PUPD success stories/advice please!

[Huishnish]

My ds2 who is 5 months has suddenly started sleeping horribly, I mean waking every 1.5 hours, won't be put down in his cot, and usually is awake from 1:30am to 4:30. I'm trying to cope with him and his brother (just turned 2) on 3-4 hours of broken sleep a night. So... Thought I would try pupd. He's ebf and has always fed to sleep which was working brilliantly until last week. Would love to hear any stories from people who've tried it and any golden nuggets of advice! He is a great character and v strong willed so I'm not expecting it to be easy... TIA

That sounds great macca! big progress. We had a step back last night, up at 11:30, at least I managed to get him back to sleep without feeding, fed at 1 then up at 5 for the day. 5 is just too early for me! Think it might have been down to the overtiredness. Anyway I know it's not that bad and the main thing for me is that he'll go to sleep on his own in the cot. He's currently having a mega nap at the same time as his brother Hope all continues to go well for you x

Can I join please?!

I have 20/21 week old DD and the last few weeks she's stopped sleeping through and has been getting increasingly fussy in the evenings and adding a couple of night wakings too. The last two nights she's woken every 45 mins from being put down at 7/7:30 ish until the day starts again around 6:30/7am. I am on my kneeeeeees!!

I'm interested in the PUPD approach but don't really know what to do. At the moment I'm trying to put her down awake, which she will do and drift off, but she's still waking after 45mins. During the night she wakes and I'm not feeding her every time, sometimes I cuddle and she's so so tired she's asleep again in seconds but up again anything from 20mins-45mins later. I have three others at home still so I really really can't do more than a few more days of this! Very grateful for any suggestions and will hit the library tomorrow for any books!

Hi style, that sounds horrific. And you're managing 3 other wee ones too? Massive hugs to you, I'm struggling with the 2. No advice really, I had hoped that if they would go to sleep on their own in the cot we would have nailed it. Do you think it's a developmental thing? Did any of your others do this? I can remember my ds1 going through a horrible sleeping patch as he was learning/practising rolling over and then things improved once he was happy on his front. With him I just sat it out until he started sleeping better at 10.5 months but like you I just can't function if I dont get a bit more sleep. I'm not sure if pupd would work for you as my understanding of it is that it just teaches them to fall asleep without us which your wee one can already do. Baby whisperer is huge on daily routine, i.e. If you get that sorted nights will fall into place but I struggle to get ds2 into a good routine as I can hardly confine ds1 (just turned 2) to the house every time his brother needs a nap. I can only imagine how difficult that would be with 4. Hope tonight might be a bit better for you. Let us know how you're going x

How was your day/bedtime macca? Ended up having to let my wee one cry to sleep as I was putting his brother down and couldn't get them both settled. Felt awful off to sleep so that I can cope a bit better with the 5am sleep. Hope everyone has a good night

Oh my goodness style - having to deal with this and three other ones! Yes I agree with huish that if your LO can already do the sleeping by themselves thing then maybe PUPD isn't what you need - unless you use it to extend naps. Hey, I'm no expert though!
Last night was an amazing start. 17 minutes from going into the bedroom for DS to be asleep, and he fell asleep in the cot. He woke just about 3 hours later. Then though the issues started - he woke around half 10pm, and I tried to shush and put him back down, but ended up being up for over an hour with him as I had to change him and his cot as his nappy leaked. Has anyone else had that? Just a wet nappy, but they don't last the whole night. I've tried going up a size for the night time but it doesn't help. After that he did go back into the cot until around 4:30am so real progress! :o)
Don't you feel awful huish as you have to look after both your little ones, and you are teaching your children they need to share you too which is important. You're doing a grand old job.

