Misery Loves Company...nope. Still not sleeping.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Long-term sleep deprivation getting you down?

Join us here for and plenty of sympathy.

Ride the mo-fo out or something must be done - the choice is yours.

And remember the First Rule of Sleep Club - do not mention that things are going well or you will PAY.

Hello everyone, hope you all had a good long weekend. We were away which meant cosleeping all night both nights in order to get any kind of sleep at all.

DD was back in her own cot last night.

She slept, happily panned out, for about 2.5 hours from bedtime at 7, and then woke and was unsettled for 2 afters after a feed. This is a real pattern for her and it's SO annoying - just as I want to go to bed she wakes and then won't go back down for hours, so I am crawling into bed at midnight. I had to resort to swaddling her arms again last night in order to settle her - she slept 12-3, woke for a feed, and only went back down again at 4 once her arms were swaddled again. She did last until morning at 7 like that but it can't really go on (any words of wisdom Elphaba?!).

So I guess I got 2 stretches of 3 hours or just under which is not awful. But I'm wondering will she ever sleep normally. She appears to have a bit of eczema on her eyelids now which seems to itch her a lot at night (not during the day though). I read a tip online about putting a thin dab of vaseline on the lids so I'll try that tonight.

The whole front sleeping thing is an unknown for me because DD1 never did this at all and still just sleeps on her side now. I also wouldn't be concerned if DD2 did decide she wanted to sleep on her front - she is just 6 months now - because she's more than able to make noise if she decided she wasn't happy there and also she's so unlikely to go into a deep sleep anyway! But no sign of it happening.

How's everyone else doing?

well, we have finished our 10 day trial with me evicted to the sofa. ds is definitely waking up less without me snoring away next to him and without the milk bar being open all night- 3.5 times a night, on average, instead of 4.7. so, the next step was to put the side back on the cot and move it a bit away from our bed so I can come back to our bed but stop co sleeping. the eventual goal is for him to share a room with dd or maybe sacrifice the lounge to him. I was anxious about this change as he is so used to feeding until almost asleep lying down in his cot next to me when he wakes at night. the 1st 2 wake ups of the 1st night were fine - I fed him in the chair until pretty much asleep and he settled fine in his cot. his 3rd wake up was at 300 and he didn't settle until 515. yawn. last night he was up 4 times but settled quickly after each feed, so that wouldn't have been too bad, but dd, who is normally a good sleeper, was up with a cough, moaning for daddy from 4-6 over the baby monitor. double yawn. fingers crossed for 3 wake ups or less from ds and dd is drugged up with calpol.

Greenstone Based upon a recommendation on here, I used a Swaddle Up with DS2, to move him on from having his arms pinned. Naturally, it worked in a week for whoever suggested it to me, to wean her baby off swaddling altogether. Since nothing is ever that straightforward with my DCs and sleep, it took a good couple of months, but we got there eventually. Apart from his startle reflex finally diminishing to non-waking levels, I think the thing that swung it was that the more reliant he got on his comfort toy, the more imperative his ability to manipulate it came to be to his sleep, until it outweighed his need to have his arms restrained. Once I felt that the restricted access to his toy dog was hindering his ability to sleep more than the freed arms might, I got rid of the Swaddle Up, and he hasn't needed it for a while now.

Not that he sleeps any better, mind. 'They sleep sooooo much better without a swaddle' has just been added to my long list of phrases about sleep that have let me down, sorely.

Thanks Elphaba. I have a feeling the Swaddle Up might be too hardcore for dd2. At the minute I just use a large muslin in a kind of triangle shape to pin her arms while I cuddle/jiggle her. I think she kind of likes the cuddly aspect of being wrapped.

