Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Guys, guys, guys! You fell off my 'I'm On' list! I thought the thread had died!

Success on the swaddle front - flannelette cot-bed sheet is bloody brilliant and it was in my drawer all along. He's not budging. Not sleeping either, mind, but at least I'm not having to redo the swaddle 47 times a night.

Huzzah, Poppy! Huzzah! Another life-member of the fAnn club!

Who are these people whose babies operate on a steady trajectory of dropping night feeds and sleeping longer and longer stretches? Do these people actually exist? What actually happens when they 'drop a feed'? Do they get woken up a bit later every few weeks and go, 'well, bugger me. Bang goes the x o'clock feed forevermore. Ah, the passing of babyhood...' AND WHY CAN'T MY OFFSPRING DO IT?? Seriously, we are still on one to two hourly feeds all night here with no sign of let-up. I've tried sticking his dummy in to try and space them a bit more, but all he does is suck on it noisily for twenty minutes, huff in an irritated fashion the entire time, then refuse to entertain it any further in favour of boob. If I'm still awake around 10pm I've been doing a dream feed of EBM in a bottle, but it pretty much never gets him past midnight.

Hi, Toby. What's your story? I'm ElphabaTheIdiot who was sure the second one would be a sleeper

Hi Elphaba :o

Baby DD is 10 months old, and has never slept for longer than 4 hours at a time (and that was one single time, when she was ill).

Tonight she went to bed at 7.30pm and I've just put her back in there after her 3rd waking/feeding so far. This will continue all night, with the exciting possibility that one of these wakings might last 1.5 hours, as has been the case the last few nights.

She's DC3, btw. Some of us never learn...

Elph welcome back!

Yes, definitely another fAnn. She really rocks, I can't believe how much she has achieved and how much she changed our lives. Only wish I'd done it earlier.

Those people are the same who bitch about their "early" 6:45am waking up time, after 12 hours sleep and claim anyone can have a good sleeper if only they were better parents

Toby both my DC was exactly like that.

DS was waking up every 20/30ms up to two weeks ago. My sympathies; it's truly horrendous. Are your other two sleeping well?

Puss it won't last. It never does. There's ALWAYS something in this house. Right now everyone has colds and DD is frolicking in the middle of the night.

Hello there! I was starting to wonder where you had all got to :)

We are having a bit of a be careful what you wish for moment. We put loads of effort into getting dd to go to bed earlier. Managed the amazing feat of moving bedtime from 9 to 7pm only to find she now wakes up in the middle of the night for ages and ages! It's too bloody early! I'm now trying to persuade her to go to sleep later as she is really not ready to drop the nap but obviously doesn't need all this sleep. Hoping we can find a sweet spot which will give us some evening but still have her sleeping through the night with only little wake ups (rather then hours of wiggling and prodding).

Thanks for the sympathy, poppy :)
My other two DC are great sleepers, given that they are 13 and 15 :o

I was right about last night. She woke up 6 times between 7.30pm and 12.30am. Then slept until 2.15am and then til 5.30am. So the second half of the night was quite good (for her!)
She was up for the day at 5.30am, though.

Hello everyone, a new desperate follower here. I'm sleep deprived and about to crack up regarding my 8m/o son who doesn't sleep.

I'm going to have a read through of the last 10 pages or so (will take me forever to read the whole thread) and hopefully I will stumble upon some words of wisdom.

Hello writer I posted on your recent AIBU thread.

I'll give you a Readers' Digest version of the last 10 pages:
FUCK I'M TIRED!
WHY DON'T THEY FUCKING SLEEP?!
Try Ann!
Yay! They're sleeping!

ARGH! NO SLEEP!

My DS1 and Dreaming's Terrible Twins are the Ann success stories. It looks like Poppy's DS is on his way to joining the Elite Sleepers.

I've gone and created another non-sleeper (15wo today - all I can think is 'one week until the four month sleep regression hits...kill me now...'). Hear's DD is a little minx who likes to taunt with occasional bursts of sleep brilliance only to go back to hr old ways with the slightest hint of a tooth. Peregrin's DS resisted Ann's sorcery and continues to cause trouble. Chocolate keeps going on holidays with her two non-sleepers. I don't know why either.

Love the synopsis! I've suddenly joined the something must be done camp. DD2 10 mo was sleeping reasonably ok but over the last month our mornings have been getting earlier and we've been getting more random wake-ups in the night which take hours to resettle. Not the worst case of bad-sleeping in the world but for various reasons Will not do!

Since sleep training many months back when DD2 was cast out of our bed, she's been shhh-patted to sleep. She was self-settling for naps but gave that up when she started standing in the cot. So I thought to get her to sleep better we actually need to do the 'retreat' part of gradual retreat, so tonight I decided to just sit a small distance away from the cot and shhh/talk to her instead of patting her. Didn't think it would be that much of a leap for her but, oh no, she screamed blue murder and took 1.5hours to go to sleep.