Sorry I've been awol. I keep typing posts and they disappear then I don't have time to write them again 😣
Seems like it's slow progress for everyone. Although amazing for you getting them both to nap at the same time huish!! Style, does sound like 4 month sleep regression although strange she can get herself to sleep but then won't stay asleep. What does she do when she wakes? Could you try just leaving her if she's not upset? Macca, try the plus nappies eg size 3+ - the plus means they're more absorbent, not bigger (just learnt that recently, no idea with ds1!).
We do seem to be making slow progress. I yesterday I fed him to sleep as he was tired and hungry at the same time and he slept for an hour, so possibly getting used to naps in the cot? He's seemed a lot more relaxed and able to drift off, not sure why. Anyway, going to persevere with gradually weaning off feeding to sleep and onto rocking as a first step. Good luck for tonight!

Speedy thank you - great tip! For us it's 2 steps forward and one back. A bit of a false start for us tonight. 50 mins of pupd and then he's awake 10 mins later! I got him back to sleep without picking up though in a few minutes, only to wake him up again when I kissed him goodnight! Argh!

Good luck speedy- you are making progress with naps and I think you're right - when they are happy sleeping in the cot they'll sleep for longer. I hope anyway!

DH away tonight so I'm going to have the whole bed to myself. Hasn't happened since before DS!

Good luck tonight X

Hi all, macca hope you got to enjoy your night without too many interruptions! bit of a crap day here. Feel like I've reached a brick wall with this pupd rubbish. A few days ago I was able to put him down and he'd just drift off to sleep but all day today he's been crying for 10 mins ish when I've put him down. And they're really sad wee whimpers, not the angry cries he started with. Feel like I'm screwing it all up Plus night time is hardly any better, he's still up twice for feeds. At the start of all this I'd hoped that if I got him to settle himself in the cot he'd start sleeping through. Don't feel ready to deny him any milk during the night if he's waking for it. What is the answer? Do you think I should do pupd down every time he wakes during the night? It's so hard to know if he's hungry or just waking for comfort. I really wouldn't mind feeding him once but at the moment I'm not getting more than 2.5 hours at a time and I'm knackered. Macca are you feeding your wee one during the night? What progress today? Thanks all for the support x

Sorry guys, it all sounds very hard work , for everyone.

I do think with mine it's a combination of teething and wanting to practice rolling over. When she wakes she starts making noises and sounds quite happy for a few minutes. Then if I don't feed her she starts to cry. I wonder if I picked her up when she starts making noise if I could shush her back to nearly asleep and put her down again.

Better night last night but she woke when I came to bed so I fed and then she woke again at 3am and then up for the day at 7, so I really shouldn't complain as that's a world away from last week. It's just a big jump from sleeping through!

How are you getting on Huish? Me too. I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. Sat night we were awake on the hour every hour, except 2am. Exhausting. Today I took 35 minutes getting him asleep for a nap that lasted 15 minutes. Why are we trying?I could have had him asleep in 5 mins for 45 minutes in the carrier! I guess we need to keep perservering.

So what do you do? I find it hard to get DS calm and drowsy in the first place now - so I just put him down grumbling, and then the crying starts. I think I need to be stricter with putting him down but it's so hard to put down a baby when they are reasonably calm and you know they will start crying befre they hit the mattress (difficult both for your sake and theirs). Is that what you do? The only thing I've found to work is to get him grumpy and in the cot, let him suck my finger. I used to do this to get him to sleep, but now I try to just get him calm, and then shush and pat him in the cot to sleep. That seems to work, but isn't that just another bad habit to get out of? I'm abit grumpy with the whole thing at the moment, and I've found myself getting cross at him when I can't calm him. Which is so unfair, it's just not his fault at all, so I feel bad at that.
I was also wondering about that. I know that this age and weight they should be able to go ~6 hours before feeding, so I feed around 6:30pm ish when I start the bedtime routine, so my rule is that if he wakes before 11:30pm then I don't feed - ideally he'd go longer but I don't want to spend ages getting him back to sleep at midnight only for him to be hungry half an hour later. I think they should be able to go another few hours again, but I do feed each time he wakes after that - typically 11pm, 2am, 4am and then up at 6am when DH's alarm goes off. In honesty I think we should be doing PUPD then, but who has the energy for that? I'm thinking if we sort it at bedtime, and get self-settling in place, the night time wakings will naturally reduce. I hope. What do you think?

