Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

That's a good point dreaming and I apologise profusely. I am actually rather partial to some really dark chocolate. We have a local place that does 95%, it is awesome. I think I was just in a state of shock and thinking of the slightly odd sugar free milk chocolate you can get. Never liked it myself.

I don't think I've tried hemp milk either. Might give it a go.

You can get dairy-free 'milk' chocolate as well. I think they substitute the milk with a lot of oil. Suffice it to say, the 'mouthfeel' (to bandy about an industry term) is a little off-putting.

Oh yes, I know the stuff elph. Yuck!

Just realised I haven't mentioned dd's latest. Over the weekend she decided that she hated her bed to an amazing degree and wouldn't go anywhere near it. We ended up reaching a compromise that involved her spending 3 nights sleeping on cushions on the floor next to her bed. I can see the catsbum mouths of the sleep police glaring down at me while I write. But, it did stop us going back to full on cosleeping, so it could have been worse (desperate if pethetic attempt to secure a silver lining)

Dh persuaded her back into her bed tonight but she has already got up once so I'm not holding out much hope for a long and sleepy night

2 nights of bad sleep and I'm already back for a moan

Once you've experienced the bliss of better nights the backwards bits are tough. I think you did well not to cosleep hear I was in with dt the T from 12 til 4am. I'm going phase. (though dt1 was reflux issues last night I think)

Oh, I am sort of glad I'm not the only one suffering Dreaming, though obviously very sympathetic...really...I am...:o

I think my post made it sound better then it was to be honest, she still ended up coming in with us at some point in the night, we just managed not to start the night with her in our bed. Really, it's a small victory.

Last night was another awful one. Lots of intermittent crying and howling so no sleep for anyone until gone 3am. I had sort of forgotten how bad it is when they just wake up and cry at you every 20 minutes. Still, the last tooth finally poked it's pointy bits out by this morning so hopefully we are on the final stretch.

I have a small suspicion that I am deluding myself, but I maintain that dd will sleep perfectly once all her teeth come through and I refuse to listen to anyone who says otherwise

Where has everyone else gone? stitch, chocolate, please! Are you all sleeping? :o

If it's any consolation I'm still not getting more than two hours at any one time, but DS2 isn't yet at an age where I can moan about it being ridiculous. Sigh.

Well, I just spent my first 24 hours completely solo with both boys, including doing bath and bed last night all on my lonesome. I have learned that I would not only make a crap single parent, I would be a clapped-out disgrace of a SAHM within a week. Were I to have to manage both all day everyday:

• DS1 would subsist on a diet consisting solely of toast, cheese and tomato sandwiches (also toasted), baked beans and yoghurt.
• I would end up a hunchback from the continuous weight of a huge baby hanging off me, while also collecting ten bazillion conkers with DS1/loading unloading the dishwasher/picking up Duplo etc etc. DS2 is even more un-put-downable with DS1 around as, on the rare occasion he doesn't scream blue murder when I put him in a bouncer or on the floor, DS1 spread-eagles his full weight on top of him and says, 'Baby cuggles!' Cute, DS1, but baby is screaming and turning blue. So entire day in the sling it is.
• DS2 would never nap because DS1 senses the second he begins to go off and shouts, 'BABY, AWAKE!' and sticks his fingers in his eyes. Cue hysterical screaming wreck of a baby for much of the day.
• I would let DS1 nap past 2:30 every day because I'm too grateful for the peace and quiet, and too fucking shattered, to get him up haven't admitted this to DH who is currently trying to get him to sleep and not winning
• I would never get to go to the toilet during daylight hours

On a truly joyous note, however, I have found a spectacular recipe for a vegan Madeira cake. You'd never know it wasn't packed with eggs, butter and full-cream cow juice. Sadly, it rose so well, I welded a third of it to the roof of the oven The remaining two thirds are disappearing rapidly

sounds fun totally crap elph .... Though I think that diet would be fine :)

I don't mean I sleep all night normally. heaven forbid! Normally dt1 is up 1-2 times and always comes in at 5ish saying "my milk mummy? Your turn?" and I snarl not yet and put him back and cross everything. Sometimes between him. And DD I'm up maybe 4 or 5 times as dd shouts so loudly for me she wakes him then I can't get either back to sleep. i was in the verge of ringing Ann for a follow up. But occasionally now he is sleeping through so then I put it off. Last night we had both boys up in and off 12-4. DT1 in a real mess screaming and arching. Fun times

BUT thank god they're not newborns. Sorry elph

I forgot the digestives. He'd get them too to shut him up for a bit of extra fibre.

