Controlled crying at 4 months old.

[Writerwannabe83]

Bedtimes have become a nightmare for me - DS just refuses to sleep.

Last night it took 4 hours for him go fall asleep once we had started his bedtime routine. That's a long 4 hours of grizzling, crying and screaming.

He will cry and cry in his Crib but the minute I pick him up, he stops. He looks at me, gives me a huge smile and a lovely laugh and starts flailing his arms and legs everywhere like he wants to play.

I calm him down and put him back in his crib and the crying starts again.

It goes on and on and on and on. He cries, I pick him up, he laughs/smiles, I put him back down, he cries again, I pick him up again, he laugh/smiles - you get the picture.

I offer feeds and change his nappy in between all these pick ups and put downs to ensure there's no reason for his screaming but absolutely nothing makes any difference.

Me and DH are nearly at breaking point - we just can't maintain this anymore.

Normally the pattern goes in for 2.5 hours but last nights record 4 hours just bought it home how insane it is.

Once he does go to sleep (usually from exhaustion) he sleeps very well. His first stretch will be 5-6 hours, then he has a feed, then sleeps again for another 3 hours. It's just getting him to sleep is the problem.

I spoke to a HV today who suggested we try controlled crying. She said to carry out his bedtime routine, pop him in his crib, turn the lights down and then for me to go and sit out on the landing. She advised that once DS starts crying to leave him for a minute before going back in, and I'm not to pick him up but just pat him for reassurance and then leave again. She told me to just keep doing this and prepare myself for having to go in and out about 50 times. She said it can be hard emotionally but after a week there should be a huge improvement in getting DS to sleep.

I don't know how I feel about it, but I know I can't spend 4 hours every night just picking him up and putting him down.

Has anyone else ever done it this early?

And if not, how did you deal with problems as bad as this?

Coachbuilt - young babies might not smile, 2.5 month olds most certainly do. Come meet him and see. I find it very sad that you see cuddles and kisses as just things that mess up a routine. But I'll leave it there because I don't want to derail the OP's thread further.

Writer - If he screams when you put him down, what happens if you don't? I just ask because DD1 used to hate being put down, but would go in her crib once in a deep sleep and be ok if adults were sleeping in the room (could obviously hear us). So she slept on us until we went to bed.

Some very sad posts coachbuilt - your baby was a helpless little person whose brain was shaped by contact and affection (or lack of it).

Writer - if bedtime is really not working I would forget about it tonight and do something else. Put the TV on and snuggle up on the sofa for a bit?

My DS used to scream because of wind. I slept propped up on pillows with him on my chest for months

We did CC at 9 months - it took a while but he's a fab self settler now. He still wakes at night but tends to just need a reassuring pat.

You're doing all the right things Writer - although if it continues you might want up check out silent reflux? If he's only happy when upright then it might be that.

penguins - I completely agree with us over stimulating him. It's just so hard when you're desperate to stop the crying isn't it....we just keep trying different things when like you said, he probably just needs to be held in a dark room.

I resorted to feeding him.

My HV told me many months ago not to put DS to the breast if he was upset as it wasn't beneficial - but it seems the most natural and effective thing to do.

Have you tried putting the cot at an angle?

Some babies really do hate lying flat on their backs.

Roll up a couple of towels and prop up the mattress so he's more upright

Always offer a breast if the baby is upset - it solves 99% of baby problems

We had the same problem with dd. Screamed hysterically every time she lay down in the cot, instantly.

Turned out she just hated cots. Put her in a toddler bed ( with the safety sides ) and well padded the area.

Slept like a dream from then on.

Has he been burped? If it's trapped wind, there's different holds you can use - if supporting his chin isn't working, have you tried the over the shoulder or 'tiger in the tree' hold? They put a little more pressure on and help to dislodge the trapped wind. I tend to let DD have tummy time if she's got trapped wind, it usually brings it up (occasionally accompanied by a little bit of milk, but not always).

Infacol/gripe water too
What works outside of bedtime? Bouncer, cuddles, sling, anything - try and ignore the clock, forget about routine for now, just do what works at any time of the day to comfort him. Work at re-introducing a dummy if you want to, I know they get a bad rep but you'll be far better at taking the dummy away later on if you're not so sleep deprived from night after night of sleeplessness!

Good gracious Writer. You were told not to feed him if upset? it's the best way to calm a very upset baby. Even if you are of the 'don't feed to sleep' school, there is absolutely nothing to suggest you shouldn't feed until calm and sleepy. And personally I feed to sleep at this age.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and support.

