Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

I could totally live with a carrot allergy, though...

Back on the dairy yesterday and DS2 has been a beast today and hasn't had a single nap longer than about 20 minutes even in the sling. If he keeps that up for the next few days, I think I'm going to have to eliminate again [weeps]

Where has everybody gone?

Peregrin How is Ann's programme going?
Chocolate What insane international trek are you off on this week?
Stitch Is Baby M still practicing his newfound skills at dark o'clock?
Bald Have you learned how to use a smartphone one-handed yet so you can join in again?

I'm clearly still here but distracted. Ill sister. Huge pulmonary embolism (blood clot in.the lungs). Out of the blue, she's not on the Pill so cause unknown. Her 'urgent' abdominal/pelvic CT to look for a cause will be up to 14 days away. She's in.and.out of hospital with issues with coughing up.too much blood, uncontrolled pain and severe breathlessness. Leaving do with dc tomorrow to go and see her.

But dt1 slept through again.

elph I tried to.add my.reply and it lost it and I lost patience. But our dietician said you have to start somewhere so.its normally soya dairy and egg due to.their links. Then after 4 weeks re challenge with each at a time. If ok. and still ? intolerance you eliminate all grains and repeat. etc. This is much briefer than my.original but I'm tired and not thinking straight! Here here for a carrot intolerance! and boooooo to an.unsettled baby. I was also going to say I could.ahve written your post about dt1. He lay on his back. He lay on his tummy. He banged on weight (until about 13 months then poor weight gain/loss) went from.9th centile born to 50-75th by 6 months. He was unsettled and 'colicky' but ok in arms if carried about constantly. I decided it couldn't be reflux. I remember asking you all about back arching and us all agreeing they all do it (they do. But not to his degree. He still does it to a 'normal' level). Ha.

sorry for rubbish typing.

Oh dear Dreaming Have they checked her for Factor 5 Leiden? That's often the culprit for ideopathic blood clots in younger women.

DS2 much more chilled today. Having a newborn existential crisis or something yesterday, obvs

Oh dreaming, what a shock for you all! Big hugs all round.

elph with dd when we eliminated dairy and it worked we knew about it. It was the same with oats, only then we had a huge improvement and then had to try and work out what we had stopped eating to cause it. There was no doubt after a week that things had improved hugely. I sort of think if you aren't sure if it's made a difference then it hasn't. dreaming may not agree with me on that one though :)

In other news it was my birthday yesterday, I stayed in bed and had a bacon sandwich. It was awesome! Also, I have an interview tomorrow. Argh!

elph I doubt it. Pretty shite all round. Pitched up with shortness of breath and chest pain via an ambulance- and she's a doctor avoided so clearly major for her- and told it'd be musculoskeletal and had a chest xray and sent home. She was in agony and vomiting in A&E. Got 15 minutes away on her way home. Rung urgently to come back as chest xray not clear. And the saga began with too many awful bits (and outing myself bits) to go into. Culiminating in only one doctor 3 days after initial diagnosis twigging there's no obvious cause and finally ordering the extra scans my dh has said she's needed from the beginning. As far as I understand as she will now be on warfarin for 3-6 months (likely 6 as its a flipping whopper) she can't have a thrombophilia screen until she's off the warfarin?? We will push for it though if no other cause is found.

Hmm hear it was so obvious after 2 weeks with DT2 but took the full month to really see a change with dt1. Much less obvious wierdly enough, especially as he is very intolerant?!?! Go figure.

At least he's a chilled baby again today. Hurrah! Now stay that way please, or minielph#2 you will be made to be a fAnn.

*doctor-avoider

I think Factor 5 Leiden would show up even when on warfarin, but I could be wrong. It does seem odd that if she rocked up with chest pain, severe SOB, but no temp they should have done a VQ scan in addition to a chest x-ray straight off. Must have been a big bastard for it to be seen on x-ray. Well, thank God it was caught. Mum had a massive PE when I was doing third year exams at uni. As I was exiting the ITU to go to my sociology exam, they quietly wheeled the resus trolley in so I wouldn't see it. So glad I didn't find that out until after. She's on warfarin for life, but she has other health issues as well that mean they'd rather she stayed on it.

On the is it/isn't it dairy front, he was pretty good again today (minus the uncontrollable screaming which is a fixture of evening meals) and his poos are remaining manageable - none overnight (hurrah) and two or three during the day. The continuous leak seems to have stopped, which I'm guessing would have been one of the first things to fall apart if it had been the dairy. I reintroduced eggs at dinner tonight so we'll see how we go, although if he's difficult tomorrow, I'll be blaming the vaccinations he had today. He's got his big brother's method of taking Calpol i.e. dribbles it all down his chin instead of swallowing, so if he does feel crap he's only got himself to blame.

Happy birthday Hear! Good luck with the interview.

My lot tag teamed me to have me up 6 times last night. Little toads!

Happy birthday hear! What did you do for it? I hope you ate cake as a bare minimum.

Has DD got back on the wagon since tooth-gate, Hear?

