Controlled crying at 4 months old.

[Writerwannabe83]

Bedtimes have become a nightmare for me - DS just refuses to sleep.

Last night it took 4 hours for him go fall asleep once we had started his bedtime routine. That's a long 4 hours of grizzling, crying and screaming.

He will cry and cry in his Crib but the minute I pick him up, he stops. He looks at me, gives me a huge smile and a lovely laugh and starts flailing his arms and legs everywhere like he wants to play.

I calm him down and put him back in his crib and the crying starts again.

It goes on and on and on and on. He cries, I pick him up, he laughs/smiles, I put him back down, he cries again, I pick him up again, he laugh/smiles - you get the picture.

I offer feeds and change his nappy in between all these pick ups and put downs to ensure there's no reason for his screaming but absolutely nothing makes any difference.

Me and DH are nearly at breaking point - we just can't maintain this anymore.

Normally the pattern goes in for 2.5 hours but last nights record 4 hours just bought it home how insane it is.

Once he does go to sleep (usually from exhaustion) he sleeps very well. His first stretch will be 5-6 hours, then he has a feed, then sleeps again for another 3 hours. It's just getting him to sleep is the problem.

I spoke to a HV today who suggested we try controlled crying. She said to carry out his bedtime routine, pop him in his crib, turn the lights down and then for me to go and sit out on the landing. She advised that once DS starts crying to leave him for a minute before going back in, and I'm not to pick him up but just pat him for reassurance and then leave again. She told me to just keep doing this and prepare myself for having to go in and out about 50 times. She said it can be hard emotionally but after a week there should be a huge improvement in getting DS to sleep.

I don't know how I feel about it, but I know I can't spend 4 hours every night just picking him up and putting him down.

Has anyone else ever done it this early?

And if not, how did you deal with problems as bad as this?

Does your partner work Monday to Friday? if so, tonight might be a good night to experiment with a later bedtime and an evening nap. If it is still awful, you can catch up tomorrow.

Personally I would not sleep train before six months, or at least until I was very clear that the baby had object permanence.

Isn't it much worse for them if they have object permanence though?

Well the thinking is that they can understand that you are coming back.... That said, I did more gentle sleep training much older. And in that case they need to understand that, for example, your voice outside the door means that you are there.

Why oh why are bloody HV's recommending this barbaric method at 4 months old?!? I just don't understand. All the research says "6 months" and some even "12 months". Are HV's ignoring evidence or not educated??

OP, I would do CC at 4 months but each to their own.

*wouldnt do not would!

Even if a 6 month old realises that you are gone but still outside somewhere, I don't think they have the cognitive ability to know that you will come back. If I was going to do leaving to cry methods of sleep training I would definitely do it either before 6 months or after 18 months. 6-12 months seems like the worst possible time to do it for the baby,

writerwannabe I have not read the whole thread and we are in a bad sleep place ourselves at the moment, but I do have a good winding tip!!
My baby was tongue tied and had dreadful wind until 4 months, screamed all day long, and my chiropractor showed me a really effective winding method.

Sit baby upright on your lap, facing away from you. (You may need to lean his back against your stomach to support him) Lean baby slightly forwards (lean forwards yourself if needed) and put your hands around his middle, with your fingers pressing gently just under his ribs. Then move his upper body in gentle circles, still leaning slightly forwards.

My baby always burps really quickly using this method. If it doesn't work, stop, do a few back-pats then try again.

Also, a thing called the Windii saved my baby hours of pain before we knew this technique. Google it!

Thanks ellie - I shall look it up.

DS has only had 2 hours sleep in 13 hours today

I'm feeding him in the bedroom now and he is exhausted!!

We have moved his Crib out and bought his Cot in! He looks so tiny and lost in it

I'm anticipating a bad few nights whilst he adjusts to being somewhere new.

Is it weird that I think because he looks so tiny in it, it means he will be cold? All he sleeps in is a vest and some socks because it's so ridiculously hot in our room at night.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of human biology is that a pathogen needs to make it into the blood stream for antibodies against it to be made. You won't make antibodies against a pathogen if you just touch it, with your hands or your nipples.

But breast milk is a secretion, via ducts - my baby infected me with both thrush and staph infections in my breasts in her earliest days, and those infections will have entered my bloodstream. They certainly weren't restricted to the nipples - in fact a key symptom is "deep breast pain". It wasn't treated topically in either case. You can be infected with bacteria in any orifice that secretes, no? And then the immune system will begin manufacturing antibodies?

Wiggly, are you thinking of Cantoni (2008)? Be interesting to read more on it. I read about this theory when I wasn't able to feed DS (it depressed me, because I felt like even expressing milk was second rate). I have no idea who is right but it's certainly something that seems to be seriously suggested.

I was treated topically and orally for the thrush and staph though, thinking about it - forgotten that. I had to apply the creams after every feed and every 3 hours respectively, as well as take tablets. With a newborn. Who also needed ointment on her mouth and drops on her tongue. I needed pain relief to feed her, as well. Took a chart to remember who needed what, when!

I am a bf peer supporter and in my training the lactation consultant taught us about what wiggly is talking about. It really is the most incredible thing.

Milk contains antibodies which the mother's body generates in response to pathogens which she comes into contact with, and these pass to the baby. But even more amazing (I think) if the baby has come into contact with something, and then breastfeeds, there is a process whereby the milk making cells respond to that by generating specific antibodies. This means there is an immune protection system even if mum and baby have been separated for instance.

Sorry if my explanation isn't exactly scientifically correct but you get the gist.

CoteDAzur do you think it's amazing yet?

Writerwannabe83 how was last night in the big cot?

Do you think the heat might be contributing to his wakefullness?

morning all!!!!!!

. . .

OMG - last night was amazing!!!!!

We started bedtime much later (21.40pm) and he was asleep in his cot by 22.00pm!! He woke up 10 minutes later, realised he was somewhere new, had a little grizzle but after a cuddle he was back asleep in his cot within 10 minutes!

He then slept for 6.5 hours!!

Had a feed.

Slept for another 3.5 hours!!!

Last night was the most stress free bedtime in weeks and weeks!!

Thank you all so so much for all your tips and advice!!!

What a great night. Fingers crossed for many more.

BreakingBudhist, you wrote an excellent and insightful post. I wish I could have read it 11 years ago. Though, I must admit that I might not have understood it then.

Wow that's fab!! :)

Ellie that winding technique is awesome, just tested it :)

Glad you had a good night OP

Thanks for your post buddhist - it's the sort of thing all new mothers should be told to prevent anxiety about bedtimes and routines at an early age.

Awesome post, Breaking!

Once I realised that our house was not going to be one where the children were comatose by 7pm, I felt a lot better and built my expectations around reality. Much healthier for all concerned.

great news writer

Agree with everything buddhist wrote. When DD was tiny I went through phases of going with the flow, and phases where I tried to 'train' her (albeit using v gentle methods) to sleep how and when and where I wanted her to. If I could go back I would tell myself to just go with the flow and she would eventually 'get it' and sleep through the night when she was ready.

Oh, that's brilliant, so delighted for you!