PUPD success stories/advice please!

[Huishnish]

My ds2 who is 5 months has suddenly started sleeping horribly, I mean waking every 1.5 hours, won't be put down in his cot, and usually is awake from 1:30am to 4:30. I'm trying to cope with him and his brother (just turned 2) on 3-4 hours of broken sleep a night. So... Thought I would try pupd. He's ebf and has always fed to sleep which was working brilliantly until last week. Would love to hear any stories from people who've tried it and any golden nuggets of advice! He is a great character and v strong willed so I'm not expecting it to be easy... TIA

Hi huish and style. Been a bit quiet here as we've been super busy (and also had issues with the MN app!). Sorry to hear about the cough. Hope you are all better and DS1 didn't catch it! It's so great to hear that he's settling well himself though - but I know what you mean it's against your instincts - there's a bit of me that hopes I get to snuggle DS to sleep for a while yet! Awesome news re both DSs being up at 7:30am - long may that continue for you! Poor little poppets being cold. It's just not so nice at the moment is it, and these LOs haven't experienced cold nights before!

So, I sort of gave up a bit on the PUPD as DS and I both had a bit of a cold (the type where you go to bed at 8am with a lemsip and wake up fine, but obviously that's not going to happen here!) so feeling sorry for ourselves we had a nice snuggle all night. That was a few nights ago.

Well style you have CHANGED my life. I dug out a grobag that was one of my presents from work and it has made such a difference. I wonder if DS was waking up a bit (and also hard to put down) because of the cold and feeling the temperature change when going onto the mattress. Thank you!

Now what happens is I can get DS to sleep easily in my arms, and then almost immediately put him in the cot. He either doesn't stir, or will cry for a few seconds and some shushing/patting will send him back to sleep, or, he'll wake up and be calm. I've managed to get him to sleep from awake in the cot a couple of times, so I am doing a sort of PUPD, but not too strictly. It has made a huge difference. This evening from going into the bedroom in a grobag and awake and chatting to asleep in the cot and me leaving the room was 6 minutes. A PB! :o)

I've also had a couple of occasions where he's woken up, and I've picked him up from the cot and just popped him onto my mattress whilst I get my dressing gown on etc. to go and feed, and check and he's fallen asleep again. Amazing.

We then get wakings at ~10pm, 1am, 4am and 5am. Like you huish DS isn't particularly interested in feeding when he wakes up so I suspect he can avoid the 4am feeds. 5am is time for a cuddle rather than a feed! I'm going to try to cut down on the 10pm feed to start with (that will take some effort from me so I need to summon that) in the hope that I can attack the 4am feed next. If we can get it down to one feed a night that would be amazing. He's also started to get out of the awake-for-2-hours-at-1am-habit which of course is great.

I'm still working on day time naps. How often are your LOs sleeping? Until today, we were having ~2.5 hours during the day - around 9:30am, 1pm and about 4pm, but today (just because I was out) we skipped the final nap and it didn't seem to make a difference. I know that when they hit around 5months (which DS now is) they can potentially drop that final nap. Have you done that with yours huish?

Bit of a mammoth update, as I haven't been around for a while. Hope you guys are getting on well. Good luck for this evening! x

Oh. Ps. How do you go about weaning off night feeds? I'm thinking try to settle back to sleep for a few minutes - if I can then he's not hungry, if I can't then feed. Did you have other ideas?

Ah and argh! He slept from 7pm until nearly 1am. Woweeee. It was me who woke him up! I was worried he'd overheated in his gro bag so I tried to check. Alas not! Never mind. He can do it! hope you are both ok. X

Ah and argh! He slept from 7pm until nearly 1am. Woweeee. It was me who woke him up! I was worried he'd overheated in his gro bag so I tried to check. Alas not! Never mind. He can do it! hope you are both ok. X

Hi both, we aren't doing too badly, had a couple of nights with one waking at around 10/11 and the next between 4/5. But I'm up now and she is ice cold. I've put a cardigan on under her grow so she has warmer arms and that has pretty much knocked one waking on the head completely I think. So the cold is deffo a factor.

macca so glad the bag is helping but can't take credit for that! They are so useful!

I think that sounds like a good idea re how to wean off night feeds. That's pretty much what I've done before. And a gentle way without forcing them is to time the feeds and get them gradually shorter til they can't be bothered waking because they don't get much! Or offer water instead of milk. Disclaimer, I haven't tried that last one ever tho I've meant to

Hi both, sounds like sleep going pretty well for you guys. I have run out of steam and decided to settle for the status quo for now. Last few nights have been wakings at 11 and 4 ish and up for the day at 7:30 which is miles better than it was when I started all this. I tried one night trying to settle him without feeding- nightmare. He cried and cried, I felt shit and got no sleep. So will stick to a quick feed (I'm just giving one side each time) and hope he will drop the feeds on his own. Going back to work in 3 weeks so now have to stress about how the f**k I'm going to get him to take a bottle! Good luck to you both and thanks for all the support on here x

Ah well done Huish, that sounds good. We too have had some improvement to the level I'm happy to go with for now. Seem to have dropped the first waking sometime between 9:30pm and 11pm and going through til somewhere between 4-6am then quick feed and going back down til 7am ish. That's fine for me and I think she's very cold so I'm hunting on eBay for a 3.5tog bag and she's wearing a cardigan every night to keep her arms warm.