Shouldn't the reflux be well and truly resolving itself by now Dreaming? I thought it usually sorted itself out by age 2?

I would be a crap sahm. The thing about parenting, I have realised, is that everyone is so busy telling you about all the joy and sunshine it will bring to your life they seem to forget to mention how incredibly tedious it can be. Boring and yet terrifying both at the same time, like flying or being on jury service.

Dd seemed a bit better today so hoping for a few hours sleep at least.

Hi all! We survived the holiday including two four hour flights without serious injury, illness or mental breakdown. Amazing!

Dreaming and Hear, sorry to hear about the backsliding, I really do feel your pain. DD1 is back to waking every night at least once and usually 2/3 times although thankfully will usually resettle very quickly and easily.

Elph, there was a very good reason I went back to work part time (from home) when DD2 was four months old. Work is way easier than managing a toddler and baby… its basically my time off.

Green and Blacks is an essential food source in my opinion, I have been known to snarl if OH eats finishes my chocolate.

We're still on several wake-ups a night here too with one or other child. I think DD2 managed about 5 hours last night but of course DD1 woke twice. I sent OH in the second time but she was having none of it and started wailing loudly so I had to get involved before she woke DD2. Both are very tired after the holiday, especially as we didn't land until 11pm and DD1 was awake the entire journey bouncing around the plane shouting "wake up Daddy" every time OH nodded off. I was very sympathetic obviously…..

Still, DD2 is now in the cot with the base all the way down and seems to be improving at managing to get to sleep without much involvement from me. If I do get tempted, I try to remember the hours I spent rocking DD1 to sleep only to have her wake up the second I put her down and start screaming again. I've gone all out for the dummy this time though and even got her a teddy to attach them to so she can find them herself in the middle of the night

She is definitely not as consistently an awful sleeper as her big sister though so that is something to hold on to!

Peregrin, I caught my MiL giving DD1 wine when she was barely one. Apparently she liked it?!

Still no improvement on the potty front although to be fair, we didn't have one on holiday. Thankfully we haven't had any nighttime pottying for a while either although its still in her room as otherwise she just does a wee on the floor… Am also taking the head in the sand approach that it will just happen one day when she is ready.

Yeah it will chocolate . no point sweating it over potty training I reckon. I mean seriously, how many 10 year old are in nappies?!

elph most reflux has settled by 18 months the paediatrician said. DT1 was changed up from ranitdine to omeprazole at 22 months and when I stopped his domperidone due to issues giving it we did go back to some increased vomiting and the paediatrician restarted it a couple of months ago. Now it is very well controlled on the meds if I don't fuck up and give banned substances Easier said than done sometimes. Not quite sure what the issue was last night. I forgot to syringe all the bits he didn't drink in so we re gave his omeprazole and it was better from then. And he didn't actually vomit despite being uncomfortable so that's improving. Maybe this time next year it'll be gone? ! I think they are hoping he'll be ok by school age and at an early paeds appointment when I was worrying all I did was syringe meds down his neck she said not to panic about giving so many and not to expect to be off them by 2 with him so I try not to worry about it. He is 2.5 now though.

Seems ok tonight though. All quiet on the western front. Dare I hope?!

Glad to see you all back in one piece chocolate I was starting to organise search parties :o

Your poor dd dreaming. I agree that you shouldn't feel bad about giving him the meds though! What's the other options? To leave him miserable and in pain? You are doing the best you possibly can for him. :)

We aren't really sweating potty training and dd is just getting on with it really. She wears a nappy if she wants one and doesn't when she wants to be nappy free. She is steadily increasing nappy free of her own accord and is nappy free most nights and most of the day when at nursery or at home. She still wants one when out and sometimes if she is feeling tired or a bit poorly.

