Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Hi cat. I think it is a mixture really. Most of us who have been on this thread for a long time have co slept at some point. We have got dd to start the night in her own bed but she still comes into ours during the night when she wakes. For various reasons I'm riding it out as it is at the moment but there are others who have managed to persuade DC into their own beds properly. I know elph did it with the help of the magical Ann.

Mind if I join you? Mum to pfb, ebf 4.5 month old. He's never been a great sleeper but the last month has been awful. Won't sleep longer than 20 mins without being cuddled, so we're bedsharing. But even then he doesn't sleep well - I lost count of last night's wakeups at about number 8... I want to scream at all the people who told me his 3-4 wakings a night when he was tiny would get better!

Thanks, iv bn trying to settle my lo in his cot. We'v had many attempts over the year, OH keeps telling me 2 leave him cry but I cant!
At the mo I'm sitting by his cot. We read story, have projector/mobile, then all goes off & pat 2 sleep. He then wakes multiple times till I bring him in my bed.
Its becoming a double edged sword. I'm happy 2 spend as long as it takes 2 get him in his cot without leaving him 2 cry. I work full time so can only spend so many hours resettling him b4 I need sleep myself!
Am I just ruining my hrs of settling him by then taking him 2 my bed?!
Its really making me feel like a bit of a failure!!

You're right! it was incredibly selfish of me not to use the dts to do a twin study on sleep consultants. Would have been unfair though. There would have been DT the Terrible pitted against dt2 of the mere 1- 2 night wakings and difficult to settle to sleep. One sleep consultant would have had a very easy ride in comparison to the other.

My issue was not sleeping well at all though he was cosleeping with me with one. The other mostly slept in his own bed except once he woke he'd be a nightmare to settle so generally be brought to his twin's single bed by my dh.

Sleep isn't great here atm. DD and DT2 are the culprits and DT the T remains a light sleeper and wakes up when they shout or cry. DD was in my bed because she was scared there was a wolf in her room last night. After an hour of wriggling I gave up and we went to resettle her in her room. DT the T is the 6am alarm clock which is super annoying as dt2 sleeps til 7:30 and DD often does too. However compared to the rest of you it's marvellous.

May we all survive the weekend! [tea]

Wow, DreamingOfAFulNightsSleep how do u cope? We'r they always bad sleepers? Id love 2 have another 1, but not sure how Id cope if I had another who wldnt get out my bed!!

Hello! Another lurker here, emerging from the sleepy shadows to confess my sins: breastfeeding my five-month-old PFB to sleep, co-sleeping, cuddling for ALL his naps (which he conducts on top of me while I'm pinned to the couch) and generally disobeying all sleep-training methods just to get the little guy to SLEEP...and yet! Last night he woke me up 8 times. We've never figured out how to coordinate feeds in bed so I'm up and out when he cries. He went down at 8pm and was up at 9, 11:30, 1:30, 2:30, 3:16, 3:57, 4:27 (and which point I began to feel slightly breathless with desperation), and then 6:37. At which point, we were up for the day.

Jess, I feel your pain. This baby slept like a champ as a newborn, only up 2-3 times a night, and it's been downhill ever since he became interested in everything (and decided he hated his Grobag). What gives with that?

Ladies, finding this thread has been my salvation. Many a night I've had to stifle giggles while reading it for fear of waking PFB, who was sleeping happily on my lap in the dark. Thank you from the bottom of my caffeinated heart for your wit and willingness to discuss just how miserable sleep deprivation really feels!!!

Adding to my woes: DH is just launching a new business so he's a) travelling 2-3 nights every week and b) too tired to help when he's here. So I'm literally on solo settling duty all night and all day. Never guessed I'd be a defacto single mum with entrepreneurial (read: absent and distracted) other half! Of course, when he does appear to play with the baby, PFB reacts with total joyous glee! (Sigh.)

Raising a bar of mint chocolate in salute to all, especially those with more than one DC!