Hope you're both feeling better!

I nearly didn't put that in writing...DD's HS four feeds this last night. Up now doing no4. Oh well, hope it's just a one off!

style that is a bugger. Just when you think you've got it nailed... let's hope tonight is better. I've had a few tough nights with ds2 too, this morning he was up 4:30-6 but did at least then sleep until 8 when ds1 woke up. I know how lucky I am with that lie in! I don't really know what to do about the cold. Do you follow the grobag guidelines for what they should wear? It seems crazy to me, it says at 20 degrees he should just be in a long sleeved vest and 2.5 grobag. He is freezing! But I'm still paranoid about him being too hot

I don't follow the guidelines no, I believe that in this country the guidelines are that babies shouldn't have sleeping bags with sleeves in case they overheat but I've never had any babies of mine wake up anything other than freezing without sleeves!

Even in the summer, their arms get chilly in a sleeveless bag unless we're having a heatwave.

DD is currently wearing a LS vest, baby grow, great grandma's knitted cardigan and 2.5tog sleeveless bag. Her little hands are like blocks of ice when she wakes for a feed and I hold each one while I feed until she's warmed back up. I think our room is probably much colder than 20 degrees overnight though. Need a room thermometer!

Sounds like a good idea to just feed one side, DD seems to know if I stop after one side and starts crying so I have to Do the other side too!

Argh we are really back to square one!! We've had a bedtime feed, a wake up around 10-11, next one 1-2, next one 4-5 and next one 6-7 for the last couple of days. I really can't do this!! Any suggestions please guys?!

Argh indeed. We are pretty much the same, sometimes without the 1-2 wake up but like you bedtime feed, 11-12, sometimes 1-2, 3-4 and then up for the day 6-7. I can't even really have an early night as I just get to sleep and have to get up again. I'm really not sure what to do. I think we may have ended up in this cycle where he eats so much at night he's not that hungry during the day. He's also teething like mad and has an endless cold so I don't feel like doing anything hard core at the moment, not that I think I could take it anyway! Do you think doing pupd for the night wakings might help? I'm just worried that I spend ages doing it and he's actually hungry and desperate for a feed. I couldn't bear that. I think to do pupd I have to be really sure he's not hungry otherwise I'd just cave in after 20 mins. If you have any brain waves let me know!

I do remember the HV saying they feed in 24hr cycles, can't remember if it's been said on here already! But obviously if they've had a heavy night they're lighter feeding during the day. So you can end up in a vicious circle as it's hard to knock them out of extra feeds at night. I'm offering a feed every two hours during the day and hoping for a better night but it's not working yet. She is stretching out naturally during the day now and doesn't need to feed so often but it's all I can think of. I'm sorry you're in the same boat!!

Yes maybe PUPD for the night wakings is the way to go if you've been offering plenty of feeds at night. I wish we had a spare room DH could go in so he's not disturbed and then I would do PUPD at night.

Sorry that last para should say offering plenty of feeds in the day!

Right, today I have offered a feed every couple of hours, most have been taken. I'm now doing a dream feed to pre-empt the first wake up and see if that will knock DD through a wake up and boost her on to a 4am wake up at least. Hopefully that will work! I'm so so tired and have been fighting a sore throat and rough feeling for weeks now thanks in part I'm sure to all these night wakings. Hope you guys have a better night.

That makes sense about the 24 hour cycle. I never know if feeding more often in the day really works as he then tends to snack and not have a big full feed. Argh, out of ideas/energy! Do you think the daytime routine affects the night sleeping? We're in a pretty strong routine but wondering if his main sleep is too late (2-3:30 ish). I've timed it to coincide with ds1's sleep so I can get some stuff done. I'm not a fan of Gina ford but was wondering about trying her timings for a few days to see if it makes a difference. Probably it's a fat chance of sticking to it with ds1 to think of too! Hope you have a better night x

How was last night in the end style? Ds2 was up first time at 10:45 and my heart sank, but he then slept until 5, had a feed and went back to sleep until 7 so pretty good. I tried the Gina ford timings thus morning- no chance! Failed to feed him at 7 as was getting ds1 up, so fed him at 8 and he was desperate for more milk by 10:30. She suggests feeding at 7 and then not again until 11:45 ha ha. Has made me even more certain to go with the flow and not to bother with arbitrary 'rules' to fit the wee one into. Doesn't help the night wakings though...