But I'm going to try to go cold turkey on it. Last night was AWFUL - took her ages to settle for the night, then wakings every half hour or less until 11.30ish when DH actually went into her and coslept for about 2.5 hours. It was such a nice change to not have to deal with her actually -- except that DD1 (who normally sleeps really well now) appeared twice in that timeframe for a drink of water and a trip to the loo.
Anyway I dealt with dd2 from 2am and the swaddle didn't even get us 2 hours so I'm done with it now. DD2's problem is basically wind and if she hasn't gotten all of her burps up after a feed, the swaddle can't really help with that. Once she is 7 or 8 months I will perhaps look at night weaning between 11-5 or something to see if that helps. Or getting rid of dummy in case it's causing her to suck in excess air. And really push the comforter toy also. And do a moondance to the sleep gods.

Uff.

Greenstone, have you tried getting her to settle by herself in the cot? With DD2 we had a very rocky start - mostly due to wind I think but from about 3 months I spent a lot of time teaching her to fall asleep in the crib rather than my arms. It did involve her crying but I would lie next to her and stroke/pat her. This was with her on her side in the sleepyhead which I think really helped with the windiness - she was never comfortable on her back and would just scream the place down. If she's taking ages to settle in your arms then perhaps its worth a go? Other times she would fall asleep feeding and I'd be really relieved at not having to spend 30 minutes to an hour settling her!

I loved the swaddle up for DD2 but used it more or less from the start rather than as a transition IYSWIM. She did stay in one with the arms zipped off for a little while but not as long as I thought because we went away and it was too hot for anything but a nappy and a muslin draped over her! So weaning went fairly quickly in the end because I had no choice. Obviously it made no difference to sleep - what bloody does?!

Two rough nights here after three lovely, good ones in a row when they both slept at least from 12 till 5.30! The best one was 7.30 - 5.30!!! Thats a record I think! Then back to the usual with DD1 having nightmares/unable to sleep and DD2 teething I think. Also not helped by me having a vomiting bug on Monday night...

I have, yes, Chocolate. It was about a month ago and it went pretty well after a few days - a bit of crying but not too bad and I was really optimistic that it was a permanent change for the better. Sadly that hasn't turned out to be the case -- she's just regressed. I can sometimes get her back to sleep in the cot by vigorously patting her bum and putting her on her side, but she always wakes again about 15 minutes later. Argh. I suppose I should start again from scratch but it involves abandoning DD1 downstairs with the TV for quite a while and I feel bad about that (DD1 would invariably come in and interrupt if she played upstairs instead while I settled DD2).

However you've just given me an idea. Would it be madness to reinstate the Sleepyhead and put her on her side in it? She hasn't been in it since about 4.5 months but we could theoretically try it in the cot. (Hellooooo Rod #476!)

I think it is just one of those things she'll have to grow out of really. I guess there's still a chance she might start front sleeping of her own accord and it would be more comfy for her.

Sorry to hear you have a vomiting bug :(

When we were away on one of our misguided trips abroad I didn't take the sleepyhead with us due to lack of room (I took it on two previous trips!). DD2 was nearly 9 months and getting too big for it anyway. So for the first few days I put a rolled up towel in a U shape under the sheet - would that help maybe?

Regressions are DD1's specialist subject. She's still having them at 3...

update on ds' sleep - sleep improved when we stopped co sleeping. I moved to the sofa for 10 days and when I came back to our room, we put the side back on the cot and moved it further away from the bed. dh has also been settling him if he cant self settle at bedtime, rather than me feeding him to sleep. we went from 4-5 wake ups per night with the odd night of 6 or more wake ups, to 3-4 with the occasional night of 1 or 2. Sleep has improved again in the last 4 nights since we have been staying with pil. just 1 wake up on 3 nights and 2 on the 1st night, which has been amazing. not sure if it's mil's lavender spray, him being in his own room or it being much colder here. we r home tonight and i really hope it carries on. we will be making it as cold as possible, spraying lavender spray and moving the bed as far away from the cot as possible....and if that doesn't work we will be buying travel cot and banishing poor ds to our en suite as we have no where else to put him.

Hi Beccus, well done to your ds! That must feel brilliant, I hope it continues!