Edenrose

Eden and jess what you have there is 4 month sleep regression. It is a bitch. I think that was probably my worst time with dd when she also woke every 20-30 minutes to feed. It was hell. Don't let anyone tell you it is anything you have done though. It is just something a lot of babies go through and if they were OK sleepers before this point I think there is a fair chance they will go back to being OK sleepers until you reach 9 month sleep regression that is

I think at that age I would just try to ride that mo fo out with the help of large doses of medicinal cake. Others with smaller babies might have some more proactive advice though :o

Trying to keep up with everyone! Eden my DS3 sleeps on me if he's not on the school run (where he will fall asleep in buggy without fuss, used to sling him until 4 months.

Cat, hello, I'm here with third child who used to self settle and sleep until around 10pm and then in his cot for another couple of hours before cosleeping rest of night (still waking every two hours for milk) but now has decided not to go in his cot at all....
I thought my first two were bad sleepers but cute bundle as he is he takes the

Eden, much sympathy returned to you! I have read that the 4 month regression is made worse because the baby is simultaneously distracted from feeding during the day, so wants to feed more at night. I have resorted to feeding in a darkened room with white noise and a wrap or blanket over us both, that way my little wriggly man will sometimes get a decent feed in. It's horrible the watch him getting more and more tired and stressed but not be able to help!

Hear, how long did it last for you? It's been about 4 weeks so far and I'm getting desperate!

You're just coming out of it now, aren't you Hear? Her DD is almost 3yo

Four month sleep regression with DS1 lasted two...? three...? weeks where it was half-hourly wake-ups, only sleeping on me in between. Thereafter, he resumed his one to two hourly wakings, needing 20 minutes of holding after every feed before I could put him back in his cot. That was SHIT.

DS2's four month sleep regression was a much tamer week or two of waking for a feed every forty minutes then going back into his cot.

Now I've said that, I shall discover that that was just his dress rehearsal for the real four month sleep regression, just delayed slightly (he's five months now)

The swaddle is starting to get on my tits again. He's getting out of it again because he keeps insisting on growing (in 9-12 month clothes since he was 16 weeks old ). Can get himself to sleep brilliantly when arms are pinned; gets shitty and wakeful as all hell when he wrenches arms out and fiddles with his face. I ventured back onto the sleep board and got s recommendation for a swaddle that someone else found useful as a step-down under the same circumstances, so we'll see how that goes.

Bedtime. Let the battle commence!

Goodness, it's been busy here this afternoon!

Part way through settling DD to bed, think it's going to be an interesting one as DH wasn't v successful with the afternoon nap. She's currently alternating between 'silking' (going to use this as much as possible now!) and smacking me in the face.

Jess don't want to be the bearer of bad news but we never recovered from the four month regression....in fact things went further downhill for us since at least at that stage she could be resettled in her cot, if we do that now she wakes every 45 minutes. Having said that she was rubbish to start with - cluster feeding until 5am, gradually reducing until 1am by around 8 weeks, so hopefully you will be luckier.

Calm, when did your DS start refusing cot? I'm worried now, we've never managed self settling but do at least get a few hours to see DH at the moment...

I found four to six months the worst when the regression hit. We never had 20/30 minute wake ups so not nearly as bad as some others but he averaged about 6 wakes a night (from 1-2 pre-regression) which I found hard enough, especially if I was feeling unwell. Then randomly he slept through 2 nights one weekend and I hoped that was it but he settled back down to around 3 wakes and has unfortunately stayed with that since.

Some babies seem to come out of the regression and revert to their previous good ways but it wasn't my experience. Hopefully yours will be different

Hahaha elph! It's funny 'cos it's true right

Honestly the whole of the first year is a bit of a blur. Once I started getting more than 4 hours a night broken sleep things started looking up a bit

Raspberry this is quite recent: we went overseas for Xmas and since we got back he has not stayed asleep in the evening. It's quite stressful as like you say it is precious child free time with DH, plus there are little jobs to do most evenings that can't get done, especially if my DH is working a night shift. Maybe it's just a phase.... but I have a feeling some gentle intervention is needed for our sanity and the other DC. Hopefully you will keep your evenings anyway, I've not experienced this with my other two. Obviously you have the odd evening when something is bothering them, teeth or whatever but DS seems fine as soon as we pick him up!

