Not sure what to do but have to try something

[Spod]

Ok... I'm now sleep deprived enough! Our dd is 6.5 months and is leaving me exhausted. She goes down in her cot (in my room) at night around 8pm after a bf... that parts fine. I dream feed her around 11pm and she goes back in her cot...fine. Its the rest of the night thats the problem - ie when i need to sleep. Sometimes she wakes at 2, sometimes 3, or 4am.... normally just once as i then bring her in bed with me as i'm too tired to put her back in her cot. I know that shes only hungry when it gets to aboyut 3.30 at the earliest, not before. But when she in bed with me it feels as though shes snacking all the time, hence i get very little deep sleep. I think its now become a habit, she now rarely takes a milk feed in the day before 4pm (she has 2 solid meals a day now too). I havent minded too much till now as shes been teething, but her second tooth cut yesterday so i wanna get more sleep now. She also has a problem with daytime sleep... normally only managing 2 spells of around 40 mins..... but shes always been a poor daytime sleeper. what can i try ? i dont wanna do cc. When she was around 16 weeks she started to sleep for 7 hours without waking, but she was going to bed at midnight with me (but her in her cot iyswim) any suggestions would be great;ly appreciated. thanks.

Just to clarify - when I say she shouted for us for an hour and a half what I mean is that we went in at regular intervals during that time but it took that long for her to go back down..Didnt want you to think I was a terrible mother!

Just wanted to add my support Spod. My dd is exactly the same age as yours and we too have come to the end of our tether. (Although reading your post, I realise that my tether must be a lot shorter than yours.) Our dd goes down at seven and wakes for one feed sometime between three and four. The problem is that she will then only go back down until five- five thirty and then expect us to get up for the day! Like yours she will only sleep for two forty minute bursts in the day and so would be hanging by the end of the day.

I thought cc wasn't for me either but eventually I bought that Dr Ferber book (Think there are several threads on it here) 'Solving your childs sleep problems'. I was amazed to read his assertion that 'no healthy child needs feeding in the night beyond three or four months old.' ( I think he runs a sleep clinic so has a fair amount of experience) He does say that if you are happy continuing to do so then fine - the child will eventually sleep through but it might take up to a year! That was enough for me to decide that no I don't want to continue night feeds and that something needed to be done.

We have spent the last two nights employing his cc technique which hasn't been nearly as awful as I expected. He suggests going in at ever increasing intervals and comforting your baby without picking her up. I might be lucky but as a consequence my dd never got hysterical although she did 'shout' for us for an hour and a half on the first night. And he is absolutely right - when we've got up with her she hasn't even seemed that ravenous for her first feed. It's reassured me that it was habit, not hunger that was waking her. We haven't cracked it yet but I'll let you know how we get on tonight... Even if you decide that you can't do it I thoroughly recommend buying the book - he has all sorts of other solutions to sleep problems that might be worth you looking at. Good luck

Just wanted to add my support Spod. My dd is exactly the same age as yours and we too have come to the end of our tether. (Although reading your post, I realise that my tether must be a lot shorter than yours.) Our dd goes down at seven and wakes for one feed sometime between three and four. The problem is that she will then only go back down until five- five thirty and then expect us to get up for the day! Like yours she will only sleep for two forty minute bursts in the day and so would be hanging by the end of the day.

I thought cc wasn't for me either but eventually I bought that Dr Ferber book (Think there are several threads on it here) 'Solving your childs sleep problems'. I was amazed to read his assertion that 'no healthy child needs feeding in the night beyond three or four months old.' ( I think he runs a sleep clinic so has a fair amount of experience) He does say that if you are happy continuing to do so then fine - the child will eventually sleep through but it might take up to a year! That was enough for me to decide that no I don't want to continue night feeds and that something needed to be done.

We have spent the last two nights employing his cc technique which hasn't been nearly as awful as I expected. He suggests going in at ever increasing intervals and comforting your baby without picking her up. I might be lucky but as a consequence my dd never got hysterical although she did 'shout' for us for an hour and a half on the first night. And he is absolutely right - when we've got up with her she hasn't even seemed that ravenous for her first feed. It's reassured me that it was habit, not hunger that was waking her. We haven't cracked it yet but I'll let you know how we get on tonight... Even if you decide that you can't do it I thoroughly recommend buying the book - he has all sorts of other solutions to sleep problems that might be worth you looking at. Good luck