Too true Elph! In yet another moment of madness we stayed with friends for a night on Saturday which has resulted in DD1 waking up 2/3 times the last couple of nights after flipping WEEKS of sleeping through (bar 1 night as below). When will we learn?!

DD2 continues to segue between colds and teething bless her. About a month ago she did manage a 5 hour stretch one night. Which obviously was the one single night when DD1 woke up screaming every two hours.

Usually we're on 2 hourly wake ups with DD2. I can just about handle those if she has a quick feed and goes straight back down. Its the nights when she's awake for an hour or more each time that really kill me. Sigh. At some point I'm probably going to have to Do Something. She's still in our bedroom which almost certainly doesn't help and no doubt the fact that I immediately try and feed her back to sleep out of sleep deprived desperation isn't exactly encouraging her to sleep through.

First I'm going to have to find some energy and willpower though... Anyone know where I might have left them? I would try Ann but I suspect there would be a fair amount of being told what I already know...(and have completely failed to actually do

Hello, welcome and sympathies to Toby and Writer. Pull up a chair and make yourselves comfy - I'd offer some advice but frankly I'm only really an expert on surviving on bugger all sleep for three years (it involves chocolate in industrial quantities)

Chocolate I nearly didn't bother contacting Ann because I didn't think she'd tell me anything I didn't already know. I was wrong and I wish I'd gone to her months earlier.

Well, DS2's just had a dream feed of almost 6oz of EBM. He'll either sleep until 3am or I'll be cleaning up puke in 10 minutes.

Night all.

chocolate, your DD2 sounds exactly like mine!

Last night was better, though. She woke at 10.30pm, 1.10am and 5am, then went back down til DH's alarm went off at 6.30am.

Glad you had a better night Toby. DD1 woke three times again, not sure if it is cold related or what is going on. DD2 was up a few times, I don't bother counting or looking at clocks anymore though so I'm not sure when or how many! She had a lovely lie-in till 8.45 to make up for it the lucky thing! Still I'm eternally grateful that DD1 is not an early riser so at least I didn't have to crawl out of bed until 7.30.

How did it go Elph? I know what you mean about Ann, I just know that there are certain things I should at least try before bringing in the experts - i.e. stop feeding her every time she wakes up and sort out her disastrous naps (not going to happen until she drops to a single nap unfortunately, else we'd never leave the bloody house!). And they'd probably tell me to lose the dummy which I'm not prepared to do yet! Hey ho.

No puke, but awake at midnight. Again. God help us if he cracks the two hour mark. I stuck his dummy in. Slept til one. Stuck dummy in again. Slept til two. Considered sticking dummy in again but boobs were exploding so fed. I swear to God he falls asleep initially without the dummy from textbook wide awake. Hand on heart, I don't even need to be in the room. So why the Jeff he needs the bastard thing to get back to sleep at shit o'clock and every hour thereafter I don't know. Keep telling myself to try Pantley Pull-Off on the dummy now, but it's just easier staying put, reaching over and sticking his sucky friend in.

Yes Chocolate - I made sure I got rid of every sleep-prop I could before starting with Ann so she wasn't having to tell me stuff I knew like no feeding to sleep or back to sleep, no getting him to fall asleep in one place such that he woke up in another, no TV before bed, attachment toy in place etc etc. It's probably what helped with our successful outcome as the only thing we needed to ditch was the co-sleeping.

Ah more new people! Welcome to no sleep club :o

How did the dream feed work out elph? They never had even the slightest effect on dd even though everyone I know swears by them.

I will not be getting rid of dd's dummy at night or completely stopping cosleeping anytime soon chocolate. I do accept though that this means dd is not going to suddenly become a super sleeper any day now. Mind you now she is 2.5 the dummy is only a problem when she losses it down the side of the bed and then I get summoned to retrieve it

Mind you I have suggested to dh that we ask for a grow clock from dmil for dd for xmas. My plan is to use it to reduce the cosleeping. So rather then time it for getting up time have it set for when she can come into our bed. We would maybe start it as early as 1am and then slowly set it later. We had a lovely period when she came through about 5.00 for a bit of cuddle time in the morning (we are up at 6am), which was just about right for me. I would like to get back to that.

We have also decided that now she is going to sleep at a reasonable time we're feeling ready to give the gradual retreat a go again. Sat next to the bed last night and it went pretty well though I did still give her lots of cuddles.

Chocolate I still had loads of props when I got in touch with Ann; I knew the night feedings, the co sleeping etc weren't helping but I really didn't have the energy to do anything about it.

I think her program made the whole thing feel achievable (we only did the 3 week one) and it helped we got results so quickly. I'm evangelic about Ann

Elph I totally get what you're saying; it's just easier to do what it takes now and grab some sleep. God knows we need all the sleep we can get.

Toby, you have a 13yo and a 15yo and they SLEEP! Why did you do this to yourself, woman? Did you miss the sleepless nights?

I was smily wryly when you said she woke up 6 times but the last part of the night was good for her because she slept 3 hours. It's crazy what these children do to us right?