I totally stupidly had 3 babies under age 2 for 6 months so actually deserved the years of Sleep Hell. Though now I think maybe it was genius to get all the Sleep Hell over and done with in a mere 4 years?

I think it's ok to boob a little 'Un to sleep. They really are all different. My DD (my pfb ) was boobed to sleep for every nap or slung for them and get to sleep every waking and every bedtime.for 9 months but was sleeping through the night from 3 months *

*this turned out to actually be terrible as it led me to believe babies were so amazing we promptly planned another. Once I was 8-12 weeks pregnant with the dts and DD 12 or 13 months old she Just. Stopped. Sleeping. So it's totally her fault she got her brothers so quickly.

Hear, my greatest fear is that my five-month-old will continue merrily on his four-month sleep regression, dig his new habits (boobs on tap!!) and never go back... I also feel somewhat betrayed by all of those well-meaning rellies who told me that babies' sleep patterns improve. Like, on a smooth, flowing trajectory! Not this two-steps-backward stuff...

Elph, when was your DS2 born? He sounds like he's the same age as my PFB, who arrived on 12 August. My DS loved his swaddle blanket until he discovered sucking his fingers, at which point the swaddle was off!!! Jettisoned. I'm not sure I've found anything else that will work; he hates his sleeping bag and likes to kick like a rabbit at night: both legs, rhythmic whacking. (Of me, of course.)

Attitude, thanks for the confirmation that this situation is totally normal (6-8 wakings per night, that is). Whoooo-eeee.

Dreaming, I'm going with 'genius!!' You'll be done with sleep deprivation all the sooner (if there is any cosmic justice). Crazily, I can't help thinking about a second even though we had such a hard time getting this little one here (third pregnancy, lost PFB's twin at 9 weeks and feared losing him, too) I'll probably never manage to carry another. So I'm definitely into boobing POn'O to sleep and riding out the regression!

Edenrose

Eden I'm so sorry for your loss, that must have been very hard. Enjoy the cuddles with your little one now. There will be time later for taking action if you need/want to and you never know, he may be one of those that pulls through.

Dreaming I'm going with 'a cautionary tale' . It seems so damn unfair that these babies can lull you into a false sense of security for a year and then decide sleep is for the weak!!

Can I ask your opinions on how bad our situation is for an 18-month old? I don't know if we are normal or bad (and it would be useful psychologically to know). We lie beside DS until he's asleep (usually around 8.15-8.30pm) then transfer him to cot. He sleeps there till about 1250am then wakes and screams. Take him out of cot and give him a bottle and he falls asleep again and one of us sleeps beside him for rest of the night in the spare bed in his room (co sleeping). He generally stays asleep from that point until 730-8am. We have a consultation with Sian (sleep consultant) today as we want to stop the nightly wake up for milk and also the co sleeping and not sure how to go about it...

That's it. I'm not hanging out here and saying it's fine anymore. Sleep is going from bad to worse here. DD (the 4 YEAR old) has had her second very disturbed night, up 2am-5am mostly (Wolf in bedroom nightmare. Again.) She woke DT the T who was up 2-4:30am and then DT2 fucking well woke up 5 minutes later. I have been a cow today and shouted at the dts an made them cry

Whhhhhhy did I come here and talk about how my lot were all sleeping?!?!!

Happy new year everyone! May it bring us all more sleep.

Much of a muchness here. I went on a 2-day trip for work and it felt like a luxury vacation, even with back to back meetings from 8 am to 10:30 pm. Currently sitting here with a throbbing headache induced by exhaustion, and a toddler napping on me.

Dreaming that sounds really tough, hope you get a better night tonight or if not at least a few hours to relax this evening. I Find it really hard not to shout when I'm tired and I only have one to cope with.

Eden so sorry to hear about your lost twin. Five months is little still, even if he turns out to be a rubbish sleeper it will get better.

