the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

detetionG-naps sound good improvement,i think if theyre napping on laps it can only be good because it makes us sit and do nothing for a bit!

moljam - wow!! what a difference!! bet you feel like a new woman

sashasmama - hi (hope you're having a better night). What is it with these perfect sleepers that makes them change eh?
Could your DD be having a growth spurt/teething? - Will she take water when she wakes? I rule out hunger with DS by giving him his tea at 4 then letting him snack on bits from our plates at 5.30ish followed by a bf (then bath, story, bf to sleep)

Dream first children seem to be the norm then So going for a third could produce a good sleeper again or one that's 10x worse eeek!(decisions,decisions...)
DS didn't go down too badly last night. He's still full of cold & now has temp so I bf/snuggled him for a bit - though don't think he's actually getting much) He filled his nappy at midnight & screamed to be changed and wouldn't settle afterwards (he was cold too - our boiler's broken )so was back in with the mummy dummy to sleep. He only woke once around 3ish then 6.45 to get up - so not bad, all things considered

DetentionG - I'd keep the sleeping on the lap thing too so you get the benfit!

Sweetkitty - I find I still bf for comfort at night but not during the day (it's hard)

Best go - DS just woke from his nap (a whole hour!!) good luck with the sleep logs all who are doing them

iris,youre night sounds quite good too,especially as your lo is poorly,poor baby!
i have 3 children my dd and ds1 slept awfully and had trouble going to sleep till they were 4&5 or 5&6(?)so when ds2 was born i was dreading the sleepless nights but even as newborn he only woke every 4 hours!textbook baby!until he reached 7 months!!!!!!!!again though textbook baby as im reading more and more thats its common at that age as its when separation anxiety kicks in!
this morning nap lasted 2 whole hours and i had to wake him!yes read again I WOKE HIM UP!!to go to babygroup,now he is having ANOTHER nap(in pushchair this time as i have to go out to get older babies from school soon) that has so far lasted nearly an hour!im too excited for words,am i making most of it and napping-no!lets see what tonight brings!

Another night last night similar to the one before, went down at 7.30pm BF to sleep but "pull off" before boob fell out her mouth. 11pm woke up tried to rub back etc but couldn't be bothered and wanted to go to bed myself so gave her a quick BF but again did the "pull off" that was her until 5.20am this morning then up at 7ish when we had a nice sleepy BF so all in all not too bad. I do think she is getting better but it's such a slow process isn't it.

Iris - I've gone down to 1-2 BF's during the day too. DS sounds like he is getting better too even though he's ill. DD2 still has the cold and a cough, she sneezes and her face explodes bless her.

sashasmama - welcome to the thread

moljam - your night sounds good fingers crossed for you

I was feeling really down today but your positive thread moljam really cheered me up. I had a crp night. Even when ds was sleeping I wasn't. I feel like sht today - sore throat, headache - so perhaps ds is not feeling well either.

Welcome sashasmama

Now the initial pleasure from reading about your success moljam has past I feel so down again. I wish there was some way I could comfort my lo when he is tired. We were at the baby and toddler group and he was making the other babies cry. Everyone elses babies just seem to go to sleep with a cuddle, rock, hand held, whereas mine needs a long 'swing' in the car seat (only daddy can do that), or the hoover (not practical when you are out and about). When he is really upset he will go to sleep after being bf but it is the 'really upset' bit that gets me down.

Sorry to be so negative. I find it hard to talk to other people about what a failure of a mother I feel but it is easier to write it down.

oh Lori, I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. You're not a failure though! Far from it - you're trying to do the best for your son (against the challenging backdrop of sleep deprivation)and that alone makes you a lovely, caring mum. Chin up honey. It is only a phase and it will pass. Have you re-read the book lately for a pick-me-up. Works for me (((hug)))

ps - top tip No2 for making yourself feel more human (No.1 being the slap & heels ) New undies . Just got back from a trip to M&S and am now the pround owner of a sexy little bright red bra & knicks set (feel better just looking at them never mind putting them on, but still have to work out when DH is going to get to see them !!!.... must talk to DS.....)

After finally reading the book and doing the first set of logs i want to start doing the ncss. it was a while since i posted on here so a brief overview of my situation:

ds 7 weeks
only falls asleep mainly by bf but also in car, on me and ALWAYS woke on attempted transfer to moses basket so ended up co-sleeping and letting her sleep on me in days.

