Misery Loves Company...nope. Still not sleeping.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Long-term sleep deprivation getting you down?

Join us here for and plenty of sympathy.

Ride the mo-fo out or something must be done - the choice is yours.

And remember the First Rule of Sleep Club - do not mention that things are going well or you will PAY.

ejecoms, ann recommend cara at sleepies - this os her website : www.sleepies.ie. she had a 2 week wait which is pretty good. I am also struggling with ncss. ds unlatches himself most times, but he still feeds to almost being asleep (just awake enough to unlatch and roll over), so I think he still has a big sleep/boob association. I noticed quite a bit of an improvement initially, but progress is v slow now. ds managed 4 hrs straight after bedtime last night but was then up hourly. I don't understand it. I can hear him waking on the monitor early in the evening and then settling himself back to sleep, but maybe as soon as I come to bed, he thinks he'd rather have a night cap than just settle himself. we r going away next month and wont be able to cosleep for those 4 nights. I am dreading having to get out of bed to settle him, but it will be interesting to see how he goes on his own. we may get really crazy and put him in with his 2 yr old big sister....

chocolate that's very grim of your dds to tag team like that. How old is your dd1 again? Hope last night was better?

I do think dd2 must be growth spurting, she seems much hungrier for boob and is having really long bedtime and nap time feeds - normally she is a quick feeder. And yes I am just going to get over the dummy thing because it does really help, especially for cot naps.

Bad form to crow about a good night but last night was a good'un. Bed at 8, woke her at 10.30 getting dh's kindle () and big feed then, then her next wake was 3! She got up loads of wind after that feed - always a good sign- and then the next we heard of her was at 7.15

!!

In fact dh went to the loo and came out to find dd1 crouched gollum-like over dd2 in the cot giving her kisses. Uh oh. Not good that she can climb in.

Dd us waking much earlier these days, the hour change and bright mornings but she is dh's issue and he has bribed her to stay in her room and play if it's too early. Amazingly she seems to be mostly doing this.

Really hope everyone had a decent night.

Well done to your DD2 Greenstone that's brilliant! Did you also manage to sleep or did you lie there awake wondering what the hell was going on and waiting for her to wake up?!

DD1 is 3. She was better for most of last year with maybe 1 - 2 wake ups a week but she's regressed recently - think its things like nightmares/scared of the dark and just waking up and being unable to go back off.

Thankfully a better night last night, they still tag teamed but not until 4am so I got a bit of sleep in beforehand. Still struggling with getting DD2 to go back off at that time without milk though even though I sat rubbing her back and holding her hand for 45 minutes. She was lying down and I kept thinking she was going to go but as soon as I so much as twitched she would sit bolt upright again. So gave in and fed at 4.45 so I could go back to bed.

Yes I think we are also going to be struggling with light mornings soon. I forgot to close the bathroom door last night so DD1 woke at 6.45 as the light streams in her bedroom from the bathroom window. She does have blackout curtains but they're a bit shit and let light around and through. I thought about getting velcro ones last year, at least for her east facing window but never got round to it!

Not managed with the stay in room and play - what does your DH do?! DD1 usually wakes up shouting for breakfast although I always try and get her to come into bed for a cuddle first so I can come round. OH is gone by 6.30 most days so its just me and the kids in the morning.

Amazingly I did sleep. I think I got two lots of 3.5 hours which is unheard of.
This is the first night ever that DD2 has only had 2 wake-ups.

DD1's toys have only recently migrated to her room from downstairs so it's kind of still a novelty for her to have them there in her room. DH started bribing DD1 to tidy her toys up properly each evening and she gets a 20c coin for doing so - then we asked her to stay in her room and play if she wakes up early. I think in her head the 20c bribe is part of that! She still needs to be put on the loo but will then go back to her bedroom (and sing loudly).

I'm not convinced it will last but hey! Definitely need to black out her curtains too as we live in the west of Ireland and it hardly gets dark at all here in high summer.

Thanks Beccus - I have sent her an email and will chat with her tomorrow.

will be interesting to hear how u get on ejecoms. well, on night 2 of evicting myself to the sofa, ds sttn! 5 hrs 8 mins . really hope this wasn't just a coincidence and he might be learning to settle himself back off to sleep without my help

Back at work. My life is SHIT.

