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Controlled crying at 4 months old.

226 replies

Writerwannabe83 · 25/07/2014 13:25

Bedtimes have become a nightmare for me - DS just refuses to sleep.

Last night it took 4 hours for him go fall asleep once we had started his bedtime routine. That's a long 4 hours of grizzling, crying and screaming.

He will cry and cry in his Crib but the minute I pick him up, he stops. He looks at me, gives me a huge smile and a lovely laugh and starts flailing his arms and legs everywhere like he wants to play.

I calm him down and put him back in his crib and the crying starts again.

It goes on and on and on and on. He cries, I pick him up, he laughs/smiles, I put him back down, he cries again, I pick him up again, he laugh/smiles - you get the picture.

I offer feeds and change his nappy in between all these pick ups and put downs to ensure there's no reason for his screaming but absolutely nothing makes any difference.

Me and DH are nearly at breaking point - we just can't maintain this anymore.

Normally the pattern goes in for 2.5 hours but last nights record 4 hours just bought it home how insane it is.

Once he does go to sleep (usually from exhaustion) he sleeps very well. His first stretch will be 5-6 hours, then he has a feed, then sleeps again for another 3 hours. It's just getting him to sleep is the problem.

I spoke to a HV today who suggested we try controlled crying. She said to carry out his bedtime routine, pop him in his crib, turn the lights down and then for me to go and sit out on the landing. She advised that once DS starts crying to leave him for a minute before going back in, and I'm not to pick him up but just pat him for reassurance and then leave again. She told me to just keep doing this and prepare myself for having to go in and out about 50 times. She said it can be hard emotionally but after a week there should be a huge improvement in getting DS to sleep.

I don't know how I feel about it, but I know I can't spend 4 hours every night just picking him up and putting him down.

Has anyone else ever done it this early?

And if not, how did you deal with problems as bad as this?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Igggi · 25/07/2014 23:03

Do you think that is causally linked to celebrity culture though? It would be odd if a child born before television/internet etc was so influenced by popstars and premier league footballers. And people have always talked negatively about "the youth of today". Was in Pliny (maybe Plato)who wrote about how cheeky the youths of his
day were to their elders.

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg · 25/07/2014 23:05

Writer - DS is 2.5 months and has never slept in his crib (we co-sleep) because he objects to the space constraints. 5 minutes and he's woken himself up by bashing his arms. As soon as his big sister's new bed arrives, he's getting offered a full size cot. His current preference is half a double bed.

Writerwannabe83 · 25/07/2014 23:05

sliced - your dad sounds like my mom. Me and my sister never had any real affection or warmth from her when we were growing up. The last hug I ever had off her was when I was about 7 and even then she didn't like it. There's no way in a million years my mom would ever hug me now or say she loves me - ever! She doesn't have a close attachment to her parents or her sister - she is totally detached and unable to express any kind of loving emotion or behaviour towards people she cares about.

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Gileswithachainsaw · 25/07/2014 23:05

That's the trouble with babies they never read the books !!

Dd1 was a side sleeper and then tummy when she could roll.

Dd2 tummy or nothing

This sleeping on back thing is alien to me. It sucks because you worry and then you worry more they are getting no sleep. I think all you can really do is let them sleep how they are comfy and then minimise all other risk factors fest you can.

Gileswithachainsaw · 25/07/2014 23:06

Best

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 25/07/2014 23:06

Writer, it sounds like your hv has given you bad advice - controlled crying at four months and not offering the breast to a distressed baby are not helpful recommendations.

The nights are very hot and stuffy right now, my 15wo often calms down when I walk outside with him for some fresh air (we have doors and windows open and he's just in a short sleeve vest but it's still so warm!). If he's really worked up I take him for a walk in the pram - a lovely summer evening stroll is calming for you as well as baby. I really would give up on trying to get him down in the cot in the evening, just keep him with you whilst you watch tv/go for a walk/whatever and bring him up with you when you go to bed.

I think you can get wedges to tilt the mattress if they have reflux so they sleep at a more upright angle, could that help?

