the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

Moljam - WOW What are you doing??? I hope you slept too!!!

Moljam! .

You probably just saved my copy of the book from the recycling sack....

If you do remember everything you did yesterday please write it down.

(That's SO brilliant for you though, well done!)

Hiya girlies
Wow I feel as though I've not been on for ages, so much news!
Firstly I've not went over to the dark side (CC) yet!!! Although I do have a new focus of like you Iris stopping BF through the night. I've decided I need to start drinking alcohol again, its this clean lifestyle that is making me tired, cranky, anxious! So onwards and upwards!
Moljam wow wheeeee! How fabulous??? I cannot believe it would happen so quickly but go girl.
Glads the wee one's cold has lifted Difers, that should make a bit of a difference. Its so horrible when they're not well too just make sure you don't catch it!
As for Manuka, you sound like you need to give yourself a break. If you're feeling really bad about stuff you could maybe go and talk to a counsellor or therapist. You actually gave me a lot to think about too so thankyou for your comments too.
Anyhow DD fast asleep in cot for nap (its been over 40 mins), DP is back in the big bed which is good for cuddles and support, I think teamwork is the way ahead and I'm feeling marginally less knackered. Fingers crossed maybe Moljam's miracle will spread.

Hello, can I join in? DS is 7 months and with a totally erratic sleep pattern. Some nights can be great, but others, and with increasing frequency, are crap (although I hope you wont all feel I'm fussing over nothing as I know many of you have it worse than me). but take last night as an example:
Goes down at 8pm.
Wakes at 3am settles back with cuddle and finger-suck.
Wakes at 4am settles back with cuddle and finger-suck.
Wakes at 5am I give bottle, change nappy, cuddle and finger-suck, goes back to sleep at 6am until 8am.

The thing is he won't go to sleep without sucking my finger. This is what I did when I stopped bf as previously I always bf to sleep. He hardly ever goes to sleep without it, even for daytime naps. Consequently, he won't go to bed for DH. See this lovely rod? I made it for my own back...

Have just ordered NCSS and Baby Whisperer, and am sitting here with a lovey in my bra

fluffyanimal,sounds like your having fun same as rest of us!
LO slept for 2 hours in bed for morning nap,did i nap too,no!my eldest 2 (6 and 5)are off school so no naps for this mummy!but i was a bit naughty,when it got to 3pm i had friends over so didnt even try to put him down to nap,there were 4 lively children running round so dont think it would have worked but does that mean hes unlikely to sleep so well tonight!?i had 1 nights sleep,i shouldnt be so greedy and expect more!
momomama,its not only happened quickly,its happened before reading more than half book!!!!!!!!!!

fluffyanimal - welcome - hope you benefit from all the wonderful support here.

whinge alert ignore if you're feeling fragile....sorry to moan but I'm on my knees. Crappy night last night but for some unknown reason I was like a woman possessed & decided to go on a cleaning spree from 6 am - trying to get every job known to woman done in record time (on the plus side my house is now pretty sparkling & all the washing is done). Ds has had 2 hour long naps (so good) & went down at 7.30 but has been up 3 times already and I just feel so worn out now from being punched/elbowed in the throat, bitten, pinched and kicked (oh is he boistrous!)and that's only playing during the day. I know I've got a night of kick boxing and nipple biting to come. I just want to cry.
sorry to be such a moaner but just needed to get it out - why is there not "no cry and very quick to sleep" solution?!!!!
will probably be better tomorrow - my mum has been having a go "rod for own back" etc etc & bumped into friends this afternoon who were when I told them DH in spare room because DS in cosleeping which really didn't help........feel pants mother/wife...

am taking myself off to bed - hope everyone has a better night.

sorry about that....

DH had DS all last night for the first time & I've no idea how he slept (or not - suspect they dozed in front of the TV) but I actually had a full night's sleep!!!

I feel so much better today (though a tad guilty for some daft reason) & DS is happy & bouncy and had a mega bf at 7 when DH brought him in (thought I was going to explode - I'd forgotten what that was like ) It'll be interesting to see how he naps today (and to find out if he actually went in his cot!)
Hope you all had good nights (there's a lot to be said about giving yourself a break I think (as per the book). off to make brekkie

Iris, well done. I'm going to suggest this to DP as a way of moving forward. I've started doing a 'dream feed' of formula at around 11ish or whenever dd wakes up and she's taken it fine much to my surprise. She slept a bit longer following this but I wakened exactly 3 hours after she had been sleeping and couldn't go back to sleep myself - sods law!
I am now on a mission though and nothing is going to stop me!
As for your domestic godessness - wow! DP actually asked me if we'd been burgled house is such a state.