I want to make sure i have read it right what i need to do. Am i right in thinking that its this:

feed her normally but before she falls asleep or when is looking sleepy take her off and put in moses basket (mb) and also if she is sleepy when not feeding put her down.

from doing logs have realised she has no bedtime routine, bath her every night about 7 and take her to bed about 10 or 11 when im ready even though she will have been asleep on me.

do i pick a time to call bedtime, say 8 clock, what if she not tired then? and what if she wants to be awake and is ready to play in night?

would it be better off getting her down in a cot or is that too early - she is nearly 12 pounds and is quickly outgrowing moses basket - i dont want to get her settled in moses basket only to have to start all over again when moving her to a cot. i woould have thiught cot better cause moses is creaky and she sleeps well on a normal matress bed rather than a thin little piece of foam in moses.

hope this all makes sense - typing one handed with baby in other.

help please!!!!!
tried to start it tonight but have just got confused. i took her off breast when looking dozey and eyes half asleep but she awakes and cries. i have then picked her up til she calmed and then put her down again but she cries almost before she hits the moses basket. i have waited a few secs to see if she will settle then picked her up and done it all over and sometimes have given her the breast again as this calms her. She seems to be crying too much - am i doing it wrong??????????

Not doing it wrong as far as I can see but try bf & shushing then unlatching her & holding her/shushing until she seems settled before putting her down then continue the shushing for a bit with your hand still on her. HTH

I'd be inclined to think she just needs a bit more settling & reassurance off the breast before you put her down - or maybe she was just too awake still (and not used to being put down awake yet)

pantley says that if you take her off and she cries, put her back on. you can keep doing that off and on for as long as necessary. i did it with dd and we co-sleep. now she just rolls over and snores away.

at 7 wks take her off and before she can try, shush loudly and rock her quite strongly. if it works, good. if not don't sweat, put her back on. At 7 wks a baby is still establishing your milk supply. any attempt to help her to sleep thru isn't worth it. it goes against the needs of bf at this point. I think Pantley suggests waiting till after 4 months to start a sleep routine.

on the bright side, you are ahead of yourself! right now, it may be better to read {http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780141007915,00.html\dr Harvey Karp} on the 4th trimester.

dr Harvey Karp

Hello everyone and thanks for the welcome messages. Arghhh naps!! My dd goes to the childminder while i am at work and she sleeps like an angel there, up to 3 hours, sometimes 4 in the mornings, and another hour in the afternoon... with me at the weekends... NEVER MORE THAN HALF AN HOUR! i have tried everything including bringing the same bedsheets and pillows home, replicating the exact pre-nap scenario, same fan setting, etc... to no avail... there really is something to be said about sleep association. she associates day naps with that house, and nighttime sleep with our house... sigh... and so i can also attest to the fact that good daytime naps actually contribute to better nighttime sleep, it's illogical but true! she sleeps terribly at the weekends cos she can't nap in the daytime...

on a more positive note... i think after several weeks i am hopefully close to a breakthrough. last night she woke briefly a few times but i managed to get her back to sleep without any water or milk... and i finally fed her at 5.30... fingers and toes crossed!!!!

i am so glad i found people who want to listen to this stuff.. my colleagues are all single girls and i don't want to bore them to tears with my baby talk!

right it must be about 6 in the evening in blighty so good luck all you schleepy mummies... i better get back to work... will be visiting again soon.

sorry just one more thing before i go (procrastinating cos i have a boring workday...) for those of us who are shushing and rocking: i remember reading soewhere that the intensity and volume has to be proportionate to the level of baby's hysteria... as in, make sure your shushing is LOUD ENOUGH for her to hear above her yelling, so when she is really screaming, i find myself shushing the whole neighbourhood to sleep, but after a while she will hear it and calm down, then i quieten, slow my patting to half speed, and finally stop patting. i also found pantley's suggestion to keep holding her after placing her in the cot to be useful... kills my back though!

and to all you bf mummies, my deepest respect, keep it up! i stopped after 4 months. when i was bf-ing, i had a nasty cold and was practically spraying my baby with germs, and she never got it. now that she is on formula, i find she catches colds easier... i think cos she isn't getting the antibodies from me anymore... do you find that?

Slept for 3-3.5 hrs at a time last night....oh yes, i am LOVING it.

at all these splendid success stories. But very for you all as well . We just had the WORST night - in defence I have now put on a full face of slap, blow dried my hair and may even put on some proper shoes in a moment (am wearing clothes already between perfect hair and shabby slippers!). I am pretty sure DS has a degree of wheat intolerance. For the first time in 2 weeks I let him have some bread yesterday, dipped in homemade veg soup. And he has been up all night writhing, arching, crying, farting.... No more wheat products for us for a while. I hate weaning!