Sounds like you had a slightly better night than us! I did a dream feed at 10pm and then she woke at just before 3, had a 20min feed, I didn't even bother trying to shush her. She went through til just before six and had one side and then woke up again around 7. I held off feeding until 8.

We've been out a lot today and feeding hasn't been so close together so I'm guessing tonight might be worse. I'm getting cluster headaches which is a sign of over tiredness so I'd really like to try and sort this out before it gets any worse!

I'm with you... feel completely and utterly exhausted. Was last night any better? I tried a dream feed last night for the first time ever but it didn't help, still up at 1:30 then 5:30 for the day. When I got up this morning I was dead set on working on the wake ups tonight but I'm so tired now just don't know that I have the energy. Was thinking of doing pupd for 20 mins on each waking and then feeding if I can't settle him. We did something similar with ds1 at 5 months and it really helped his sleeping. If only I could get DH to help I would go for it but he is working like mad at the moment and doesn't get involved during the nights. What are you thinking style?

Hi lovelies. I'm sorry it's been a bit quiet from me. I have been thinking about you guys. I was in JoJo Maman today and I saw they had sleeping bags with sleeves - I hadn't seen them before but it might help you with your cold arms.
We've been up and down here with sleep - last night was 'good' in that DS only woke at 8:30pm, 11pm. 2:30am, and 5:15am, and then 7am - much better than in the past where we'd be up every hour from 1am, but then it wasn't great in that we were up for over an hour each time - feeding and then trying to settle him. None of this feeding to sleep business for me - I would if I could but it doesn't work!!!
I had the whole day at home yesterday and thought I'd work on naps - I did PUPD for the naps and took over an hour for the first nap. It lasted precisely 12 minutes! Ridiculous. We both ended up in tears! So yesterday was an awful day for naps, but a reasonable night time. I wish I knew why!
huish that sounds like a good idea - try to do PUPD but feed if it doesn't work - that way you're getting him back without feeding if he's not actually hungry.
style I hope you're feeling better. It's so exhausting isn't it?
I see what you mean about the 24 hours - it makes sense, but then I'm always worried about over-feeding in the day as I don't want to turn DS into a snacker. Who knows how it works!?
Good luck tonight everyone. I've just been interrupted writing this by our first awakening. It's so odd. He cried, I picked up him and put him back in his cot. The whole thing lasted about 4 minutes - but if I left him for a minute or two to cry he can't settle himself.

Hi macca good to hear your news. Oh that sounds like a hard night, you must be knackered Have you just started doing pupd for naps? I hope it works for you. For us that's been the main positive in the whole process- that I can now do a wee nap routine then put him down wide awake and he falls asleep on his own. And same at bedtime. Occasionally I have to be in with him for 10 mins or so if he's got overtired but I usually now just stroke his head while he drops off rather than going through the whole back-breaking pupd palaver. I've also started re-settling him when he wakes up early on in his nap- use pupd or just keep my hand on him and stroke his head. Don't know if it's related but he has occasionally started napping for longer on his own, maybe just a developmental thing.

Don't think I can bring myself to do any 'training' tonight - anything to get back back to bed quickly I think!

Good luck to both x

Hi both, sorry about the naps macca, sounds very hard. You know how much they need their day time sleep or the night time is so affected by it too. for you.

I think naps is a developmental thing. DD was napping ok but all very short. Then refused point blank to sleep in her cot for naps and has been in the pram only sitting virtually bolt upright for them all. She seemed to love it and even if the others were loud and woke her up I could rock her back off and she was Having a solid 2hrs morning and afternoon. But I really wanted her to be able to nap in the cot during the day too. Partly because I'm constantly snapping at the others to be more quiet and I felt bad for them. So I've kept trying to transition back to the cot. It's taken a few weeks of her waking after 45mins and screaming the place down so being over tired as she's not getting enough sleep but she's going in there awake now and having a proper 1.5hrs or so am and pm. But I thought we'd never see the back of the micro length naps and get some decent length ones.

Last night wasn't too bad, dream feed at 10:30-11:30 (too long but I drifted off), she woke at 3ish and then at 7 but I still feel wrecked and was disappointed that after a long and later dream feed she didn't manage any longer. I don't think she was hungry as she fell asleep feeding after a few minutes one side but she was cold so I wanted to make sure she warmed up.

Feeding now so will see how we go tonight.

Sweet dreams everyone!

How did we all get on? These LOs are right creatures... We're missing my favourite class of the week now because he is now having the nap to end all naps - over an hour! (That's impressive for him!). Why not on a day we don't have to go out?!

macca I apologise, my huffing about nap length seems a bit daft when you were really getting micro naps

I'm so tired I can't actually remember what happened last night. Suffice to say the dream feed isn't helping.

Bed time feed now and hoping for a good night for everyone!