Only two wake-ups between 7:30pm and 7:50am from DS2 here! (Sorry Dreaming) Gotta love vaccinations - I seem to remember the second round of vaccinations had a similar effect on DS1, then the bastard four month sleep regression hit. DS1 woke up once, but he's DH's department these days.

Cot naps are my current nemesis I've lost count of how many hours I've spent kneeling next to DS2's cot in his room although my knees and back probably have a pretty good idea to get him to fall asleep in his cot then stay asleep. He'll lie there quite happily, which I suppose is a start, but he'll literally sleep in two minute bursts then start boring eye-holes in me or his mobile again. I suppose the fact that I can't do it for every single nap, or even everyday, or at weekends is a factor, but can anybody seriously do that!?

Afraid to say that we have ended the programme without having mastered cot settling, despite an extension. DS fell ill again to mark his first birthday, and was screaming in my arms from 7:30 till 1 am with brief interludes of a few minutes. By this point he has screamed so much that I might as well have left him to it back in August to see if it would really improve after those fabled three days..

Tried night weaning as well, DS was a complete mess, desperately clingy during the day and wanting to nurse all the time (then illness struck and I was not going to deny him breastmilk, so we are back where we started).

Am I too much of a wimp? I have had DS sob with every last ounce of his strength for what felt like an eternity...

Dreaming sounds awful! And a 14 day wait for an urgent CT? :(

Elph hats off to your skills.

Hear happy belated birthday!

Peregrin The way I night-weaned and feeding-to-sleep-weaned was by 100% co-sleeping for the whole process. He'd come straight into bed with me after his bath and we'd cuddle and, yes, he'd rage, but I knew it wasn't because he was feeling neglected or lonely. He literally just wanted boob. I repeated this process several times in the night and it really was sorted within a few nights. He also took a lot less time than I had anticipated going back to sleep with a cuddle but no boob. Pantley Pull-Off and/or reducing the length of night feeds over time or (even more laughable) offering water were useless for me. I'd done this long before we ever started with Ann, so the only issue we had to get rid of was the co-sleeping. Maybe give this a go then try again with the techniques you got from Ann once he's night weaned? You may report back here as needed as we're extremely experienced hand-holders in this fred.

Yes, you do need to toughen up to do this, and I think you need to try and be as objective as possible about your DS's response to it. Is he really being clingy because of doing this? Or is he being clingy because of the resulting reduction in sleep? Or is he teething? Or are you reading his behaviour like this because you feel really guilty for having done it? (I have definitely done this myself which is why I'm being cheeky enough to suggest it!)

I, of course, am suggesting this from my lofty Gina-Ford-like perch of lying in bed with DS2 who has just fed to sleep and is snuggling here snoring away because I really couldn't face another second of kneeling on the floor. Fuckit. I'm comfy, it's freezing, I have a new iPhone 6 and he hasn't had a proper nap all day because of my messing. Can anyone bring me a coffee and some shortbread?

Elph, thanks, and I am ready to accept that I might possibly be reading things into his behaviours in the realm of theory :). However, we have had many most nights with reduced sleep for various reasons, and he doesn't generally behave like that. Thinking back to it, he was a bit like this when we were working on breaking his feeding to sleep association, and also when I started leaving for work full time. Generally lost his sparkle, and he would alternate between clinging to me, crying when I'd put him down, and being withdrawn, his lips set tight and looking away from me.

We also night weaned by fully cosleeping peregrin . No way could I have tackled both at once. So my dh did take him away to my mum's caravan for 3 nights 7pm-7am but he slept with him there and then after that I slept with him.

I maintain that until DT1's reflux was better I couldn't have done anything much about his sleep. How is he with reflux pain??

elph the wagon had well and truly rolled on without us and is lost in a cloud of dust as it disappears into the distance. Dd's bedtimes are so awful just thinking about them depresses me too much to talk about it.

I think we are back to riding the mo fo out again for a bit as I just haven't got the energy. Just getting her to start the night in her own bed is a major victory at the moment. It's just infuriating that after all the work out can just go to shit so easily.

Anyway, on happier news, I got the job! :) though as it is not at all medical related I still won't have a bloody clue what you guys are talking about half the time :o

Oh, just because I like to be different I started dd sleeping in her bed for a bit of the night and then weaned. She got her own bed at 12 months and then I weaned at 18 months. I fed her to sleep pretty much up until she weaned. I do think you need a good amount of time between the two though, whichever way around you do it, or it is going to be really hard.

Last post! Just to say weaning didn't make every a smidgen of difference to her sleep. It was just as crappy. It did stop me having chunks bitten out of my nipples though, so that was nice :)

10 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think there are enough exclamation marks to express how I feel.
I got a good eight hours of sleep myself. Broken, as I kept waking up when DS moaned a bit (then put himself back to sleep), but OMG. I don't remember the last time I slept this much.

Tomorrow, of course, we'll be back to hourly wakings, but today I must celebrate.

He'd been poorly during the day and although he did not have fever in the evening, I loaded him up on paracetamol. I don't want to medicate him to sleep as a rule if it can be avoided, but I'll have to repeat the experiment.

Hear congratulations! Have you started yet? Is it full time?