Oh no Sorry to hear it's so hard going.

How is ds getting on on nursery?

for Elph and hope you can get some sort of lie in this weekend

DH has been away for 9 days on business and DD has settled into a relatively good pattern of going to bed at about 7.30 and only waking up 3 times at about 10pm, 1am and 4am for most of this week. I'm curious whether this changes after he gets back on Sunday!

They're both champs at nursery. DS2 won't nap more than half an hour in the morning or so because he's far too interested in everything so he has a stupid-o'clock nap in the car at 5pm on the way home, but it does mean we get to spend a bit of time with both of them in the evening as he's up a bit longer.

Getting out in the morning is just miserable. I have to hit the ground running at 6am after a very broken night of sleep to get out by 7am. Stuff two, usually screaming, boys into clothes with DH, try and get coffee and cereal into myself one-handed while jiggling fussy baby and telling wailing two year old no, I'm sorry I can't cuddle you I have to keep going, then somewhere in there get showered and dressed myself. I'm shaking and stressed and upset when I leave. It's just shit.

Elph (possibly for breakfast? Easier to eat one handed than cereal!). That sounds like hard work, especially on no sleep. Is work itself ok (apart from the tiredness, of course?) what is it with babies and not wanting clothes? Also spend a fair chunk of morning chasing a semi clad child around with accompanying screaming.

Fingers crossed for you it gets easier as stops being new and gets to be routine.

good lord, elph, that sounds absolutely grim

Blimey Elph that sounds horrendous. It would be bad enough even with sleep. But without?! I swear that CIA torture experts have nothing on small children...

No advice I'm afraid, I'm still useless at making it out of the house on time with my two without a shitload of drama and a need for lots of deep breaths and chocolate. But much sympathy and . Or in fact a large .

To be honest, I'd probably end up putting them both and myself to bed dressed

Oh, it's even better tomorrow. DH is working away so, after putting them to bed solo tonight, then probably co sleeping with both of them at some point over night, I'll have to get them dressed and ready and out of the house all by myself and drop them at nursery by 7:30. Where they will both scream because they all have to go into the one room when it first opens which completely discombobulates them, plus they hate it when I drop them off as they're used to DH, and hate to see me walk out of the door, especially DS2. Then work a full day.

Somebody put me out of my exhausted misery, please. A couple of million quid is all I ask so I never have to work again and I can pay for all the help I need...

Is it actually illegal to give children valium...?

Good luck....and make sure you have adequate supplies of chocolate and caffeine and gin. For breakfast

Ridiculously tough elphaba. It does feel like this must surely be one of the toughest times in your life (sure everyone's healthy but chronic sleep deprivation is serious) so the world should accordingly give you a break and let you just opt out of having to be a functional adult until it passes.

Last time I posted dd had done a good night. Not an inkling of a repeat since. I'm in her bedroom all evening. It's usually wind . This week she also mastered rolling on to tummy and sitting up properly for decent stretches..
Oh and she's teething like fuck, and has started childcare.
I too hate the get them out of the door rush - hate it!

I have a question , how the actual.fuck does one 'put' a baby to sleep on their tummy? I really think this would improve matters but how does it happen? ! Tried earlier and she just went stiff and pushed up and cried.

Greenstone, that's always been the way with my two. A little ray of hope, just to tease you...then straight back into hardcore all night wakings...

Last night it was DD2's turn. She woke at 1am, finally went back off sometime around 3.30 then woke again at 5, settled at 5.30. OH up at 6, DD1 up at 6.10. Thankfully she was happy to come into my bed for snuggles and we dozed for a bit longer. I'm sure there must be a tooth on its way, bloody hurry up already would you?! Calpol made zero difference to DD2, just had to wait it out and eventually we both fell asleep with my arm in the cot so I woke a bit later with no feeling in that arm!

I've never "put" my two to sleep on their tummies, they both did it themselves once they could roll. DD2 I used to put down on her side from about 8/9 weeks as she would not (and never has) sleep on her back. But I wedged her with a towel so she couldn't roll onto tummy.