Iris, Well done, I might also suggest that to DH as a way forward too...!!!!

The way to deal with the partner in another room scenario is to tell people that hubby sleeps in another room and when that concerned 'oh you must never have sex and your marriage is clearly over' look fleets across their face, say breezily, "We have loads of sex though" (even if not true. It always works!!!

Discussed evening off with hubby, he said "oh god" it may be a no no.

momomama - here have an ice cold glass of chardonnay (it's been sitting in my fridge for an unknown length of time - but am sure it's drinkable!)

Iris - Congrats on getting a good sleep last night! Wanna come and start on my house next? I'm trying to do the FlyLady thing, but rather unsuccessfully as yet. I dread to think what state the place would be in if I was as sleep deprived as most of you, the fact that you can still clean at all amazes me.

My book arrived yesterday!!!

On Thursday night I decided to let her totally dictate sleep & bedtime, to see what time she would naturally want to go to bed if left to her own devices (that and pure laziness as I couldn't face another evening of fighting to get her to go down). She had a brief nap on her beanbag chair at around 7ish, then spent the evening playing with her toys on the floor, then went to sleep properly at 11pm. There was no fighting/crying/whingeing, and I thought that meant I would just have to go with an 11pm bedtime from now on to fit in with her body clock. She slept til 9.30am. I figured with the clocks about to go back that wasn't at all bad (and I know so many of you would give your right arm for that, I'm not complaining at all, honest), as that'd mean she'd be in bed by 10, and up by 8.30. I started reading the book as soon as it arrived and decided to put into practice the advice about making bedtime earlier (I decided to go with the option of just doing bedtime at the time I want it to be, regardless of how much earlier than normal that is - rather than the making it earlier by 15 minutes every few days option). I began her bedtime routine at 8.45 (as post-clock-change I'd like her to go to bed around 8ish) and put her down awake at 9.15. To my surprise she went to sleep by herself without a tear. I was sure she'd treat it as a nap and wake up shortly afterwards, so I had a bottle ready and waiting to dash in before she had a chance to fully awaken and soothe her back to sleep. She slept til 8.40am without stirring! She's napping on the sofa now (since 11am). I'm going to read some more of the book now!

Well done Iris!

I must admit that the way I field questions now is to lie through my teeth. eg.
Q. "How's she sleeping?" A. fine thanks!
Q. "How's she getting on with solids?" A. "fine thanks!"

Nothing new to report here. I think the one time DD slept through the half hour must have been a blip. Still no sleep stretch longer than 2.5hrs.

I really don't mind b/f her to sleep, I think it's a lovely, natural way and it's a real shame that we think of it as a 'trap' and 'making a rod...' etc. DD always goes to sleep easily and happily. It's getting her to stay there that's the problem.

I know that Current Thinking says that babies from 6 months are 'capable' of soothing themselves to sleep and of sleeping for 12 hours. Well, I'm 'capable' of doing back-flips but I'm buggered if I'm going to try. It'd take more than 6 months that's for sure.

In a Mum & Baby changing room yesterday we saw a baby lying flat on it's back with a bottle stuck in it's mouth. The mother didn't bother to even hold her baby when she fed him. I can't understand why she didn't just park him in a cot and feed him intravenously. Save on the washing up.

I bet that baby soothes himself to sleep every night though, and doesn't dare to wake before he's supposed to. Is this was Currrent Thinking is leading people to do?

On the other hand, I bet that baby never looks at his mum like dd looks at me. Sometimes when our eyes meet and I smile at her I can almost see the good, happy feeling surge through her little body and spill out of her eyes. She makes a little gurgle and holds out her arms to me. I don't think I'd exchange that for a good night's sleep.

Anyway (clambering clumsily off her high horse , as my dd seems to be one of the worse sleepers on this thread, it's a good job I'm feeling positive!

I'm SO glad that some of you have seen such improvement.

Hello, I am new to MN and am just finding my feet with the threads.

I have just ordered NCSS and Baby Whisp solves all your problems (does she mention how to get the housework done too?)

DS1 is 3 and I did baby whisperer PUPD from him being 8 weeks, worked like a charm and he slept through from 9 weeks 7-7 hoorah. DS2 is 5 months was terribly poorly from day 1, severely jaundiced and then reflux. He sleeps on me in the day, I am his bed and then at night he sleeps in his cotbed but frequent wakings and needing/wanting water (not milk) has finally taken its toll on me and DH.