This weekend I have realised that DD is having a total strike on naps in her cot. Put her down asleep this morning, she lasted three minutes before popping up again. She then kept going until 4 at which point she conked out on my lap for 45 minutes. Am hoping it's either separation anxiety or the fact she's almost walking as we'd been doing quite well with the sneaking into her cot and I was quite enjoying the two twenty minute breaks a day even if I was spending them washing up

Dreaming, sorry you have had a rough few nights. Hopefully things will improve very soon. Do you know what's brought about this fear of wolves in your dd?

Raspberry, I'm jealous that you had cot naps! Sorry they don't seem to be going well at the moment. I gave up trying to get ds in the cot during the day. I'd have to put him down asleep and 9 times out of 10 his eyes would spring open as soon as he touched the mattress. On the rare occasion I did get him down it was lovely to have that time to myself. I usually spent it pottering around tidying upstairs

Hope everyone has a better night tonight.

Because you LUFFS us Dreaming! And we feel so much better when you're having a shit time of it because we can all go, 'Well, at least I haven't got twins/three/two with reflux.'

It sounds par for the course bordering on good for this thread Sunbeam. But one very good point that Elizabeth Pantley makes in No Cry Sleep Solution is that there is no 'bad' infant sleep. There is a wide spectrum of 'normal' infant sleep (which yours most definitely is) and there are the parents' responses and feelings towards it. If the latter is negative, that's where the feeling of Something Must Be Done comes in. So if you and your DP don't like the way things are, then your DS's sleep is as bad as its effect on you, IYSWIM. How did it go with Sian today?

Eden DS2 was 4 August When you've had one tough, non-sleeping baby, a second one is not NEARLY so bad because you have every coping strategy down to a fine art and you're (mostly) hardened to the sleep deprivation. You also don't sweat it, moider, stew, tear your hair and hate your never-endingly sleepless life because you know it will end, you know you're not going to die, and you accept that, actually, every nap with a baby in your lap parked in front of Netflix is a pretty sweet deal. It's when you do it the wrong way round like Dreaming (easy one first) that it bites you on the arse.

And YY to wanting to be violent towards those who falsely tell you that sleep improves on a steady trajectory. What a fecking con. I found a website with a table which, among other things, tells you roughly how long they should be awake between naps at what age - very handy and something I definitely stick to to avoid demon overtired baby. I have it bookmarked, but am thinking of getting rid of it for my own sanity because of the 'other things' on it - how long the longest stretch of night sleep should be (yep, lengthens each month to that magical, mythical stretch of 12 hours, which DS1 has never done and that DS2 doesn't even come close to), how many night feeds they should be on (DS2 'should' be on 0-1 night feeds, apparently. I don't think he got the memo ), how many hours of daytime sleep they 'should' be having and how many naps...the writer insists she breastfed exclusively and has worked with 'hundreds of families' who all managed this continuous improvement with her marvellous methods. I call bullshit.

Dd has never, ever slept the recommended amount. In fact her optimum number of hours sleep seems to remain consistently 1 hour less than whatever the text book says she should be having (this is what she is happiest with rather then what she actually does, obviously that would average at far less). I demand my hour! Ideally back-dated to her birth. By my calculations I am owed somewhere in the region of 998 hours.

sunbeam I agree with elph (as usual). I have certainly heard of worse sleep at that age but that's not really the point. It is a problem for you so that's what matters. Dd's sleep would be considered a huge problem for many but, while I would be thrilled if she suddenly slept in her own bed until 7.30 everyday, I'm not fussed enough to bother actually doing anything about it right now. This could change. I regularly move between riding the mo fo out and Something Must Be Done depending on circumstances.

I think that might be one of the least helpful paragraphs i've ever written :o

Dreaming I know how you feel but I am sure that the very rare shouting will not traumatise your DC. Give them lots of cuddles (and when you have figured out how make the guilt go away, tell me... I feel awful about the times I shouted at DS to go to sleep, or stop headbutting me instead of going to sleep, not the least because I don't know that I will never again lose it in that state.)