Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Gah, horrendous night last night. At the 4th wakeup at 2.15 am, DS screamed for the best part of an hour. I finally gave up and handed him over to DH (going against all our plans to be consistent...) but neither DH nor I really got back to sleep again for the rest of the night.

Fratercula sounds awful. Have some . Do you think he's teething? Usually teething or a bad cold is the culprit here on the horrendous nights. Ds has had a blissful few cold-free weeks over the holidays but now we're back to the usual routine, groups etc. he's starting to sound snuffly again. Typical!!

And so much for the magical powers of breastfeeding boosting their immunity

Yes it was definitely yelling in pain... the problem is he yells in pain/discomfort (and sticks his fingers in his mouth at the same time so I'm pretty sure it's teeth) EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. For months and months. Two more teeth have appeared this week, but they're through now, so surely that should be the acute phase over?

Happily he has been relatively free of colds, but he'll be starting in nursery soon so that will be a major attack on the immune system...

I really don't know, maybe they hurt as they are moving down as well as cutting through? Sounds like your Ds is having a particularly bad time of it though. I'm assuming you've tried all the gels, powders, drugs etc. that are suggested. We have 12 month jabs next week so that will throw a massive spanner in the works for a few weeks. Not looking forward to it...

Hello, to those worried about Ann and what she'll say. I didn't want to do some of the things she suggested. I don't use bribery or coercion with my children (wherever possible, I'm not perfect but I certainly won't be using reward charts. I sometimes day I've got some crisps for when we're all in the car to help with cooperation if things aren't going well but I'm trying to view that as encouragement not bribery as such- it's not like I say if you're good while we're out you can have your crisps/breadsticks/whatever, they get them regardless) so I resisted any ideas where they were rewarded for sleeping well (because what? they're bad if they don't? 2 get something one doesn't? sounded a bit too much like shaming for the one missing out to me). I also didn't want a stair gate on a room. I did try for a week with one of mine and neither me nor the child liked it despite using other ideas we were given to help integrate it so I stopped that too. We still had success. It was just slower.

This nightmare about a bloody fucking wolf in the room is doing my head in. I was with DD from 2:45am to 4:30am because she was too scared for me to go. Gah. And then I accidentally misread my clock when DT the T woke and thought it was morning and we all got up....at 5:20am . My dh is off today though so I went to sleep again then took the children out for him to sleep.

I am not much help with teething. never tried many things bar calpol /ibuprofen and only one of mine really suffered. Stupid idea in the first place teething.

Oh- and I'm a poor sleeper too. Or used to be. Now if mine sleep through I mostly do too . I was up 2-3 times a night til I went to school as a child. And falling asleep I've always found really difficult.

Crap night here last night, I saw every hour. Again...

Thought we were making some progress after DD2 managed to resettle herself on two wake ups, but clearly she was just getting into her stride. Not sure if there is another tooth coming through, I can't see anything but may calpol tonight if she starts waking up hourly again! I tried various things with DD1 but nothing actually seemed to work other than calpol or ipuprofen. Some people claim the amber necklaces are amazing, but seemed like junk science and potentially quite dangerous to me so never tried.

I do use bribery though despite swearing (pre-children obviously) that I would never stoop to such lows... Buts it mainly along the lines of, we'll go and do this (something DD1 does NOT want to do) and then we'll go and have a (sorry Elph!) babyccino. Repeated ad infinitum until we succeed or patience completely runs out and we stomp home grumpily.

Could really do with some sleep, yesterday I left a bag of shopping in the supermarket car park and the keys (including key to the car about 5 metres away on the drive...) in the front door until OH came home and spotted them. For the second time this week.

On the bright side, at least I remembered both children

DD1 has always had a stair gate on her room (as we can't put one at the top of the stairs as its too awkwardly shaped) and its never bothered her. Occasionally I wish we didn't have to so she could just come in instead of calling for me, but that would soon degenerate into nightly trips into our bed I suspect. Not to mention the worry about sleepy toddlers falling straight down the stairs...

Dreaming, what about some 'anti-wolf' protection? I know a couple of people who had luck with "monster-spray" which was just water and essential oil in a spray gun.

or a book like this one?

As a baby I was reportedly a brilliant sleeper from the outset. Fed to sleep for the first two years of my life and did 12 hours straight every time with the mythical two two-hour naps a day. Mum does exaggerate and view me through the thickest rose-coloured glasses in the world, but my dad has corroborated this report, and they find any excuse to disagree with each other (divorced, natch). As an adult, I have been a SHIT sleeper. Terrible insomnia lasting for the better part of 10 years. I suppose it meant I coped better with having babies that don't sleep but having exhaustion as your default setting is balls.