I've been wondering how everyone is getting on and hoping the silence was all good news! Elph I hope mornings are starting to get a bit of a routine now and not so hellish? The thought of everyone having to be out the door by 7, actually dressed and with everything required for a whole day brings me out in a cold sweat.

We're still our usual mixed bag but things are definitely better that they were a few months ago before I started sleep training DD2 and I usually get a couple of nights a week with no wake ups until 4 or 5. If its 4, then it involves a fair amount of tears and an hour of sitting next to the cot until its time for a feed at 5 - I've learnt the hard way not to feed any earlier than that as it just results in an even earlier wake the next morning!

At some point I'll have to try and drop that feed but I don't think she is ready to yet judging by the way she will not go to sleep until she's had it and then is out again like a light for at least another hour and usually two.

I was wondering how things were going for everyone just this morning! Was thinking maybe everyone has graduated from the thread, lol! DS2 is now 13mo and compared to the 4+ wake ups a night two months ago we are much better! Last night he did 8 - 4.30 then 4.45 until 6.45. To be honest, we don't get more than two wake ups a night now and usually only one brief one. I knew he would get better after he turned 12mo, it was the same story with my eldest too. I'm happy with the situation as it stands, getting enough sleep to enjoy life now anyway. Just struggling a bit with 2-1 nap transition at the minute so any tips gratefully received!

Oh yes that's a sod isn't it Needsweets. It took us a while of random bedtimes as she either slept too much in the day or not enough but that was difficult trying to coordinate with DD1. Think I tried to move nap time later and make sure she had a good snack or lunch before so she had a good sleep and then just had a mini nap in the afternoon if I thought she desperately needed it or otherwise just keep her going till bedtime. One nap is fine now, but think it was probably only 6 weeks ago that it started to feel sorted and DD2 is 16 months.

Glad to hear that nighttime sleep is much improved though!

I know this is breaking the rules but I need to tell someone who will understand how great this is..... At the ripe age of 13mo, DS2 slept through for the first time last night! 7.30 - 6am! He can do it! He isn't broken!

Congratulations Needsweets, yay!! Its not so much the rules, its just that they know and will generally punish you for it!

For example, after my post above, DD2 woke at 2.30 am and refused to go back to sleep for 2.5 hours. Then she woke again at 5.30, OH got up at 6 and DD1 decided 6.30 was time to wake up the entire house by yelling at the top of her voice.

All my own fault of course

hooray needsweets ! ds is still in our room and managed just 2 wake ups 1st night home, but he is right by the window now and it is too light for him, so we struggled to get him back to sleep after he woke at 430. amazing night last night - he slept 715-515. bought him into bed as again, light was an issue, and and he eventually dropped off and slept until 7 I think he sleeps better when he is cold. Left windows open and had him in a 1 tog bag....I was cold under the duvet, he is a funny boy!

Yay for needsweets' DS2!

Glad things are going fairly well for everyone. Nights are good, usually only one wake up, but the day starts any time from 5 and bedtimes are appalling as she is already massively overtired by the time we get home from the childminder.. This means she won't settle without me being there and it takes forever - usually she's not asleep until after 8 which is compounding the problem.

I have no idea what to do about this as I can't get away from work any earlier (well, I could but it would involve leaving home at 630 and DH needing to deal with getting her ready). She's cut her already short nap back to 45 minutes too which probably isn't helping. At the moment we are compensating with a 6pm bedtime at weekends but it's not ideal. I should probably start a new post, but any words of wisdom here?

We have got night weaning sorted at least, although like you chocolate still get the occasional demands at 2am!

Needsweets there was obviously something in the air last night - my DS slept from 7.50 pm till 6.10 am! (they're the same age aren't they). How is your DS2 doing with naps - mine is still screaming blue murder at naptime, my day consisted of 2 lots of 45 minutes sitting by the cot trying to tread the fine line between reassuring him and giving in and forcibly getting him to sleep with the milk bar. I can't even outsource his naps to nursery for the rest of the week as I usually would... he's gone down with chickenpox. DH and I are arguing about how we are going to share the hit to work.