How you getting on Spod? I had to come back to this thread to report the results of employing the Dr Ferber technique. It still may not be for you but I have to say I'm a convert. Today after two nghts of emplhoing his technique my dd has just slept for twelve hours uninterrupted! She called out for two minutes at five and then went back to sleep. It is bliss! I have had eight hours sleep for the first time in ages. And I have to say I have NEVER seen my dd in such a good mood. Which means she can properly tire herself out on the playmat. Which, I'm hoping means she will sleep for a proper amount of time in the day...I am about to get tough about the naps too. Good luck with whatever you decide to do

oh god ragtaggle thats great. i am at the end of my tether.... after three fairly good nights, we're worse than ever, now dd wont even go to bed! last night she cried so much when she woke at 9pm that i assumed something must be wrong so eventually she came in with me all night. 2 nite she wont go to bed in her cot.... again, she got so hysterical, sobbing etc, and wouldnt be comforted by dh that i went to her, and she has livened up... but no signs of sleep. i dont know what to do.... she always went into her cot to sleep no bother... moving her into her own room and getting dh to go to her in the night seems to have made things worse... i dont know what to do. i havent the strength for cc.

btw, bundle, i am doing own foods for dd, she seems to like them just fine.

Ragtaggle.... before you starting the ferber thing were you convinced that you dd wasnt hungry? what if i get started on the training and half way through the night think she is hungry...what happens then?

Poor you, Spod. It is so difficult isn't it? I would definitely advise reading the Ferber book before you try any of the methods. You need to convince yourself that you believe in him and his ideas before you embark on anything as scarey as cc. Only then can you stick with it, I think. My dh and I re-read the relevant passages before we started the other night to strengthen our resolve. It seems to have only taken two nights (Although I'm wary of saying this is it- Ferber says it can take up to seven nights.) On the first night it took an hour and a half of shouting (With us going in at intervals - starting at five minutes and working up to fifteen) On night 2 it took an hour with us going in at ten minute intervals first and then twenty.

The next night she slept from 6.30-6.30 (Early bedtime due to the fact that she was hanging from the night) And last night she slept seven untll six. (She had a dirty nappy so I got up with her at this point) Everything is so much easier to deal with when you've got a good nights sleep behind you. And by the smile on my dd's face after two good nights sleep I'd say she's not psychologically damaged. Ferber addresses this concern in his book (will it harm my child?) and I believed him when he said it wouldn't . However, it might not be for you so read the book first.

You asked how I knew she wasn't hungry. I would say that this is easier for me than you as I gave up breastfeeding two weeks ago, when dd reached six months. (She refused the bottle until five and a half months and then just suddenly took it so I started cutting out feeds from then) I know she should have roughly 21 ounces a day so I made sure she had that in the day. I feed her at seven, eleven thirty, two thirty and six thirty. She has solids at all but the two thirty feed.

We have also got tough about taking our dd into our bed in the mornings. Like you, I used to haul her in as I was too exhausted to do anything else. But with this new system we get her up when she wakes (Me and dh take it in turns) so she has to really want to get up. I'm hoping that she will suddenly start thinking 'I think I'll leave it till 8 tomorrow' when she realises that it's exhausting playing so early. (Yeah right!)

I should say, though, that cc did not work for her daytime naps. We did it at lunch time yesterday and she cried hysterically for an hour (With me going in at intervals) Ferber recommends giving up after an hour in the daytime so we (gratefully) did. I assume she cried harder because she has more stamina in the day but I found that awful.There's no doubt she needs the sleep though because an hour later I went out and she slept for forty minutes in her buggy.

Grrr. I think I'm going to try and leave the daytime naps as I found it pretty distressing and I don't have the energy for that battle too. Good Luck with whatever you decide

thanks for the encouragement ragtaggle... I'm glad cc is working well for you and I'm envious of the 12 hours! dd eventually went to sleep with me lying next to her at 10.30 last night, so i put her in her own cot. she woke at 2.20 and 4.40, dh went both times and i didnt feed her, she settled quickly each time. she woke again at 7.40 when i fed her. so i know now that she can go 9 hours at least! we'll do the same 2nite, just calm her and not feed her... i think i'll try this before resorting to cc. shes never had a problem settling in her cot before (when it was in our room) but the last 2 nites have been a real drama. the good thing is that for 3 days running now she has taken a 2 hour lunchtime nap...which has never happened, and she still has a 40 minute nap in the afternoon. i shal try and move this forward so that shes extra tired for bedtime. what gets me though is that i let her guide bedtime, it is the same sort of time every night, but she give the cues that shes tired. and she's been hanging, but still this bedtime drama. eventually i raised her matress to a slope in case she had belly ache, ear ache, finger ache! i just need more sleep... and i'm sure she does too! i hope I'm not making things worse by all the sudden changes but it was time to do something. thanks for listening ragtaggle, keep posting about your little one, it does make me feel better to know that things can change.

Hi Spod
Have been watching this thread. I really feel for you with the day time nap performance. Our dd used to be really bad at that too and I used to tear my hair out with worry - used to be my fav subject

Great now though.. but like your dd wakes up abit at night. She had a terribly itchy scalp which ruined things completely. I am not into cc either.. so we have been taking it slowly and things are improving. She is next to us on a futon so re-settling isn´t too much of a hassle.
Good that u are taking it slowly too.. I think introducing too much at once makes for loads more problems and anxiety.