DS1 has always been rather fond of his stair gate, fortunately, as we couldn't really have done without it. He likes to shut himself into his room to play. I curse the bastard thing when I have to practically apparate out of his room in the wee hours. Opening it wakes him up so the whining starts again so I tend to climb over it but I can never remember where the spot without the really creaky floorboard is...

EOMT! New to this site and don't know if the above is a current acronym but it stands for end of my tether! Daughter is 9 - 10 in late summer and we have struggled with bedtime for as long as I can remember. She will go to bed dragging her heels which hubby & I can handle but once in and after sometimes reading for a while with or without me but always getting kisses & cuddles and "tucked in" by both of us, she has got up again almost every night without fail. Sometimes this happens 5 or 6 times.Her reasons vary from noisy wind/weather outside, to being too warm/too cold, to anxiety about her health - a spot or cough or any minor thing (is major to her), tv too quiet/too loud?, having something she "must" tell us there & then, not wanting to get up and go to the toilet on her own - the list goes on. We've tried gentle reasoning, explanations, punishment, giving her supper, not giving her supper, varying her bedtime.... She is allowed into our bed one night a week (at the weekend), we live in a pretty quiet neighbourhood, she has a lovely comfy bed & room, we always leave a nightlight on in her room and in the hall outside. We hardly ever go out either alone or together but when we do, she is usually okay with my Mum who babysits.She is very intelligent with an active imagination and a happy little girl during the day who gets on well at school and has lots of friends.Hubby & I get very little time to ourselves to relax as we are early bedders due to him having to get up early for work during the week and it is stressing us out totally and sometimes winds up with us shouting at her which we instantly feel bad about. I want my daughter to be able to go to bed and go to sleep without her worrying about anything and everything and bedtime not ending on a sour note. It would be heaven if we didn't sit downstairs each night feeling tense, waiting for the evening's excuses to start. Usually kicks off about ten to fifteen minutes after settling her down. Am really starting to think we need to take her to GP to have a child psychologist referral made. Blame myself to a degree as I used to read her a story then sit and hold her hand until she fell asleep when she was tiny but gradually moved away from that. Thought it would be like her dummy - she gave that up easily enough before she was two even though she loved it. Would never send her to bed without kisses & cuddles but is it too much to be allowed some adult time? Think not as we have to be healthy to be there for her but tension is wearing us down.

Nine years old?!

That does sound like a visit to the GP is in order if anxiety is the cause of her wakefulness.

Good idea chocolate I'll buy that book. And maybe try the spray.

joshi Tricky one. Would she be better if she was told she could read for as long as she likes? or to go upstairs and have a kids and cuddle and tell her to pop down once if she needs a final cuddle - so she knows she invited and therefore might not feel the need to come down so often? I used worry dolls to tell your fears to and put under your pillow at about that age. I also had a notebook and pen by my bed for if I had any worried or something I was afraid of forgetting so I could write it down - and again, not hang on to that anxiety. my parents tried everything to get me to sleep

oh- and we only have one stairgate remaining at the top of the stairs which I shut for the time between bath and bed to prevent escape downstairs. I have all 3 wander through at night, DD has got up for a wee from age 2 years 8 months for a wee at night if needed, with help initially but now I just hear her go, and touch wood I have never had a child fall downstairs. In that situation anyway, I've had all fall down more than once each, just never through getting up in the night and toppling down!

Loooong night here, up every hour from midnight. I am blaming the fact that the past two days she's only had one nap either just before or just after lunch, then DH has picked her up and has had family members visiting so they have been cooing playing rather than trying to get her to rest for half an hour. V annoying since as well as bad nights it means it get home from work to a furious overtired baby and have to start bedtime right away.

Anyway, rant over, day off today. Talk about stair gates has reminded me need to fit our upstairs one. Think we are good ng to fit across the landing for now as like Dreaming we need to prevent breaks for the stairs which DD currently enjoys sliding down at an alarming rate.

The longest stretch I got last night was two hours. Apart from that it was every forty minutes for DS2. Ugh. I could blame the vaccinations he had yesterday but I also have a suspicion he was cold. It was fuh-REE-zing here last night and the bedroom was only 13 or 14. I've already thrown caution to the winds and piled him with covers over and above SIDS recommendations. I might try the hot water bottle in the cot trick during feeds tonight if it's as cold again. Can't imagine he's at much risk of SIDS the amount he bloody wakes up

I will also confess that DS1 was in with me all night. DH was away last night and DS2 woke up so many times while I was doing stories with DS1 that the final time I went in to resettle, DS1 climbed into our bed and fell asleep there. 'Fuck it,' thought I. 'He'll keep me warm and he won't wake up when I have to see to DS2.' So he stayed. And very cuddly he was too

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep Good suggestions, thanks.Tried the reading thing - not so sure about letting her pop down - think she would wear that out but can give it a try. Really like your idea about the notebook and am definitely trying that as she likes to write things down and would maybe get things out her head if she externalises it. Have already talked to DD about it and idea went down well.

