hit post too soon. Fat fingers!
Huish I know you don't want to wake DS1 but maybe worth it for improved sleeping overall?
Style are you all feeling better? What's the latest for you?