We have to occasional accident but our carpets are grim anyway so it's not a problem. Strangely she has only ever wet the bed once and that was when she was ill. Typical of dd to be dry at night before she dry in the day. She always like to do the milestones backwards just to confuse me

Exorcism. Has anyone approved exorcism for colic?

In other news, he's outgrowing 3-6 month old clothes at the age of seven weeks. Maybe all the screaming's making him oedematous. Or I'm lactating clotted cream.

[Replaces earplugs] Laters.

hmm. I'm going for the cream option elph. Now is a bad time to announce I no longer believe in colic Actually maybe I do. dd used to scream for about 3-4 hours in the evening between about week 5 and week 9. I thought that was bad and 'colic' so maybe it does exist. The good news is after that she started sleeping. Like up every 90 minutes to 2 hours to 8 hours in one night to sleeping through 7-6 within 2 weeks. I thought it was my amazing bedtime routine and calm presence until I had the twins. That learnt me

Seriously though. Sounds really tough elph. Constant dts screaming made me feel utterly miserable and exhausted not to mention the miles of pacing. I take it the dairy free hasn't helped. Dare you take out soya too, or try him on a formula that's suitable and express through the experiment?! That's a ridiculous suggestion but I can't think of a better idea, sorry. its reminded me to try and sell my shit hot breastpump though

Oh and all 3 dc slept through last night. DT1 us doing miles better but my good sleeper, dt2 has taken the baton. FFS.

You hush your mouth about the formula, Dreaming! MIL suggested putting him on formula last night, when she witnessed the screaming and bucking at the boob. I may have been a little patronising in my tone when pointing out that, in trying to rule out CMPI, cow's milk-derived formula would only make it worse. (She put DH on formula after three weeks of BFing because he 'needed more' ) It would be the easy way of ruling out soy, but might cause other upsets. If I can get dairy and eggs back, I may have greater fortitude with soy elimination.

No, dairy exclusion doesn't seem to have made a difference [quietly triumphant]. I'll see out this week and have that mocha with whipped cream on Friday for my mad celebration dairy challenge. If there's no major changes, I'll have a nice cheesy omelette in a few days to test eggs.

Saw the GP today for my/DS2's post-natal check. The GP was a slightly arsey cow (probably because she was one of the GPs I complained about many moons ago when she told me I didn't need to bother feeding off the affected side when I had mastitis ) and seemed sceptical about reflux because DS2 is such a thumping whopper. She can't prescribe ranitidine so referred DS2 to a specialist, while also suggesting I start him on Gaviscon, not quite comprehending my concerns about how the hell I get it into a demand-fed baby, who feeds about twenty times a day. I haven't the faintest clue how I'd get it into him, TBH, as he's only just barely tolerating a bottle, and I can't exactly see him being enthusiastic about something all forrin like Gaviscon. I'll try it, in order to prove that it will fail, and hold out for the specialist appointment.

Yay yay to the triple sleep-through! You're going to have to change your username soon

Nah, not yet. Only the 4th one ever. No repeated yet, natch

My DT1 is equally as intolerance to dairy as soya, that's why when I was triumphant he wasn't dairy intolerant it came back to bite me in the bum when the dietician just made me do it properly without all 3. Now that took a month but made a ginormous difference. sorry... but I bet it's what your specialist will say too. Plus it's bollocks GP can't prescribe ranitidine. Mine did. its not out of their code of practice. Some just aren't comfortable doing it which is a different thing. Gaviscon. In a syringe. kind of squirt it in while latching/latched then sort latch out. Royal PITA.