He is on prescription milk and I started to do PUPD one night and he was quite responsive but I was exhausted from doing it all myself (DH is an absolute star with the boys) then the next night DS2 has terrible cold and can't breathe so allowed him to fall asleep in my arms as normal then turfed into cot, DS1 then wakes with croup after touching some dubious Christmas decorations and having an allergic reaction to them.

By 5am I end up taking DS2 into our bed where he sleeps in the crook of my arm and my shoulder hurts like hell the next day. He is not content to lie next to me (plus DH is 6'3" big fella and is scared of rolling over onto him)

Am now waiting for books to arrive (knew I should have forked for express delivery) and will start again. I am SAHM so no plans to put DS2 in nursery etc.

It is reassuring to know that I am not alone in being awake at ridiculous times in the night and that it does seem to be natural to cuddle/feed our babies to sleep. I couldn't do CC it would tear me apart, listening to DS2 scream in pain with reflux before we found a solution that worked for him was heartbreaking.

Dear Hotpot, welcome on board, the baby whisperer didn't solve all my problems as like yourself I found PU/PD physically too tiring to do but I have found that the NCSS is improving DS sleeps slowly and gently. It's taken a while especially I am not very good at sticking with plans. I'm sorry that your baby was poorly and glad he is better now. DS had jaundice and never cried at all until the MW put him in a phototherapy cot naked with all the lights but without a mattress heater, he cried for 3 hours until the morning shift came on and realised that he was cold. Since that day I can't bear him to cry and get really distressed whenever he does cry, so I know how you feel. I don't think babies cry for no reason it it just sometimes a reason that we can't readily see.

well after a good night and day the other day its back to normal!no sleep!and guess which mummy forgot the clocks went back and was eating breakfast at 4.45!i have started to fill in logs for whats happening now to see his usual sleep.im dreading having to write down in night,i'll probably end up writting on wall!after each bad night i wake up thinking im going to get cot but i love cosleeping and know if i got cot he wouldnt sleep and id end up doing something like pupd and i really dont want too.i love idea of a night off,i'll see what dh thinks!lo will proberbly sleep all night!

hi all
hotpot - welcome to the thread. Sounds like you've been having a bit of a time of it Hope your books arrive soon.

Difers - what an awful story! no wonder you hate hearing him cry.

DH stayed in DS's room last night & he slept 7 hours straight! 2.30 - 3 he had a bit of a grizzle & DH cuddled him back down into his cot but it wasn't so bad that I felt I needed to feed him (so really was no more than a half asleep moan - I normally rush in there!) I was awake though & couldn't get back to sleep until about 5. He woke again at 6.30 so pretty good I think (fingers crossed..fingerscrossed...)

He seems to be totally ok with the lack of bf at night (not even having a dream feed)but I have to admit I'm bf more during the day to make up & still bf & cuddle to sleep for naps (not that i'm feeling guilty at denying him or anything - how daft am I)

moljam - I actually never got round to doing the log (I may yet though) I think my commitment levels to following the plan rigidly leave something to be desired which is probably why I have trouble seeing the improvements (though they have been pretty huge this week)

Hope the time change hasn't been too bad for everyone (we've done it in one go & DS even delayed his "I need my morning nap" routine which was surprising)

Happy Sunday everyone

Babelisa I'm drooling thinking of the lovely wine, that thought should increase my focus a bit.
Danceswithbabies you are probably right about how our babies tune into us and I think you are doing remarkably well to keep calm and positive in the face of lets face it no where near enough sleep. I know its hard but I really think comparisons with others are unhelpful, they've been the source of too much of my giving myself a hard time because I think I come off looking chaotic and shit compared to loads of my friends. things have evolved the way they have and I need to focus on where I want to go and how I want to get there. Just stick with your instincts and you can't be far wrong.
Moljam, I stand corrected. The speed not fast enough for any of us, I was just jealous and pleased for you. I can't believe it was so short lived, its almost worse having your expectations raised then dashed eh!
I am really exhausted today and feeling a bit flat again so knowing you're all out there in sleepy cyberland has made me feel less alone. The formula dream feed is certainly helping a bit and I'm going to keep trying that with the addition of cooled down boiled water for later feedings from tomorrow. I'm DREADING that!!!! DP going to give me a break one night this week so thanks for the suggestion Iris. How did your DH survive? Did baby sleep better/worse?
Hotpot welcome to our world.....

