Stopping night feeds. Say something helpful.

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

This is partly a request for tips and experiences and partly a pledge.

DD is 1 yo. She bf to sleep at night.
Then wakes anywhere between 1 and three times, again bf back to sleep. I get that the feeding is a comfort.
I, of course am nearly dead from sleep deprivation/ disruption.
I am, from tonight going to stop night feeding. I'm going to initially drop any feeding before 1am, then move on to dropping any later feeds IYSWIM.
I'll be cuddling her, no CIO or cc, but no milk before 1 am.
Any tips?
I know I should like a wuss for doing it so gradually but she's only a baby after all.

Shocking night with poorly, hot DD.
Fed about 37 times.

V frustrating night. Didn't do dream feed but only as DD woke at 9.30 so I fed her then. She then woke at midnight for a feed and is awake again now. I know that's not horrendous but I just think that she should be able to sleep thru now she's having three good meals a day.

My other two DC were having bottles by this age so thinking about it I would more often than not try to settle them before feeding but DC3 is still ebf and if she wakes I'm feeding straight away. I'm so tired that I just want to go back to sleep as quickly as possible. I know I need to sort this ASAP as the longer it goes on the harder it will be to change. Grrrrr.

Hope your nights were ok and no DH's were murdered.

Oh no massive cross post. I take it back, my night wasn't frustrating after all..... Hope your DD feels better today TheRealAC.

No need to take it back. Itsall frustrating princess
We all just want some sleep.
Thanks and have one yourself

Amanda that's what I call a bad night hope you aren't working today and can get a bit of rest.
Our night was ok - 8-11 then up for ages due to me feeding to sleep which took forever then realised I had forgotten to change nappy from random late night poo so had to wake him up to do that and then repeat the feed to sleep .. Then I woke at 3.30 because he was shuffling but amazingly I dropped back off and so did he as he woke me at 5 - then up for day at 7. Feel so much better on the rare nights I get a 4 hours stretch. Very excited to be feeling human today as PIL have offered to baby sit for DH and I tonight - so we may venture out for a couple of hours!

Artemis the lady I spoke to is the one being recommended all over here at the moment - Ann Caird. Am just worried she must be having such a business boom at the moment she might not have time for mei f I need her again!

Hi all, hi AC - just popping in to say that I'm so confused by the whole 2 steps forward/2 steps back dance that DS (& I) are doing re. sleep. Every time we make progress and I stupidly get my hopes up he always seems to backslide during the next night. And tracking it via this thread was making me feel bad so I decided to stop posting for a few days. But I'm still lurking...and still wishing good sleep for all of us.

Btw, when I was typing in 'two steps back' it came up as 'two steps cack' and that is what I've decided to call this little sleep dance - The 2-step Cack. Because a big pile of Cack is what I feel like and look like from extended sleeplessness.

lots of

Bless you LauraPalmer. It's so frustrating isn't it. No cutting out dream feed again tonight as DD has woke, just in time for us to eat dinner with our old uni friends that have come for the night.

Am torn between 'she's only little still' and 'I must do something before these bad habits get out of hand'.

It's prob the least of my worries tonight though as we have 4 DC sleeping in DS's room tonight which should be interesting! !

and more it is Saturday night isn't it ? dH and I have been out for the 'evening' it was a 1.5 hour round trip and got home to a wide awake DS ..
Fingers crossed for sleep to all ..

Princess I am in a similar situation. Feed to sleep has in the past got me more sleep but now DD has taken to waking every 45 minutes it is killing me and making me hate BFing. Last night I decided not to do it. DP was out so I got my mum over for moral support and decided I was making the change, basically the tactic from NCSS that Amanda recommended. Unsurprisingly DD protested, cried in my ear on and off for an hour, it was 10.30 before she went down for more than half an hour, but then she slept until 2 when I fed her. I don't want to go cold turkey on night feeds as she's still little enough to need them but I need to make a solid effort to break the boob-sleep association before it breaks me. She took 2 hours to resettle as I wouldn't let her fall asleep feeding but we have had far worse nights. Tonight's been mixed, frequent wakings but not so much crying on the whole, am trying to stay strong.

Live that is the lady I was considering speaking to, yes I imagine she's working 24/7 at the moment and not getting much sleep herself! Her website suggests you need the full package to get a concrete plan so it's encouraging that you felt an hour phone call was enough to make a difference.

Amanda I hope your poorly girl is better soon.

Wishing everyone a peaceful night...