I think we need to remember the progress - for me a week ago I had to get in my PJs at 7pm, and lie down and feed to sleep and then stay that way until 7am. I probably had more sleep but that wasn't healthy! So we've got out of that habit - DS spent the whole night in his cot last night, so for me that's major progress.

For you - you have reduced your PUPD time which is fantastic work. I wish I could do that! If you keep going it will reduce further - and your DS has shown that he can get himself to sleep, so you just need to make sure that's the habit.

Sorry for the rambling, trying to have a moan and be positive too!

Good luck for tonight :o) x

Ps. Top advice from me. Don't trip over the cot on your way out. It will only end in your tears!

Thank you macca for reminding me of the progress. Much needed! The whole process has just made me realise there is no 'magic' solution (you'd think I would have known that already after ds1..) and I guess it's just going to take a lot of perseverance. Took me an hour to get him down for afternoon nap today and I was really cross. Then felt so guilty poor wee guy. I forget he is still so tiny. Then tonight he settled without a peep.
I know what you mean about the calm and drowsy thing. I have to put him down wide awake as the only way he gets drowsy is feeding. Also I've had a similar approach to the wakings, before 12 I pupd and after just feed him. Of course he falls asleep on the boob and I pop him back and rush back to bed! So that probably undoes the hard work of the day. But like you said just don't have the energy for anything else! I think you're probably right about getting the bedtime sorted, I'm sure eventually it will filter through to the night wakings. Some babies I guess just aren't wired to sleep through until a bit older.
Thanks for giving me a bit of perspective. Just went to check on ds1, sleeping so soundly, and remembered that he was the WORST sleeper and yet by 1 he could be relied on to sleep 12-13 hours straight. So, we will get there! Hope we all have a few hours peace tonight! x

Hi all, how was last night? Style, hope you had another good one? Like you I'm thinking more and more that my wee one is struggling with developmental stuff. He settles pretty well at bedtime and nap times but during the night is really hard work. Last night he was up at 10:15,11:30, 2 and 4 plus his brother was up twice. I'm thinking now of doing pupd every time he wakes. I just don't think he's hungry as he falls asleep pretty quickly on the boob each time. Any thoughts? Deep down I do feel like 5.5 months is too early to night wean but if I feed him straight away I just feel like he gets so used to the comfort. Problem is I like nothing more than watching him fall asleep like that and having a sleep cuddle - well, maybe I'd like getting a decent night's sleep! Thanks all x

Well last night I got him down ok, but then he was awake from 11pm until 2am. Feeding , singing, rocking, shushing - nothing could calm him. It was v odd. I tried for all that time, and then DH took over and the screaming intensified. Then after 15 minutes he handed him back to me and within a minute (honestly, I was clock watching!) he was asleep in my arms. It was almost instant. So strange.
Tonight and today I feel like our hard work has been undone - it's such a battle to get him calm - either at nap time or bed time - he screams and thrashes around so much it's hard to hold him and he does hurt me when he hits out. It's as if he hates me and doesn't want to be held by me. But then he doesn't want to be put down either. I feel like I've made sleep time horrid for him what I do now is put him in the cot, he sucks my finger until he's calm and then I shush him to sleep - trying not to let him suck to sleep. Sorry bit miserable today. I feel like I've made it worse as last week getting him to sleep was easy but now it's tough - but then he sleeps in his own bed know which is progress.
How are you getting on ? Good to know we're on the same page milk-wise. I agree too soon for nighttime weaning.
Good luck tonight everyone X

I hope everyone had or is having a better bedtime this evening and if not.