Iris, am I going mad? Is this the second night your DH has been on the nightshift? WOW, this will be suggested to DP as a model of how to move forward. Congratulations!!!!!
(I'm so tired obviously missed the critical info 1st time)

Nights off are for winners! Can't reccomend it enough. For a while now I've had every Friday night off. I put DD down at her bedtime (coz it's just easier), then I'm off duty til whenever I wake up on Saturday. If she wakes up after I've put her down DH deals with it (coz I'm usually sat with my fet up sipping a large JD & Coke on the rocks, and he gets up with her in the morning while I sleep til lunchtime. Kinda makes the week more bearable when I have Saturday mornings to look forward to. DH then has his lie-in on Sunday morning, then weekdays we're both up early. Unfortunately he'll be in Belize til around 16th December so no nights off for the forseeable

momomama - DH said he'd do the nights for 4 nights because
a) he's been around a fair bit lately (works away a lot sometimes for long spells) and so DS doesn't get hysterical if he goes in to him at the moment
b) he's got a few days leave, and
c) I'm really not functioning very well on any level at the moment and haven't been for a while & he's starting to recognise this & wants to help (TBH pnd is at the back of my mind & I'm hoping to keep it there - or make it go away)

I know I'm not really doing NCSS at night at the moment & so ought to bugger off the thread but I really value the support so does anyone object if I hang around? (please be honest - I wont mind )

I don't mind if you stay on as long as I can stay on too as I'm having another lapse in the NCSS plan aswell.

Difers - thanks but I bet you are doing NCSS really..I've just been reading the book and discover (to my infinate joy) that we are still pretty much in keeping with NCSS at night (p137 - moving baby to own room) (guilt trip neatly avoided )

Thinking logically, we're on here as none of us want distressed babies so we're always going to be doing something that's written in the book (or variations of it) and so I figure that if it fulfils the no cry/comforted and contented baby criterion it's gotta be ok (hasn't it?? - or am I having "a moment"? Though probably my "moment" is that I'm actually thinking about all of this so seriously )

both of you defiantly need to keepposting,i think it helps talking to like minded people even if youre unable to follow ncss at moment.ive only just started following it but have been posting on thread for a while.iris,hope you get rest you need,hope you dont have pnd.i find dancing helps!our favorite is aretha franklin,we dance round room singing at top of lungs to stop sad feelings!
bbwbabellisa,sounds great!what a fantastic husband you have!i suggested night off to my dh he kind of agreed but we'll see.i dont think hed do it weekly though!

Belize BBWLisa? i'm from Belize. sigh....

Hurrah finally thought of a halloween-ish name!
Iris this thread wouldnt be the same without you, you started it for goodness sake! and now you have made me confess that i havent read my book yet, yikes, can only plead too tired to start.will defo start it by end of this week.
after 2 absolute shockers of nights with cumulative 2hrs sleep (DD had huge bags under her eyes on fri morn whilst i had no eyes whatsoever) have had 2 bearable ones.both days DD has had a 1.5hrs nap in her cot in morning about 10.30ish and then a 30-60min nap about 5pm.the one thing that seems to help her nap markedly is if i close her bedroom door (always have monitor on).also think DH getting up at 5.45am must always wake DD as she always sleeps longer at weekends.last night bed at 8.30pm, she seems to be enjoying her massage now as lays still for it for 5 mins, then awake at 3am for 50 mins then asleep until 8.30am old time.i was in sucha good mood which is lucky as dealing with in laws is requiring a LOT of patience today.however tonight DD already woken up once and can hear her shuffling about on monitor now .saw a top tooth coming thru yesterday so maybe explains particularly bad nights but sometimes feel am always making excuses.....colds...teeth....overtired....etcetc

big welcome to hotpot, mummyscaryhouse and fluffyanimal.it feels so much better when you ard up in the night to imagine the other mums on here also up.

danceswithbabys - i feel just the same when ou wrote about your child looking at you when BFg to sleep.i dont know why some mums didnt just buy themselves a new handbag instead of having a baby, they look like it'd cheer them up more.my sil is big routine and cc fan, hence mil thinks it is only way to do it and keeps asking DH in shocked tones ;is she still feeding her at night?and keeps telling me to stop bfg.have never even seen sil touch her baby and is 12wks old!

anyway more stirrings on monitor so had better get going, good luck all, sleepy vibes to all bambinos.

iris and moljam big congrats for your great nights