And as for babies not smiling but just having gas, that's a very outdated idea - one of the things the doctor checks at the 8 week visit is social smiling! Wasn't Truby King a sheep farmer with no experience of human babies? Babies need lots of cuddles and interaction to develop properly - of course they need sleep and to learn sleep strategies but there is no point trying to impose adult sleep patterns, their needs are different.

Igggi · 25/07/2014 23:06

Do you have a travel cot? They are nice and wide.
Mine preferred sleeping on me to anything else Hmm
Just the second one actually, first child was happy in his cot - same mum, same "parenting style" - different babies.

SlicedAndDiced · 25/07/2014 23:09

Yes writer I've got a feeling those books around at the time had a lot to do with it.

I only met my fathers mum once or twice but she definitely seemed the sort to not put much store in cuddles or affection.

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 25/07/2014 23:09

coachbuilt Funnily enough, I'm guessing many of those raised with the Truby method, and those who liked and used the Truby method, are now the parents spoken about on the Stately Homes threads.

Writerwannabe83 · 25/07/2014 23:11

My HV also worried me when she said that as DS wasn't smiling at 5 weeks of age it was something I should keep my eye on as "It's something he really should be doing by now" - I got myself in a right frenzy over that.

I have got a travel cot but no mattress for it - I imagine they need a mattress in it because it doesn't look very comfy otherwise...

I put him down about 10 minutes ago and he hasn't moved. I know of course that this is absolutely no indication that everything is going to be ok....

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Coachbuiltprammama · 25/07/2014 23:13

non of them i know are like that they are all very happy well adjusted educated people they never miss a sunday in church always use impeccable manners and speak well even my own children in their 20's even if they get called "fancy" or "weird" it wont stop them from being who they are

SlicedAndDiced · 25/07/2014 23:17

Umm coach...I hate to break this to you but...

Good manners, going to church and being educated don't really say fudge all about that persons emotional capabilities.

My dad also did all if those things. But those who loved him couldn't help but see how damaged he was. It took years of dogged persistence by us all to even get him to say he loved us.

Emotional damage and attachment issues aren't all that visible. But they can still be devastating to that persons overall well being.

mrsspagbol · 25/07/2014 23:18

Sorry if this has been suggested but have you tried gripe water and / or the tiger tree hold for wind?

Goldmandra · 25/07/2014 23:19

Coach advice changes as knowledge and understanding of children's development increases.

Young babies need affectionate, responsive care givers in order to enable normal brain development. Google attachment theory. There's masses of evidence.

Parents are programmed to offer the care that babies are programmed to respond to. The system works well unless someone interferes and persuades the parent to ignore their instincts, damaging the baby's development and quite possibly their instinctive responses to their own babies in the future.

Fortunately most people listen to the most up to date, evidence based advice and their babies get the nurturing care they need.

Kaekae · 25/07/2014 23:19

Hate CC think it is pretty cruel and tried it once after some "advice" never ever again. Leaving my baby to cry and seeing him so upset was just not for me. I would rather cuddle him to sleep so we coslept after that and never looked back.

Igggi · 25/07/2014 23:22

I see you've already got a cot, just to say re travel cot it presumably had a sort of folding,flat, lightly padded bit you put in the bottom? That's all the mattress there is, not too soft I'd agree! Mothercare sell a travel cot mattress (which we got) but it's about £30 and is just a mattress topper really.

wigglylines · 25/07/2014 23:22

"My HV told me many months ago not to put DS to the breast if he was upset as it wasn't beneficial - but it seems the most natural and effective thing to do."

This is absolute nonsense! Seriously, please stop listening to this HV. This comments actually make me really angry. If any HV said that to me I'd file an official complaint. It's wonderful that you can comfort your baby by the simple act of breastfeeding (which at the same time helps your body make anti-bodies, individually tailored for your own child). How dare she get in the way of a mother and baby breastfeeding. Did you know by the way, that HVs are not breastfeeding experts? You would think they are by default, but although there are some great exceptions, they're not generally trained to be breastfeeding experts. What she's telling you is not best practice or based on evidence. It's just her ill-informed opinion.