Typically he screams whilst in his cot until he's picked up and then he is all smiles and giggles. However, I think it soon escalates to him being shattered, his brain and emotions being in a complete frenzy and him just screaming because he doesn't know what else to do. It's like he just can't calm down.

He never used to be like this. If it is the natural 4 month sleep regression then it's total hell.

Fledermaus - That is the mantra I follow. If a small baby is upset and there is no obvious cause, a boob normally solves it.

Their brain changes around 4 months IIRC. They develop more adult sleep and wake cycles and are more able to fight sleep. I had read about a four month regression, but had been led to believe a couple of weeks. Sadly, it wasn't. The key is not to try and do things 'right' or to try and 'fix' your baby, but to remember that you are dealing with a tiny individual and find ways that get all of you through. Honestly, in a few months, you will barely remember this bit.

And then you'll wish you could remember every second .

He's suckling away now and is much, much calmer but I just don't know what my next step should be. I'm pretty sure if I take him off so he doesn't fall asleep he will just start crying again, but if he does fall asleep I'm back at square one of having to put him to bed unwinded.

I feel exhausted.

In the day he's so good but just turns into a nightmare when it comes to bedtime.

Honestly writer, when he is a bit bigger consider the toddler bed ( I used one of those motion sensor monitors for reassurance she hadn't wriggled out)

Dd did exactly the same as you are describing and no matter what we tried she never lay in that cot without screaming.

babies aren't dolly toys they don't need cuddles and kisses and fussing that stuff just messes there routine

On the contrary. Babies need those things in order for their brains to develop normally and for them to learn to form attachments. Without them their brains are permanently damaged.

Writer - How about letting him take most of the feed, winding him, and then returning him for some comfort sucking? He won't be taking in so much and probably it's coming at him slower, so less air/wind.

Wait til he has finished feeding, put him up on your shoulder and walk around patting and gently jiggling him and if he needs to burp he will. The patting and movement will soothe him to sleep - keep it up for a while until he is really deeply asleep then put him down.

Nothing will ever convince me that imposing a time limit on cuddles with a baby is what's best for them. It may have suited you to get your three hours of cleaning (!) done each day, but you have no idea how that felt to your baby. I'm sure they've grown up just fine but that system sounds unnatural to both mother and child and there's a reason it is not popular with parent today.
Sorry OP I don't know about the wind situation, that much distress seems like something to be checked out. As regards your general evenings - for goodness sake get out of the bedroom, you'll go mad! With ds2 he had a bath, got into bed clothes and then fed in my arms (while I sat on sofa and watched telly/mumsnetted) until sleepy then put down in carrycot in sitting room. When I (or dh) was ready to go to bed he was brought through to his cot. This might not get him to sleep quicker, but it made sitting up with him a lot more pleasant!

Well he is asleep in my shoulder and I'm desperately trying to get a burp out of him.

Tomorrow I'm going to DH to bring the cot into our room and we will see if that makes a difference. I'm willing to try anything!!

He's in the moses basket in your room currently (not in the cot in another room). Is that right?

Some babies do just hate moses baskets as they get older. Have you ever let him fall asleep on your bed or somewhere else with lots of space? If his natural sleep position is 'the starfish' then that might be part of the problem. If he isn't rolling yet, you could also consider taking the side off the cot to make a side car and can then pat him without the bars being in the way.

My HV told me many months ago not to put DS to the breast if he was upset as it wasn't beneficial - but it seems the most natural and effective thing to do.
For the second time tonight, Writer, I'd like to tell your HV to fuck off.

oh yes i have noticed how so many of the children born in 1920-1960 have grown into such terrible people thanks to the truby method not compared to the spoilt kids you see these days who think the world relvolves around them and that their going to be a popstar or a footballer when they grow up ?

I think my dads me must have been like you Coach.

Totally normal on the surface, but unable to ever express real emotions, even with his close family. Always clammed up in that regard.

In fact that goes for a few people of a certain generation I know.

*mum

He sleeps in a crib in our bedroom but the Moses Basket is in the living room for daytime naps. It's interesting you say that though about space as I put him in his MB earlier as he looked shattered but he lay in there for an hour without sleeping so I gave up and took him out. I put him underneath his play gym and within 10 minutes he was spread out and fast asleep.

His crib is nice and long but as far as width goes, it isn't anything to write home about. DS likes to fall asleep on his side but always ends up on his back with his arms out and bent at the elbows so his hands are at the side of his face. I think he has no choice but to bed his arms though as the Crib isn't wide enough to allow him to just stretch them out.

I'm definitely going to try the cot tomorrow!