She did the tummy bit by herself once she could turn over at about 4/5 months. Now she sleeps on her front with bum in the air and DD1 flings herself about all over the bed and occasionally has to be rescued from being stuck sideways across the bed and wedged between the guards!

I don't think putting down on tummy is recommended - the HV even said I should turn DD2 onto her back once she was asleep (and this was at 8 months). I just raised an eyebrow and when she saw how mobile she was a bit later on she said, oh, I can see that would be difficult! I've heard other advice that if they turn themselves that way, its fine. Or if you know they can push up and roll, its OK. I think its mostly a judgement call and keep a close eye. I do have a video monitor this time which has been brilliant.

Elph, are you just about in one piece? Sending and your way....

god elph. I hope the hospital is full of chocolate today. ok, so we r on night 6 of my eviction to the sofa in the lounge. we have had 3 nights of 5 wake ups, one night with 3 and 2 nights with 2. 2 is amazingly good and 3 is pretty good, too. am super stoked as last night ds stirred and self settled 3 times. which is what I think he needs to crack to get rid of the night wakings. he will probably be up 5 times again tonight

Yes, I am in one piece Chocolate. Thank you for your sympathy. DH not away for another couple of weeks thank fuck. The past 24 hours have nearly broken me. We're still working with Ann and we are making inch-wise progress still, but DS2 is no more a sleeper than DS1 was. I think it's a bit like trying to push him to walk early. Most of it is only going to happen when he's ready for it. Not when I have to function at work

See, my theory on front sleeping is thus: it's discouraged because, apart from them possibly falling asleep on their faces (which I really don't think they're going to do at eight months) I think the theory is is that it puts babies into long deep phases of sleep which is unnatural for their ages. What do our babies not do? Go into long deep phases of sleep. Ever. In any position. Ergo, I really don't think front sleeping is something those of us with non-sleepers have to worry about.

Greenstone I put both of mine down on their sides as well from 6-7mo or so and they then put themselves on their fronts. DS1 was a bum-in-the-air sleeper for a while as well. What is with that?

Once when we were staying with friends (funnily enough in Australia Elph!) I woke to find OH sleeping across the bottom of the bed in classic baby bum-in-the-air pose. He was so deeply asleep it took me about 10 minutes to wake him and all he could say was "comfortable". He has no recollection of this ever happening and its the only time in the too many years that we have been together that he has slept like that.

Glad to hear you have survived Elph and that DS2 is making some progress. Agree with you re front-sleeping - I'm not sure I'd actually put them to sleep on their front, but I haven't worried once they have put themselves there.

DD2 is actually very capable of long stretches now. Sadly she only ever chooses to do them on nights when DD1 wakes up

That's blackmail material for your OH, Chocolate You should have got photos.

Hi, I'm new to this thread. Just wondered who is 'Ann' that some of you have been using? My 7 1/2 month old DS is a terrible sleeper and I'm starting to get to the end of my tether with DH away nights during the week... 3 hours of crying last night and no amount of shush-patting (ARgh) would work and he wouldn't even sleep when I brought him into my bed..

This is Ann, EuansMum but she has a heck of a waiting list, unfortunately!

Happy bank holiday everyone, hope you are all having a good long weekend with some sleep.

My DD aLso became a front sleeper once she could roll and I certainly wasn't going to risk waking her by rolling her back! She was a fairly late roller, not until 6 months, so wasn't too concerned. Think there may be something in your deep sleep theory Elph as we did see a bit of an improvement in her sleep from atrocious to horrible then. I think I read somewhere that the 'bum in the air' pose relieves pressure on the bladder - no idea if this is true though!

Have settled into a nice routine here of an hour of whinging around 3 until 4, then up by 6 obviously still tired but refusing to go back to the cot and snoozing on me instead. So she is well rested but I'm not. We have visitors this weekend so no co-sleeping option. She has got a molar in the last week and another is almost through so am guessing that hasn't helped. Very frustrating though as has coincided with a really stressful period at work.

Now we have more or less night weaned I would really like DH do deal with some night wakings but DD just screams with him and his main suggestion is too tuck her up between us in bed despite the fact that he is the world's most fidgety sleeper.