Aw Bikebug...here's to a better night tonight then!

thanks DG - this is the first day of the rest of our sleepy lives

Hayles78 - I am soooo sorry - I read that your LO was 7months !! Somethingsdrooling's post says it all really. I'd give yourself a break & go with the demand bf for the mo - it does take a while for your supply to settle and there are the growth spurts which will make her very hungry

DetentionG - ooooh for last night - grab that make up bag now!!!!

Bikebug - I really sympathise - DS has only just started to tolerate organic white wheat products (he couldn't have anything with wheat for months - and as bf neither could I!) He also still can't have dairy, tomato (a biggie found by accident - I was eating tons of them), all berries (including dried fruit & grapes)pepper, orange and banana as they give him either really bad tummy ache/ explosive nappies or he rakes his skin off ! - food is a nightmare in this house. BTW you're doing better than me - I'm still in scabby sweatshirt & sticky up hair mode off to preen & hook my eyebags behind my ears

i wrote nice long message and lost it!
harvey karp sounds interesting,is it more for younger babies though?my lo is 11 months.
bikebug,poor you and por lo,hope it turns out not to be intolerance,until recently they thought my lo had intolerance of dairy or wheat and it was so hard!like you said weaning hard enough anyway!hope hes well soon!
iris,i am in slobby mode,wearing dh huge warm jumper,dirty jeans and ballet shoes!but i am treating myself to haircut later,dh is looking after children!i'll probably fall asleep in chair!
well were still on a roll!-ds went down at 7pm awake(first time gone awake!)and to my suprise went straight to sleep!woke twice but had sip of water and back to sleep!then up at 5am for milk.now hes napping!he really seems to like being in cot!im putting him for naps in bed .im missing cosleeping and its only been 2 nights without him!but im sleeping!

saschamama,could you ask childminder to have your lo over night!lol!have you watched your childminder put her down to sleep,maybe its worth watching,there must be something!why are they always better for others!my older 2 dont eat except for at other peoples houses!ive nicked recipes,copied allsorts still doesnt work!

Am feeling bit better today (thanks for your kind words iris66), although lo had another not so good night. Found a fab article on kellymom.com about 4mnth olds who stop sleeping well at night. Felt really reassured that it is not just me but in fact a recognised thing. Hope the phase does not last long. Last night ds was on the 2 hourly wake ups then at 2am decided that he wanted a chat. Not just to himself but to me!! In the end I led him in bed next to me, put a reassuring hand near him and we both went back to sleep (after 2 1/2 hours that is!!!) I woke in a panic and carefully put him back in his carry cot (my bed is not set up for co-sleeping and I am a tad paranoid) He slept till 7.15am

Hayles78 - I decided to try and sort daytime naps out to help my lo learn about falling asleep by himself and to help with night time sleep. Here is some advice I was given (can't guarantee that it will all work as my lo is still a nightmare, but not as bad!)

• really watch your lo - they will tell you when they are ready for a nap (mine rubs his eyes and yawns).

• my lo has his first nap after being awake for an hour or so after that he is awake for about 2 hours between naps

• as soon as i see my lo doing the sleepy signs I sing a sleepy song and carry him up to his bed. I shut the curtains, put on his sleepy CD and at the moment white noise, and stay with him till he falls asleep. I rock him, shush him, pat him etc aswell

• I try and withdrawl the things I do to help him get to the sleepy state as his eyes start to close.

• he does not go down for a nap after about 5pm so by about 6pm is shattered so I start the bedtime routine. (bath, feed (with sleepy CD on in a darkened room) then bed). Night times used to be no problems (one or two wakeups) but since he was 4 months it is a nightmare.

The most important thing I was told was to really watch and learn from your lo. I found this hard to believe until I did it but it really is true.

Sleepy thoughts to you all....

lori glad youre feeling bit better.sorry to hear youre night wasnt good.

moljam & Iris, thanks for the fellow-feeling! My mum and my fil both have some wheat intolerance (though neither is coeliac, thankfully), so poor DS looks rather fated to have something similar . Bloody weaning, grrrrr.

Sleep deprivation got us into trouble today - I had a return-to-work meeting, had to take DS as have no babysitters. I was knackered and not watching him properly (trying to be mrs. professional in meeting...), he was knackered and wobbley. And he fell into a table leg, a nice hard metal one, and cut his mouth. He seems OK, though he screamed pretty well at the time, and is feeding happily, but leaving little blood traces on food and in drinks. Thankfully he has no teeth to knock out yet! He slept in the car on the way there, the way back, and had a morning nap too. I, on the other hand, may soon start hallucinating....