Stopping night feeds. Say something helpful.

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

This is partly a request for tips and experiences and partly a pledge.

DD is 1 yo. She bf to sleep at night.
Then wakes anywhere between 1 and three times, again bf back to sleep. I get that the feeding is a comfort.
I, of course am nearly dead from sleep deprivation/ disruption.
I am, from tonight going to stop night feeding. I'm going to initially drop any feeding before 1am, then move on to dropping any later feeds IYSWIM.
I'll be cuddling her, no CIO or cc, but no milk before 1 am.
Any tips?
I know I should like a wuss for doing it so gradually but she's only a baby after all.

I have just put DD in her cot
I wish I could sleep.
I can hear bastard birds singing and bastard dh breathing

Aaaand we're up.
DD is wide awake and toddling around the bedroom.
Thankfully DS is sleeping soundly.
DH is also sleeping soundly but I'm less cheerful about that.

Could it be that I need to work harder in the 430 feed?
I can handle her being up now, but not with the earlier wake up between 4 and 5.
Looking forward to struggling today tbh.

Amanda I really feel for you.
I know that feeling so well - I went through a hideous spell when DS was in our room of feeling murderous that DH could carry on sleeping and snoring his head off!
The worst times for me are definitely when I am up feeding and start mentally working out how much sleep I have had and how much more I can get.

DH bangs on about "us" being awake all night with DD And thinks I get "loads" of sleep at the start of the night But he's talking rubbish. I have to go to bed around 10 in order to get any sleep whatsoever. He's always in bed around 11 anyway. Waking up is so not the same as getting up FFS. Wanker! And he's still in bed while I'm doing breakfast, clearing up. My brain never rests and my body never recuperates. On the extmely rare occasions that I've had a lie in it's always after a lot of fussing around IYSWIM. He can't just get up and take them downstairs. It's all "oh, do you want me to get up with them and give them breakfast?" procrastination for an hour so I'm wide awake by the time the room has been vacated. I sometimes wonder if the complete lack of respite is going to have me in an institution. Hey HO. Thanks for letting me vent. I really appreciate it. How was your night?

Thanks but I am not sure i can take any credit - I think he got there by himself .
Sadly he does still rely on feeding to sleep in the night - I know 8 months is little but there is an ingrained pattern that's been on place since 4 months and nothing seems to affect it barring the odd 'anomaly' night.. I know night feeds aren't uncommon at this age but I need to reduce the reliance on feeding back to sleep. There is no other way of doing so in the night so DH can't help me at all - much harder to cope with now I am working .
I have had a phone call with a sleep consultant as I was too tired to think straight and she agrees that this association with feeding to sleep is strong ( I guess because it is natural) so I am determined to work on it gradually because otherwise I know every illness will cause me to to be sat up feeding all night..

Yes I'm with you on trying to stop that association. It's my current goal.
But it's just so tempting to let her feed to sleep.
I just want to get them both to sleep at night tbh.

Good lucky with the Pantley pull-off Amanda. I've decided to focus on that initially too.

Ooops I missed your earlier post - sorry but your descriptions of DH rage always made me smile on the other thread too! I had to have a bit of a crisis talk with mine this weekend as was getting really worried about how angry his lack of support was making me.
We are better now.
Last night was back to normal - fed at 11 ish and 4 ish then up at 6.45. Am noticing he needs longer and longer feeding at the moment to get back to sleep -so it's further incentive because I don't feel like its even working as well.
Hope you get through day ok.

So tonight I tried the PPO. Not great as she wasn't really awake but I managed to take her off before she came off herself IYSWIM.
Well, it's a gradual process...

Wishing you all a good night.

Sounds like a good start - I try to use it for night feeds though with varying success.
Predictably I jinxed myself by boasting about DS settling himself off to sleep - wasn't having any of it tonight. Fed to sleep. Ho hum.
Good luck ! I will check back at 3/4 !

Hi all. Is it ok if I join in too? I've started to think I should be trying to encourage 9mnth DD to sleep through without Bfeeding through the night as I'm absolutely knackered and sick to death of not getting a full night's sleep.

She's not awful but I've still been doing a dream feed at 10.30 and then she's been waking for another feed with the occasional sleep thru til 7. It's so frustrating as my other 2DCs were sleeping through by 7 months and I just presumed DD would do the same.

Do you feel as though settling to sleep without feeding and giving water, cuddles instead etc is working?

My initial thought was missing the dream feed as then DH and I could go out for the odd night and not have to rush back so I've tried that tonight. She has woken a couple of times but gone back off to sleep til now when I'm feeding her so I'm hoping she'll now sleep til the morning.

Hope you're all tucked up and fast asleep!

Hello all, do you mind if I join too?

DD is 6.5mo, so still very young, but we have a real problem with feeding to sleep and she is unable to drop off without a boob actually in her mouth. Her sleep has been getting worse since xmas to the point where she rarely sleeps more than an hour or two at a stretch and it can take hours even to get to that point as she wakes and screams within seconds of being put down. There is no 'sleepy but awake' and no leaving her to grizzle for a bit, she's either asleep or full on screaming.

I don't expect her to sleep through or to stop night feeds completely but this situation is ludicrous. I'm currently feeding again for the third time since midnight, I'm aware it is for comfort not food but if I take her off before she's fully asleep she screams. We co sleep but it makes no difference, she is equally capable of screaming while I lie next to her and cuddle her. I can't feed lying down.