We had our final sleep chat (much delayed) with Ann this morning, we are so glad we were able to get in touch with her and have her take us on... DS still has the odd awful night and there are still far more tears around every sleep than I would like, but he is much much better. Not sure if we have graduated the thread, perhaps I'll hang around for a bit whatever.

Think we're still firmly in 2-nap territory Needsweets so I can't help there... in fact DS should be moving up to the 'older babies' room at nursery but they won't move him up till he drops to a single (and hopefully longer) nap. I can see him sticking with his 2 x 30 min naps for some months to come, he will be a great hulking toddler soon terrorising the still-immobile babies in the baby room (actually he's a skinny little thing, I see solider-looking 6 month olds, so perhaps he'll just look strangely advanced in comparison).

I'm meant to be catching up on some work this evening to counteract the lost chickenpox days... better get back to it...

I paid for mentioning the good night... Up every 1.5hrs last night, he hasn't done that in months! I put it down to teething, he had ibuprofen the night before and nothing last night. We have 1 and a half molars, so that is surely the culprit. He has always been a crap teether.

Fratercula we have one nap of 1.5hrs from 10.30 until 12. I rock him until sleepy then he happily goes into his cot with no crying, he even sits up sometimes then lays himself back down. He then will usually have 40 mins in the car around 3ish as he falls asleep on the school run and I leave him in his seat. If he doesn't then we skip that nap and do very early bedtime. He seems to do fine either way. Don't think he is ready for just one every day yet though. I think do what you have to in order to get a nap in as they don't nap forever, its the night sleeping habits that are important long term.

Good morning, it's been a while, how's everyone doing? I'm zombified after yet another shit night. dd2 had been doing pretty okay - after my bedtime, doing one 3.5-4 hr stretch and usually another 2.5-3 hr stretch until morning, and I was actually approaching cheerfulness about the whole thing.

Now she's being awful again. She had her 3rd set of jabs (late) last week and immediately developed a streaming cold and a temperature. Temp gone and daytime form better but cold is still there with a vengeance. I know that this is why nights have been so bad lately but she is doing wake-ups all evening and all night. Argh! I had fallen into the trap of thinking that it would all get better slowly and surely from here on in.

Dh is taking some time off next month and maybe we will try gradual retreat and/or night weaning within a certain timeframe.

Anyway, hope everyone else is doing better - how are all the committed non-sleepers - Elphaba? Penguins?

ds had got down to 2 wake uos a night, which was amazing! 9 month sleep regression had hit, though, and he has gone back to more like 3 wake ups and some nasty stints of being awake for a couple of hours at a time. still, no regression is as bad as the 4 month though, right (hopeful)

I hope that all the babies go peacefully to the land of nod every night hence the silence here :)

Fat chance in this house!

10.5 months and no sign of it getting better. She used to be able to settle herself after a night feed. Now cannot do this anymore so we have to rock her. Situation is fast approaching Something Must be Done for the millionth time

Such a delightful baby by day but so so needy and wakeful at night.
anyone else?

Can I join ????Ds almost 10mo was a great sleeper from around 3mo to 4mo. Then he hit the sleep regression and it's been a sleepless blur since. ????He doesn't nap in the day apart from the odd 10 minutes here and there and can be up for hours at night. The other night he woke up at 2 am and that was it, he was up for the day. ????I was on a previous thread but it vanished. ????Don't know how to get through it, I'm so bloody exhausted.

I don't know what the question marks are about

I'll join up too, DD is 6mo, never slept through the night, I can count on my fingers the number of times she's ever slept more than 3.5 hours in one go. A "normal" night has her wake every hour and a half. Exhausted doesn't even begin to describe it and if one more person tells me that babies aren't designed to "sleep through the night" I might throttle them...!