[Crawls in, wild-eyed]

Never, ever admit to a good night's sleep in sleep club! [Shakes gnarled staff]

Between the two of them, the boys had me up every 45 minutes last night. As always, DH has caught the vomiting bug DS1 had on Monday, so he's quarantined to a separate bedroom and bathroom. So I was left to see to both of them. Naturally, DS1 decided to have the most awful, disrupted night he's had since finishing Ann's programme - no fault of his, poor sausage. Since he stopped vomiting on Monday, he's been coughing continuously which was giving him (and me) grief last night. I also don't check DS2's nappy in the night anymore. Had I done so, I'd have discovered he was wet from neck to ankle, which is probably why he was awake so many times

DH is still in the isolation unit (i.e. front bedroom) tonight so I'll spend most of today praying to all of the Gods for a better night tonight. I think I'll give DS1 some Piriton - not because it makes him sleep (it doesn't - I have tried) but I found it useful myself when I had a viral cough keeping me awake at night recently.

Wow Peregrin! Unfortunately, when DS1 used to do that to me, it was because he was warming up to give me some hellish nights. Hopefully, yours is more considerate and will sleep like that forevermore although you've scuppered your chances admitting it in this accursed place

Yay Hear They'll be after us for references soon then, yes? 'A bit of a hippy but a good sort' we shall say Boo to DD forgetting her manners. It must be the cold setting in. She wants back in the family bed.

Hello strangers.

I've been away because I've been having amazing, uninterrupted sleep for months. NOT!

DD is ok-ish, wakes up once a night a few times a week, but usually requires no intervention. I just need to hear her giggling and babbling over the monitor for an hour or two.

DS is a force of nature... still waking up every 20ms/30ms every single night. He slept for 3 hours straight once, with DH.

Just got in touch with Ann and fortunately it would appear she's taking new clients on, so we should have the initial chat this week.

On top of that, DD (2.5 now) is still only saying a couple of words, so that's another huge brain drain around here. Swing between thinking she'll get there in her own time and must intervene NOW. GP doesn't seem worried at all though.

Sorry to hear about your sister, Dreaming - how is she now?

aha! one I can help with. My dd also said almost nothing at 2.5. I have written down all her words in a baby book somewhere aged 27 months (2.25 I know but near enough) and she had 27 words including baa, moo and things like that. Didn't put any together. Around 2.5 or a little after she suddenly developed lots of words and was using them in sentences within weeks. Round here speech and language therapy have drop . in sessions. I kept meaning to take her and not getting round to it. Now she's just turned 4 and doesn't stop talking. She is not a poor speaker in her preschool cohort. My SLT friends said if they are making themselves understood and communicating, whether through signing, pointing, whatever that's good. Encourage words by eg not giving a spoon and seeing if they'll ask for one. limit TV and radio so they listen to what you say more easily. when looking at books they advised not necessarily reading the words but talking about the picture very simply like "tractor" "sun's out" but not saying ooh look do there's the sun peeking out from.from the cloud etc etc. I say totally no need to panic.

my boys don't shut up so you may never have this peace again ;) I do prefer it this way though, one less thing to fret about.

hear sounds dire

Elph you totally jinxed yourself. wishing you bug survival and some more sleep tonight.

peregrin yeah!!!! I never had 10 hours. or even more than 4 really til post Ann so I'm going to sit in the it's great camp Hope you feel better today and long may it last.

Dreaming, I could kiss you right now.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that, it's really reassuring.

Out of curiosity, are you still broody?

Just emailed Ann and we're having our first chat on Monday; keeping everything crossed. I can't believe he turns 1 in a few weeks and still not sleeping.

Hear congrats on the new job!

poppy dh's nephew was exactly the same. Barely uttered a word until gone 3, i think. He was very good at communication though and very able to get his needs understood, he also clearly understood what was being said to him and could follow instructions. He just didn't really see the need for actually speaking it seemed. I seem to remember that sil and bill got the same sort of advice as dreaming. They did end up with him going to speech therapy as he was quite a bit older, but now you would never know. He is 6 and talks as well as any boy his age.

Oh how horrid elph! It sounds like a bit of a nightmare. And coughs are the pits. Urgh.

The job is an internal secondment, so I nice risk free change of scene as I can go back to my current post of I don't like it after a year. Also means they don't really bother with references as I am well known as a general troublemaker already. I shall be sure to pass your details on though elph should it be required :o

Ah, Piriton! I wish I'd tried that when DS1 had the cough that lasted about three months when he was a baby. It nearly killed me (and, IIRC, was where I first received the advice to 'ride the mo fo out' which I believe caught on ) Cough-free night, although he's sounding a bit fruity again this morning.

Wow Poppy - every 20-30 minutes is hardcore. Everything crossed that Ann can sort him out. DS1 has a lot of words and lots of (very very very frequently used) sentences, but we're about the only ones who can understand him and some of his pronunciations remain utterly obscene. I don't think clock will ever be anything other than 'cock', shouted as loudly as possible, usually preceded by the word 'big'.

Elph was right.

Why, DS? Why?

Poppy, I have no words.