We did less water with it than recommended too or the dts just filled up on that not bm

It is literally impossible for me to manage/tolerate life both soya and dairy free. I would have to make my own bread because all commercial bread has soya in it. Going out with DH and DS at the weekends would become a soulless and joyless experience because I wouldn't be able to eat out (on the off-chance it's vegan, it'll have soya in it) or have any kind of hot drink while I mournfully watch them eat cake as cafes only have soy as a dairy alternative. If I'm too shattered to cook, DH can't, which means it's takeaway, and the only dairy-free takeaway is Chinese i.e. tofu i.e. soya. If I need to chuck something together from the freezer at short notice, all non-dairy vegetarian stuff is made with soya protein. THAT SHIT FOLLOWS ME WHEREVER I GO!!! It's all very first-world-problems, but we are always out all weekend and packing food to take with me on top of everything else is just really awkward and getting depressing.

Yeah - that same GP wouldn't prescribe my mum a certain unlicensed painkiller. Mum changed to another GP in the same practice and got it no problem. She's obviously just jumpy.

Can I mix Gaviscon with EBM or does it have to be CBW? If it has to be CBW, can I just pour it straight out of a kettle which has, at some point, been boiled, or does it have to have been recently boiled and decanted into something sterile to cool?

I can imagine elph which is why my only fairly useless suggestion was for you to pump to maintain supply but trying a suitable prescription formula given the stats on links between dairy and soya intolerance (I forget, but its around 30-40% of dairy intolerant are soya intolerant). I was convinced DT1 didn't have a dairy issue for months because he reacted equally badly to the soya I had instead. I couldn't bare cutting out the soya too and only lasted 3.5 months dairy, soya and egg free and I'm not even veggie any more. My friend currently has a baby with dairy and soya intolerance and she's veggie and has basically gone hardcore vegan. Except she can have the odd bit of tofu and her baby does tolerate that. There are some dairy free and soya free breads in Tesco. None in Sainsbury. Bare in mind with me though I really regret being so diehard EBF as I think if we gave formula earlier it would have been more obvious so speeded up diagnosis and avoided the weight loss, feeding constantly, bed phobia, some of the sleep issues we had which I do think having a child with quite severe reflux not treated properly until he was 15 fucking months old didn't help . Do feel free to totally ignore this though

I mixed Gaviscon with whatever came to hand first various things but have no idea if it made it less efficacious (is that a word?! looks totally wrong!) . I was a bit slapdash! They got it in. Somehow And isn't it bad- I started so strong. Both boys prescribed Gaviscon for reflux aged 15 days.... How did it go so wrong from there?!?!

I totally value your suggestions, Dreaming - they are preying on my guilty conscience, in fact! I do have in mind how I could manage dairy/soya/egg-free (eat like a caveman, basically) but the whole thought just makes me so miserable and, TBH, DS2 is not that bad in the scheme of things and I do think he's settling without too much intervention. He's actually let me hang up laundry while sitting in his bouncer two days in a row. The night time pooing has stopped and the day time pooing seems to be settling. As long as I've kept on top of his naps, we haven't had much day time rage. We still get some evening screaming but that goes as soon as we put him in the bath with DS1 and start the bedtime routine. I don't want to admit this in sleep-club, but he goes down sleepy-but-awake in his cot every night then will do a four hour stretch I've fucking done it now, haven't I? although be awake every 1-2 hours after midnight. The puking has also subsided considerably, although I do end up with around one chunky white corsage each day. He does hiccup a lot, he bucks and rages during some feeds, he screams for a while after some feeds, and for the most part, needs to be carried all bloody day. But he is piling on the weight. I'm very torn about whether to even try the Gaviscon (it's sitting in a box on the kitchen counter...) I'm acutely aware I might just be medicalising normal baby behaviours in my terror to avoid another non-sleeper.

Oh, why can't they come with display screens to tell you what's going on?!

Oh, and I've put up a new pic of my boys which I call 'Laurel and Hardy'

The thing is elph even if he has got intolerances it might not be dairy, soya our any of the obvious ones. Nobody in their right mind would ever have suggested i give up oats but sure enough they turned out to be causing as much problems as the dairy. I only discovered it by accident.

I think what I'm saying is that if its really not that bad then there is no point making life miserable when you could end up just giving up anything on the off chance he has a carrot intolerance.

Relax! Enjoy your washing hanging :)