There must have been something in the air last night! I've been awake since just after 3am as Ds did not want to be put back down. I assume it's teething related as he has some top ones coming through. Think I will deploy the ibuprofen tonight!

Thanks for the Ann info Dreaming. Ds sounds too young for most of those methods at the moment but I can understand your misgivings about them. I had my initial chat with her and have all the paperwork ready to fill in then it's just a question of waiting for our slot!

Sounds like several of us are lousy sleepers as well as our dc. I usually have no problem falling asleep but if I'm stressed or anxious tend to wake during the night or early morning unable to get back to sleep. I usually end up going downstairs to watch a film on the sofa so I don't disturb dh and then doze off there

That was pre Ds obviously...

3am Attitude! Hope the ibuprofen gives you a better time tonight.

Think I may be beginning to switch camps from riding it out as having another marathon bedtime session... DD has gone into her cot three times and each time up screaming before I have reached the door. I have just been down to tell DH to start dinner and have been sympathetically informed that he gets to speak to his friend (who he's not seen since before Christmas) more than me

Am considering inventing some kind of pyjamas with weights in so she actually has to lie down!

Dreaming interesting to hear you are anti the reward charts/bribery/?naughty step? I think I am too, though it's easy to say these things with a 9 mo PFB...

DS did a 4 hour stretch last night... unfortunately from 8.45-12.45, and I didn't get to sleep till about midnight. Then he woke again at 2.40 and cried on and off till 4 am... Think I will be more lenient about using the dummy tonight, I spoke too soon and he's now suffering with a cold as well as the endless teeth. I can see white bumps where the first molar will be. Wish it would get a move on.

Did the early rounds of immunisations affect your DS badly Attitude? Mine was OK with them, a bit grizzly in the day but no noticeable effects at night.

I am hoping not to have to bother with stairgates till we move house.

We are officially on early waking again. I need to try and get back into the Ann regime rather than giving up every morning. Yawn .

fraticula I don't do any of that with my 3 . DD is 4 years 4 months. DTs 3 in April. it's fine!!! I read some Alfie Kohn and love the aha parenting website and Laura Markham's book (peaceful parent happy kids) and even How to Talk so Kids Listen and Listen so Kids Talk (that's for a bit older) plus the Babycalm/Toddlrcalm books. It's been a revelation to me hat there is so much evidence the gentle way works - and probably much better. Our house is a happier place now we are more accepting and less demanding and everyone is more empathic to each other (DTS the T can sometimes stop me before I lose the plot with a cuddle and kiss and he's not actually a very cuddly child normally. I'm amazed at his empty am send how quickly he 'got' it all. He's often the fecking cause of my rage/near rage mind!)

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and back to the bloody fucking sleep.

That pigs/wolf book is ordered yanks chocolate Tomorrow morning I will be firmer with DT the T over morning time. And I will be grateful I have so much more sleep than you lot and pipe down my whinging! !

I can't say I'm comfortable with the naughty step at all, but DH is very keen to use it. He tried using it once when DS1 pulled my hair. He was intent on imprisoning the poor screaming child until he said sorry. I refused to comply after a couple of minutes of it (you're only meant to use it for one minute per year anyway, FFS) and spoke gently with DS instead then let him carry on playing. Guess what? I got a genuine apology and a spontaneous cuddle. And a row off DH because I 'undermined' him His parents are very much of the disciplinarian variety as well and wanted me to start getting shouty at DS1 when he went into his terrible clingyness and heightened tantrums over DS2. FIL actually said, 'It was sheer bloody wilfulness' on DS1's part and that if I persisted in just ignoring his tantrums and being gentle and cuddly with him, 'then that way perdition lies' I said to him, 'He wants his mum, not a Mars Bar' and called Ann instead. She gave me ace advice that involved even more cuddling and attention and, surprise, surprise, it's working. I've had to get assurance off DH that his parents will never, ever spank the DCs as they did DH. I'd fucking kill them.

I think DH is coming around to my way of thinking a bit more having seen how effective Ann's gentle strategies have been, and I'm taking him to a Toddler Calm (Sarah Ockwell-Smith) workshop tomorrow so he can see I'm not just being a permissive hippy and that gentle parenting is actually A Thing. I'd really rather not use rewards (a small part of me died every time I gave DS1 a chocolate button during potty training) but he's so stubborn there are times when I know he's just waiting for a bargaining chip to do what he knows he's supposed to do. I shall be interested to hear what they have to say tomorrow. I just hope I can keep DS2 quiet for the duration. DS1 will be going off on a bus ride with the ILs.

*empathy