Hi.
Breaking the feed to sleep association appears o be the key.
And EP and Millpond talk about that.
So when DD is better I will be focussing on that by using the PPO and using additional sleep associations; singing, rocking...
I tried a comforter/ lovey. It neither of my DCs have taken to them tbh. They just use my hair

Tonight DD wouldn't feed o sleep. She fed and stopped and I held her until she fell asleep. Then she woke at midnight and I fed her. I've just given her calpol and fed again.
I have a matress on th floor in he room now and plan to just use emergency measures to get through.No, not working thankfully.

Sorry you're disheartened LP it is all very frustrating.
And Artemis I too am always in a dilemma about what's the best thing to do.

But definitely need to break the feed to sleep thng.
That, I believe, is key.

Good luck and good nights all.

Hi- lurking too, but been too tired to post. Funny that, as we are making progress - back to waking up just once for a quick feed around 2/3am. I tried to drop that again, but he just screamed the house down for over an hour. I'm ok letting him have a little cry, just not happy to leave him on his own. DS doesn't feed to sleep, but still needs a feed to get drowsy - IYSWIM. One day we'll get over that too. For now I'm happy with status quo. We've got here with a combination of pulling off, just letting have a little cry when cuddling and some gradual retreat. He settles himself after a feed and now during the night he settles without it, apart from the one wake-up. But I don't let him fall asleep on the boob then either - he protests for a little while, but then falls asleep holding my hand. Let's see how long that continues, I'm sure the next cold/set of teeth are just around the corner. Until then, I've promised to go to bed by 9.30 each night.

I hope you all manage to make good progress soon. Just a suggestion, in some areas HVs are trained by Millpond and local sleep clinics can be accessed through them. Some HVs even come and support you at home if you decided to go down the CC/CIO route. Worth asking them if you have a good relationship with them.

Scrumptious that's great progress. You're a star. Well done.

I just wish it didn't require so much effort

I'm opting out of all changes until DD is better. Off o the GP tomorrow I think because this fever and not eatin had gone on for a good 3 days.

Good nights to you all.

Hope you have a better night tonight. A trip to your GP sounds like just the ticket.
It certainly hasn't been easy, nor quick, but it does feel like we have turned a corner. Although he woke up with a runny nose from his nap today, so it could be short lived again

I had a similar issue and offered cold formula in a bottle. My ds1 quickly turned his nose up and the night feeds stopped. Just wish I had done it sooner. This time I know not to make the same mistake!

Amanda hope things improve soon. Illness is a nightmare.
dS unwell again ( or still )
I have just ruined a pleasant weekend by shouting at DH for carrying on watching TV when DS started crying - second wake up so far tonight. AIBU ? Probably...
Artemis if you go down the Ann Caird route I reckon you still need nerves of steel.
This is the most intense thing ever ...

Terrified tell us more... People keep saying try water etc - but is there a difference with some night wakings and these babies who think they need to feed to sleep ? dS seems to go ballistic quickly if not offered milk??

It was when he was around 6 months and was waking 2/3 times a night- although was eating plenty of solids and milk during day. I was desperate to wear off breast. He just had so little each time I thought it was for comfort. Some may not approve, but I had a few months before returning to a demanding job and needed to get out of the sleep deprived zombie state! Started with warm formula, he took little of that, and then when it was cold he dropped it fast, was good to see he wasn't hungry- maybe habit?

Just what worked for me... Ds2 is 12 weeks and we are feeding anywhere between 2-5 times a night..... I have it all yo cone again!!!

Thanks for the tip terrified

Sorry to hear about poorly DS living. DD seems a little better this ,morning .
I am definitely going to focus on breaking the feed-to-keep association. I think the NCSS thread is pretty good for tips. I do find it hard for some reason, to heap on the sleep cues IYSWIM.
Anyway we co- slept upon DDs first waking (12 is?) and it's definitely easier (short term) than getting up.
She's sleeping now, a beautiful snuggly bundle of cuteness.

Live is it actually working for you? Are you allowed to divulge any methods or under some kind of confidentiality thing? I'm just curious to know if there are different techniques in existence other than eg gradual retreat, PU/PD and the others i'm familiar with from reading far too many books... I guess the benefit of a consultant is having someone pick through the options and choose something that will work for your individual situation.

We were doing OK for a few nights with not feeding to sleep but last night it went tits up again. DD woke at 12 and got hysterical when I didn't feed her, so I gave in but didn't let her fall asleep, just spent ages rocking her instead. She then woke again at 4 and there was no settling her, feeding didn't even make her drowsy. I gave in at 5.30 and got up. Finally got her to nap around 7 by feeding her, I had no resolve left by that point. Unsurprisingly we are both tired and grumpy today! DP's contribution was to attempt to rock her for 5 mins around 5am then have a strop about how he had to go to work as though it was my fault she wouldn't sleep. I'm not impressed, he's not usually so unhelpful.