I'm getting a bit confused whether now DD isn't sleeping through, should I PUPD during the night for wakes after midnight or just feed as perhaps she's hungry. She's also stretching out feeds during the day from every 2.5hrs to 3 or 3.5 and the odd 4hr stretch so that could mean she's hungrier during the night. However, as you found macca, she is asleep virtually instantly when I start feeding so I'm not entirely convinced it's hunger. Aaah so difficult and you know it's just a stage and in a few months things will be very different...

Up for the first feed Just remembered what I used to do with DD3, (who woke every two hours up until 10 months where I finally had to do something before I melted away), I set a timer on my phone for ten minutes and swap sides, set another ten minute alarm and then back to bed because I'd nod off feeding otherwise and wake to find she'd been sucking for 40 mins. Then if I tried to get away without feeding from the other side too she would know and start screaming so I'd be stuck for an hour at a time for each night feed, only to be woken again shortly after!

Anyway, the idea was if she was just waking for comfort then the shorter feeds would dissuade her from continuing to do it as she wasn't getting an hour long cuddle any more. It did actually work quite quickly and then I dropped slowly from ten mins to nine, eight etc. I can't remember how low I got before she started to drop the feeds but it really didn't take long. Although obviously at 10 months and eating 3 meals plus snacks a day plus milk she really didn't need night feeds anyway! But thought it might help someone...

Hi all, macca I'm so sorry you're feeling low. I do think hang on in there as mine went through a worse stage and I think (touch wood) might be coming out of it again. Do you think he might be just really fighting sleep? I'm absolutely sure it's not that he doesn't want to be held by you. If he's anything like mine he's just becoming so interested in the world and it's a pain to have to go to sleep. Getting him to sleep in his cot is massive progress and vital. We do also need to take care of ourselves as well as the small people! I really hope last night was better

style that's really helpful re the feeding, thanks. I'll try that I think. Last night I decided to delay feeding a bit, which is what we did with ds1 when he was sleeping horribly. So at 1 when he woke I tried pupd for 10 mins ish but then fed him when he didn't settle. I should have done the same at 5 but was knackered so fed him straight away and he fell asleep on the boob in a few mins so obviously wasn't hungry whereas at 1 he sucked like mad. Unfortunately he was up at 5 for the day could not got him settled again. But, naps seem to be improving, easy to put down, and just now he woke up, cried for a few seconds but by the time I'd got upstairs he was asleep again. Morning nap was 1.5 hours. Huge improvement and makes a big difference to my life and ability to cope with 2. Just trying to remind myself constantly that it does pass, and when we do finally start sleeping again we will feel like we can conquer the world!

Hi both. Thanks for the words of comfort huish. Good point. Currently he's in the cot for his second nap of the day, so we're making progress. I'm getting him to sleep in my arms (I know, naughty!) but then not waiting for the deep sleep until I put him down, so he does wake a bit, and then goes back to sleep in the cot. I think of that as progress! Slow, but still.

Good idea re feeding, thanks. I was going to ask how you know if a BF baby is hungry when they wake without offering - if they are just sucking for comfort and not taking anything at say the midnight waking, then they may well be hungry at 3am, but you think you've fed them at midnight. Trying to settle first without feeding is a good idea - if they settle they weren't hungry! Seriously good thinking. Honestly I used to be smart - I think I gave birth to my brain as well as my baby! HAHA.

I think he was fighting sleep, and was feeling a bit poorly - I've got a bit of a cold - nothing too bad, and I can just have a cup of tea and I'm ok but when you're 5 months old and don't really know what a snotty nose and a sore throat are about, it can't be very nice.

Good luck tonight everyone! Keep it up - that's awesome news re the naps Huish. Hurrah.

and because tonight I'm going to bed when DS does and I'm going to watch last night's bake off, before falling into a long, all night sleep. HA!

Sorry about the early morning huish and macca yes the cold must be affecting your DS and his sleep for sure. Mine has a cold and the every 45mins waking last week was just before her little nose started streaming so it was definitely connected.