All the best!

Been following this too. DD for the last few nights has stopped feeding at night. She will go to sleep downstairs by the breast around 7.30-8pm and if I am going to bed early I'll keep her with me until going up or if I want tostay up I'll put her on our bed (superking) until i go up. She usually has a feed about 10.30pm if disturbed by me coming to bed.
Next feed is then between 6.30-7.30.
Daytime naps are in my arms now if short, car if out. I try to put her with dh in the bed as he works nights but she usually wakes up wideawake if put down anywhere no matter how long she has slept.
I'm not keen on doing cc but then am happy with the way things are so no need.
No sign of any teeth yet.
I may well put her in the cot for the nightsleep if she keeps up the no feeding as no need to be next to me iyswim.

Unfortunately my breasts havent twigged on to this yet...

he he hercules... know what you mean! well..... sat night was just awful.... for me and dd.... horrid. fed as usual, but she wouldnt go into cot... screamsed the place down, even though i or dh with her... after 2 hours i couldnt take any more... the sobbing was too much... brought her downstairs and she was fine, although obviously tired... eventually she just came to bed with me and clung to me all night... definately did not want to sleep alone.... and by then i felt so awful for her that i wanted her with me anyway!. Sunday night was better though. Did a much later bedtime, fed, put her down asleep. she woke after an hour, dd spent and hour with her, through the sobbing and crying and a nappy change and she then settled till 2.30, dh settled her within 5 mins, then awake again for a feed at 8.20... another 10 hours between feeds!! she can do it!!! Thing was my boobs were so full by 7.00 am that i was awake and tempted to go and get her to empty them for me!!!! i didnt! she pigged out on milk, we got up, got to the bottom of the stairs and she threww it up all over me!! nice! Have just put her to bed in her cot after a feed, so we shall see waht happens... daytime naps, sun= long naps as she was still exhausted... but this was in buggy... we went out for the day. today- 2 longish naps of around an hour... we'll see what happens 2nite.

i am hesitantly posting this.... but.... SHE SLEPT THROUGH THE NIGHT. she went to bed with a bf around 9.15, woke to be winded about an hour later and then slept till 7.20 then we fed again and she came into bed with and we slept a bit more....... being careful not to count any chickens.... see what happens with naps and 2nite.

Brilliant spod!!!!

i forgot to mention that there was no sobbing session last night either.... we'll see how 2nite goes... fingers crossed! how long do you think it would be before i can go to comfort her in the night without her expecting food.... as dh is currently doing it... it would surely be ages and ages wouldnt it?

That's brilliant! Its weird when it first happens isn't it? YOu wake up all confused wondering if you fed them but forgot about it!

She can do it! Is she eating more solids during the day then?

REally pleased for you.

not really more solids, but more milk, as before she was taking most of her milk when in bed with me! i hope this lasts! i still feel knackered though! thanks for the support tatcity!

she slept through again last night... no tears or tantrums... gone down fine 2nite too..... at her normal bedtime again too! ... off to sip some wine!

fantastic spod, lets hope she keeps it up!

she's not going to bed 2nite... i gave her a huge feed but that seemed to liven her up.... dh is with her..... hope its just a blip?

oh bum... we're back to the sobbing and crying! is there anything other than gripe water i can give for wind as i think that may be the problem?

after that she actually slept through, 12 hours between feeds, even woke for an hour between 7-8am and played/sang her self back to sleep for 40 mins.... so still doing well!!

ok, i knew i shouldnt have posted how well she did! for some reason, she's now waking in the early hours thinking its playtime, dh goes to her, and i know she isnt hungry but she wont go back to sleep. and its not as if she sleeps through till early hours either, shes still waking 2 or 3 times.......... am soooooooooooooo tired

things arent any better and i dont know what to do... i know she can sleep through but she just isnt. i was so hopeful yesterday, she ate three large meals, had plenty of milk, her teeth werent bothering her, she went to bed fine apart from waking with wind a couple of times.... i even dreamfed her at 11.30, but still she woke at 4am... after an hour and a half of crying and refusing to settle with dh, i had to feed her and just kept her in bed with me so i could get some sleep.... i still dont want to do cc....

Poor you Spod, i had exactly the same with my DS1 .. up until he was about 2and 1/2. The longer i left it the worse the problem got.I did CC in the end but it was a lot harder with a 21/2 yr old than it was when i did it with my DS2 at about 8 months. THe problem with CC is that you dont just do it once for a week and that is the problem sorted.. you keep having to re-do it after illness, teething etc.I didnt want to do CC either with my DS1 .. that is why i put it off for 2 years. When i did do it (Hard as it was) it was like a miracle afterwards. He did not suffer because of it, if anything he was a happier child, i was happier because i was getting more sleep etc.. if you did try i am sure you would get lots of mumsnet support