Sorry for the long whinge! Guess I would like to know if anyone has been in this situation and come out the other side? Those of you with older babies, do you wish you'd tackled the feed to sleep association sooner? Liveinthepresent I have been looking at sleep consultants too, do you think you'll go ahead? It feels bizarre to contemplate paying someone to tell me how to fulfil a baby's basic biological need, I feel like such a failure as a mother, but this is affecting both my and DP's physical and mental health and DD is getting nowhere near the amount of sleep she needs. I've tried NCSS but didn't get beyond the Pantley pull off and she's proving resistant to that. I don't think I could cope with CC but it doesn't look like there are many other options out there

Hello ArtemistheHunter and Princesspost

Will post later when coherent.
Rubbish night. No idea of timings. Almost no sleep at all. DD has a fever

Hello Artemis and Princess

Amanda

You poor woman - I can imagine how you must feel - sounds like my night on Monday.

Hope you will feel better with some caffeine on board.

Not great here either - was up at 11,1,3.30 and now. Am thankful it's Friday - but have to entertain PIL when I get home tonight so that may be a challenge.
DS has a cough so I know it's to be expected but I feel like he is ill almost constantly and this prevents me doing anything to improve things. Aargh !

Sorry for moaning when I know others have it worse.

artemis I paid for a one off phone consultation and found it incredibly helpful. It gave me a clear step by step plan - all of which made perfect sense and some of which I have achieved. As I said just now if DS didn't get a new cold every week I think I could achieve more but I can't deny him comfort when ill so am not very strong on some of the things I know I should be doing.
I know what you mean about paying for this advice but I found I was just too tired and foggy to think straight so found the conversation very useful.
So I would recommend it but you do have to be really ready to make changes -it isn't easy fixing this.

living good luck for this evening.

Off to make
Dh has won the stand-off and apart from getting up to get the nurofen as I was wedged in by DS and DD he's back in bed so I will be up first.

Must be exhausting for him listening to me get up all night.

Thanks Amanda I handed DS to DH at 6.30 and then went back to bed and overslept making myself 50 mins late to work .
My DH is great and does so much at home - especially with DD - but he just doesn't get the relentless exhaustion and as you said before the feeling of never being off duty. I call the nights my night shift but still I don't think unless you do it you can truly understand how emotionally and physically draining it is!
When I spoke to him about helping with night waking he started listing the nights he couldn't do because of work... Like I get a choice?! Grrrr..

My DH os always saying 'we had a rough night' when he doesn't even move from bed. So annoying especially since our bedroom is in the loft after recently having it converted. You'd think with the amount of times I've been up and down those stairs through the night in the last few months I'd have the most amazingly toned legs and bum....no such luck!

DD woke at 5 too and fed so maybe dropping the 10.30 dream feed hasn't really done anything except create an extra wake up for me.

and all round (and maybe for later). I need a 'stiff gin' emoticon

Amanda how is your DD today? Illness when you're already exhausted is the pits. I'm dreading teething. We have had no real problems yet (bar lots of dribbling and whinging) but when she starts cutting teeth it's going to be an absolute nightmare.

I hit a new low last night, not long after I posted, when DD woke up screaming for the umpteenth time and I screamed back... DP took over and she eventually went to sleep on him in a way that would have the co sleeping police round, but it frightened me. Live do you mind if I ask which consultant you used? I think we need support. Neither of us likes the idea of CIO but we can't agree on how else to tackle the feed to sleep and night waking. If we could work out a plan we could both commit to and stick with we might stand a fighting chance.

Now I know why the Victorians used to give babies opium though I'd probably just take it all myself

(((Artemis))). In the back pages of NCSS there's a technique for dropping night feeds without cc or CIO, that she advises if you're "at the end of your roe"
I used it with DS when he was about 18mo. It did work to get him off night feeds pretty quickly and the waking stopped shortly after.
I don't know why I'm not doing that now tbh

Ooo TheRealAC pray tell of this secret magic.....

Well it basI ally involves not feeding
Obviously you start with a well nourished baby old enough to not need a night feed.
Then when baby wakes for a feed you just... Don't feed, but hold and rock them. I think she says that if it all ecomes too much you give a little feed and then carry on cuddling and rocking etc.
So it's cold turkey with comfort rather than crying it out.
I believe she considers it an emergency measure when you're so desperate as to be considering CIO IYSWIM.
I will read up.
That's how I dropped DSs night feeds. I was desperate.

Thanks Amanda. I will go back to the book and read that section. I guess common sense dictates that the only way to stop feeding to sleep is to... Stop feeding to sleep. But so far DD's vocal persistence has far outweighed my ability to persevere, especially at 3am. My difficulty with NCSS is that, if I follow the techniques, we do get crying and therefore not much sleep. But I don't honestly believe that by this point it is possible to have a tear free solution. The habit is just too ingrained. If I'd had any idea that letting her fall asleep on the boob at 6weeks old was going to land me here I would never have done it wish I'd formula fed

The only problem with not feeding DD during the night is that it takes her longer to go back to sleep so I get less sleep. Simple really then?!

Oh and here's hoping we all have 'good' nights tonight

princess I think it might not be ideal for you as your baby is only 9 mo.

And yes artemis there is crying with that technique, even EP says that. But there's no "leaving to cry" IYSWIM.

DD still a bit poorly, probably viral I would think. So I am expecting a crappy night poor little dolly.
But. I totally agree with all of you who talk about getting less sleep when you'r making a change. I think if I had no work, a mothers help and a cleaner I would be on the floor with a mattress co sleeping and breastfeeding my way to whenever DD self weans tbh.
Good nights everyone.