Please start listening to your own instincts and baby's, not what you're "meant" to do.

SolomanDaisy · 25/07/2014 23:22

At that age I just had DS on my lap in the living room,cluster feeding all evening. I know it's not for everyone, but it meant no hassle evenings for us and a late start in the morning. Could you try it?

wigglylines · 25/07/2014 23:22

Sorry that should say your baby's, above!

JackieBrambles · 25/07/2014 23:23

Honestly, if he's upset and feeding settles him, just feed!!
He's so little and it's hot, he's prob thirsty. My DS fed to sleep most of the time until he was about 10 or 11months old because it was so easy. I really worried about it though.

When he was 4 months he'd wake after 45 mins and go mental, the only thing that would settle him was a feed (even though he'd had a massive one 45 mins before!). I couldn't have him upset so I just fed. So glad I did :)

He's 17 months now and sleeps through more often than not. I never had to do controlled crying (I couldn't). We did gradual withdrawal instead.

Hope he's still asleep!

Lovelydiscusfish · 25/07/2014 23:23

I think coachbuiltprammamma might be a bit of a joke poster, looking at her posting history (I never normally troll hunt so sorry, sorry, sorry, delete me!)
And OP, so sorry you are finding it tough. In my limited experience, just offering the breast can be the best thing! Four months is very tiny for a breast fed baby to learn not to go to sleep on the boob. You sound like a very loving and caring parent - go with your instincts. And if you can, relax a little about having a set bedtime in mind. Maybe try to adjust your and dh's sleep patterns to the baby's. Because, I promise you, this too shall pass.

Writerwannabe83 · 25/07/2014 23:25

I think my sister has been damaged by our mother's way of raising us. She is very withdrawn from family, doesn't allow us to get close to her, doesn't show affection towards anyone - she actually freezes if any of us go to hug her, and I have never seen her hug her own children or say she loves them - although obviously she does. It's quite sad to see really.

Gripe water - when he had colic we tried gripe water, giving it frequently as per the guidelines and it seemed to work a treat. However, after about 4 days of using it DS started getting a lot of stomach pains, lots of wind from his bottom, really really straining to open his bowels and seemed in a lot of discomfort most days so we stopped giving it and he improved. However, over the last week or so we have been giving a one-off dose at night to try and ward off the problem of trapped wind but it's hit and miss really. I feel like we are trying so many things we don't even know what works and what doesn't anymore.

He's still fast asleep, that's another 15 minutes that have passed...

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SlicedAndDiced · 25/07/2014 23:25

I second that your hv sounds awful op.

Mine have been too. Mist of them just seem to make it up as they go along.

Mine certainly wasn't giving me the correct advice. Very outdated and at times I'm certain she really did make it up!

Like this beauty...

'Oh no a two week old baby can definitely bee manipulative, don't let her!' Hmm

I mean, I knew she was a silly bint. But I shudder to think of the damage she could have caused with those words elsewhere.

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 25/07/2014 23:27

coach, I'm perfectly happy, well-adjusted, well-mannered and well-spoken. I got by just fine being shown love and attention from my parents. To top it off, I'm one of this generation of me-me-me spoilt young people you mentioned earlier. Many others are the same.

I'm going to stop replying to you or the thread will be derailed. The important thing is giving advice. How are you getting on, writer?

MsBug · 25/07/2014 23:27

Dd was a lot like this at four months. Worse actually; she woke up countless times in the night which was a real shock to the system as she was sleeping for five or six hour stretches at three months.

We survived by starting to cosleep and offering a boob every time dd whimpered. Dd would stay in the living room all evening feeding and sleeping in my arms, then we would all go to bed. She didn't have a bedtime till she was at least six months old.

Now she is 18 months and sleeps pretty well 8pm to 7am with no wakeups. I never did any sleep training, she just figured it out in her own time. Leaving her to cry just felt wrong to me.

So my advice would be to do whatever gets you through the next few months with as much sleep and as little stress as possible, and his sleep will likely sort itself out when he is ready.