Amanda I hope your DD is OK. Will she take a bottle? Mine won't, or a dummy, so can't even try the cold formula trick!

Hi Artemis I would 100% recommend her based on my limited experience - but as I mentioned before you do have to be committed.
Whats limiting our progress is our own strength of resolve.. We are a bit without a proper plan at the moment because we wimp out. I need DH on board and DS ideally not ill.. Plan to get back on track this week.

If you go for it personally I would go for a full package unless you are feeling really strong!
She will ask you to do a sleep diary and tell her about your routines and parenting style and then put together a plan with you.
I imagine you would end up with a similar diagnosis to me - ie need to reduce the boob to sleep factor (no shit!!) - which it sounds like you were tackling really well at the weekend.
What I loved about her advice was that its step by step and she suggests seemingly small things that feel achievable.
Unfortunately at the moment the changes I have made haven't resulted in more sleep but I feel that she has given me a clear focus that I lacked before.

One thing she said which stayed with me was that how he gets to sleep at bedtime is very important - so we started on removing the feed to sleep at bedtime. She also indicated that feeding to sleep is one of the most powerful associations and therefore hardest to break! ( sorry all!)

Maybe PM me if you have other questions?
Hope she wouldn't mind what I have shared as I am a fan!!

I suspect I will need her again.

I'm not entirely convinced it's all down to feeding to sleep I have to say. I have friends whose babies feed to sleep and sleep through the night. Some just get it, others don't. I think there is a lot to say on how you respond to them when they wake up. And of course, some may have an illness at the heart of it - DS is allergic to dairy. His sleep was diabolical until it was discovered at 7,5months. It's been a slow ride since then to fix it.

Babyclarke is much better today thank you Artemis
yes she takes a bottle and I give her water sometimes, which sometimes works.
I too, am confused by the feed to sleep thing.
But I think I need to help her find ways of self settling.
I'm so rubbish at it though.
She hasn't be become attached to a comforter.

Tbh I fed to sleep tonight.
I'm just so tired and desperate for them both to go to sleep.
Now I ave to make their packed lunges. All I want to do is lie down.

Night all.

Lunches

Glad your DD is better Amanda - DS was fed to sleep tonight and woke up coughing just now so am currently feeding again. Aargh!
I kind of agree Scrumptious -my DD slept through from about 12 weeks with barely a glitch and I didn't even used to think about any if this stuff... But what I do know is that with DS I went for easy life and fed to sleep / sling fir naps / rocked to sleep and feel like he just hasn't learned how to do it by himself.. Not sure how much of that is him or me tbh.
Feel despairing today - bet Ann Caird will be wishing I wasn't associated with her name!!

I was wondering if I could join you? My ds is 14 months old and we are attempting to night wean him, I'm (newly) pregnant and ds likes to use me as a dummy fro most of the night, it is like he is half latched on constantly, I didn't mind until I became pregnant and now I just can't stand the feeling.

We started on Saturday night, we intended to follow jay gordon's method so still feeding for a short time and then patting/cuddling to sleep for the 1st 3 nights, then stopping feeding altogether the next 3 nights and then no picking up just touching and talking to the baby.

we were going to impliment the new rules between 10pm and 5am, I still feed him to sleep at 5.30ish and if he wakes before 10pm I feed him to sleep.

Saturday night was hard, he woke at 1.30 and cried on and off for an hour :( He was just furious not heartbroken or worried just really really angry, I had given him a quick feed and I felt that made things worse so we decided I wouldn't feed him again. He then slept until 6am.

Sunday night I fed him to sleep at 5.30, he slept all evening which is very unlike him, he woke once at around 3ish and asked for a cuddle rather than asking for boob, I cuddled him and he went to sleep in a few minutes and slept till 6 (12.5 hours with no boob I was very pleased with him!!)

Monday night he didn't really wake up he just rolled over and cuddled me, once he was in a deeper sleep I rolled him back into his space and he continued to sleep.

Tonight he hasn't woken (yet) I hope he has another good night. It seems like he really needed to night wean as he sleeps much deeper and longer now.

I felt terrible about the hour of crying, really really bad and once he was asleep I sobbed and I was dreading having weeks and weeks of crying but I really think it was the best choice for both of us in the long run. We still co-sleep but I love co-sleeeping and don't have any desire for him to be in his own bed yet, we have a cot bed attatched to our bed but with a side taken off so he does have his own space.

I havn't really thought about stopping feeding him to sleep, I wonder if I need to. We explain to him every evening in the bath that he is going to have bedtime boobie but if he wakes in the night the boobies are "all gone" and he can have cuddles but nio boobie, he seems to except this, he nods very solemnly

I think that I may be being lulled into a false sence of security with his night weaning so it would be great to have so others to share experiences with!