We didn't do too badly last night, 11pm, 4am and then up at 7am. Her little hands were frozen and I keep thinking that's why she's waking. She's now in a 2.5.tog bag, a long sleeved vest and a grow over that but hands and arms still freezing when she wakes. What is everyone else putting their babes in? I think I have a bag with sleeves in the 18m + size so will have to buy one for this size.

macca love your idea for the evening! I've just got the 2 rascals into bed and going to sit with a cup of tea and watch neighbours (dh away.. in a hotel ) I remember with ds1 when his sleeping was at it's absolute worst fantasising about getting sick so I could go into hospital and SLEEP! Not quite that bad with ds2 yet....

I agree the feeding question is hard to fathom. I'm not really sure mine needs to feed at all overnight, he has slept through a few times, but I can't bear to not feed just in case. This morning I fed him at 5 (hVing fed him at 12:30) but he really just sucked for a few mins then fell asleep. I was also v naughty last night and let him fall asleep on the boob then had the most lovely sleepy baby cuddle listening to his wee snores. I think I really needed to allow myself that, otherwise what's the point of having this gorgeous wee cuddly guy?!

style that sounds like a great night! I have the same worry about the cold. Thermometer says 19 in his room, he's in a 2.5 tog bag, short sleeved vest and babygro but when I go in his hands are freezing. He's already in much more than the grobag recommends...

for me then off to bed. Good luck for tonight x

Oh gosh totally re sleepy cuddles. I never get anything done during nap time because I just sit and look at him (and sometimes cry happy tears!). These days will go so quickly we have to make the most of the cuddles. I'm sure we won't look back and say well I wish I didn't have that snuggle. I say enjoy it.
Well we're both in bed and DS is asleep. Was so odd getting him to Sleep - he kept going really still in the cot and almost asleep - I thought I'd cracked it and then would cry as if he was falling slowly asleep and then realising that's what was happening. V odd! Ah well we live and learn.
I've just changed into a baby grow and a long sleeved vest, plus a cellular blanket. I can't get on with these sleeping bags. Are they as amazing as everyone says? It's pretty warm here though (I'm in the south and house v well insulated - room currently at 23 degrees).
Good luck to you both tonight!

Thanks macca! Hope you enjoyed Bake Off! Our house is freezing, SE here too but we have high ceilings, no double glazing, old sash Windows, I could go on, the place really doesn't hold the heat. We have a down duvet and when I get out of it for night feeds a freezing cold draught hits me! So goodness knows how cold DD is.

But yes, Gro bags, other brands available, are awesome. I love 'em, especially the travel ones for evening journeys home from odd places. Right from week one this time DD was wriggling out of her blankets, I could not keep her swaddled. So I swapped to bags much earlier than with the others.

huish I don't think I saw how old your DS is, is he in his own room? I actually found mine slept better when they went into their own rooms post six month mark. Although they say babies regulate their breathing from hearing you overnight but I think there's a hint of knowing you're there for cuddles too

Went to bed and DD's hands were freezing so I put a cardigan on over her bag and now feeding to warm her up!

Hi all, how's it going? Not much to report here, ds has had a bit of a cough so have given up on working on the night wakings. More trouble than it's worth it seems at the moment anyway. Going down varies between absolutely fine and a bit of crying but most of the time he seems to settle better/quicker if I'm not in the room bothering him with pupd. It feels so against my instincts to just put him down and walk out the room We've had a couple of good nights though, feeds at 11 and 4 and up at 7:30 (yes, both of them!). He is still freezing in the night though, same as you style freezing hands when I go in to feed him poor thing. And yes, he's in his own room. He's 5.5 months but I moved him a couple of weeks ago when the sleeping was really bad in the hope it might help...
One thing I'm not sure about- he is really not bothered about his milk first thing in the morning, thinking that probably means he doesn't really need that 4am feed. He's so easily distracted during his feeds these days too, he's always pulling off and craning his neck to see what ds1 is up to!
Anyway hope all going well in the macca and style houses!