Hear DD (same age as yours) is obsessed with dummies and she only gets them for sleep, but she adores them. She puts them in her mouth, wears them as rings between her fingers and generally strokes them and looks at them fondly.

The night summonings stopped when we got her a little Ikea flexible soft box with about 16 dummies inside. She receives the box during the bedtime routine, just as we're saying "night night" and she falls asleep with one in her mouth and one in each hand, just in case .

Everyone in this house has the cold from hell so no sleep to be had. and next week DS is going for his MMR, so I'm guessing that will make for fun nights too. We'll never sleep, will we?

On a separate note, DD just had her settling in sessions at the nursery and seems to be doing ok. Yay! Thanks for talking me through that one, everyone! Still not talking though. Am now considering speech therapy.

Hear I give a dreamfeed if I go to sleep around 10 - it means I get two hours before midnight. If I don't give it, he'll wake up and want feeding at 10:30ish, right when I'm in a deep sleep which is a bear. A dreamfeed got him through to 1am once and once it even got him through to 2am! If I'm in a sensible mood and try and go to sleep when he does, there's obviously no point in a dream feed as I'd be waking myself up to give it to him.

Rubbing my hands in anticipation of jabs next week. His first round resulted in two night wakings only. DS1's four month jabs gave me the best pre-Ann sleep he had - IIRC, it was one wake-up. Best get the cabbage leaves chilled...

How's your mum doing' Hear?

I think that's a cracking idea with the GroClock, BTW, Hear!

Hello all you in No Sleep Club.

I may have cracked and had DT the T in with me last night.

We had a UK (centreparcs) holiday for 4 nights. One hour from home. That was more than enough as they don't sleep on holiday. Any of them.

We got rid of bedtime bottles pre-Ann. Though none of mine.have had a dummy. I was anti dummy for DD who sucked her thumb from 5 weeks anyway and couldn't persuade the terrible twins. dt2 is a finger sucker. DT the T sucks nothing and I'm sure contributed to his non sleeping especially as they recommend dummies for refluxers

I'm totally anti-dummy. I wish DS2 was and would discover a thumb. It would be so much easier. If I've got him on a back-carry in the sling, I have to try and get it into his gob with a pair of kitchen tongs when he starts getting tired and wailing. Total PITA and nigh impossible if he's really off on one. Car trips are hideous as he screams his tits off for entire journeys unless he's in the front seat staring at me and sucking furiously. I live in terror of leaving the house without a dummy.

I'm doing the sensible thing tonight and going to bed early. Got a cracking headache, but nothing that co-codamol and a good night's sleep won't cure...oh...guess I'm stuck with it then.

I have to try and get it into his gob with a pair of kitchen tongs when he starts getting tired and wailing.

This made me snort like a bastard :o

Me too, really sorry elph but that was hilarious. I have an image of you trying to achieve this now with the tongs! If it cheers you up DD is still a chronic thumb sucker at age 4. The dentist already said she can tell she's a thumb sucker from her teeth so if she needs expensive orthodontal work I'm going to feel a bit shit about that. Let that cheer you up while you're rooting round searching for the plastic boob-impersonator from hell. And my DD is still in the front seat.... (still rear facing before anyone tells me it's unsafe- she's way safer than most)

Yeah, I had braces for three years thanks to my decade-long habit of finger-sucking. Dummies aren't brilliant for teeth either, though, but he certainly doesn't use it continuously. I really don't want him to be one of those kids with a dummy stuck perpetually in his face.

I was dead chuffed about my kitchen tongs trick I dangle the dummy from one of those clip and strap things you get to clip them onto clothing and into his gob using a hand or wall mirror or the selfie view on my phone to see what I'm doing. He looks like he's playing that party game where you tie apples onto strings and hang them off a broomstick

Oh my goodness elph! The image I have in my head right now has made my day :o

I'm afraid that as soon as it was clear that dd was an excessively sucky baby I shoved a dummy her way. I really, really didn't want her to start thumb sucking. I sucked my thumb as a child and still remember how awful it was having to try and stop. At least with a dummy you can just remove the temptation when the time is right. You can't take a thumb away when it starts mucking teeth up or they get a bit old for it. I have never really got why people think thumb sucking is better then managed dummy use.

Yeah, all right hear I've got it now!!! (joking!)
But all joking aside a dummy was never going to cut it when there was a thumb there all the time from 5 weeks. In the Night The day would have fallen out and been replaced with the thumb. How I long for the throw away possibility of a dummy now. And I was worried about constant dummy sucking but I don't know why really as I would just have limited it

Oh, and in other news elph I have officially done 5 hours paid work since March now. though one hour this week was a double with another physio with a recent ish CVA patient and was ace. Just not v regular now so I'm in catch 22 of no work so no childcare, no childcare so no option to accept work. Hmm.

What? !?! my phone has autocorrected even more weirdly than usual- *in the night the dummy would have fallen out and been replaced with a thumb