Misery loves company: riding the mo fo out into Part II

[ElphabaTheGreen]

In our last exciting instalments:

Needles was at breaking point with a screaming 10 mo DD

Hear had experienced the magic of ONE unbroken night!

Dreaming was continuing to confound all with her ability to manage three children on four or five minutes a night, thanks to DT the Terrible.

Stitch was still having her sleep eaten by...erm...Stitch.

Poppy was pondering how the actual fark she was going to manage a newborn on top of BabyAmex's night time shenanigans.

And the desperate Elphaba had turned night duties entirely over to DH with mastitic results.

Join us with your stories of misery and woe in this, the most sleep-deprived corner of MN!

Hello ladies, just popping by to say IT'S A BOY! Slightly shit news is that I have major placenta praevia so no sex until baby is born unless placenta moves out of the way of my cervix (50% chance).

Sorry to hear of continued bad nights. Has anyone tried cranial osteopathy in their search for sleep solutions? The British College of osteopathic Medicine in London offers low cost treatments, free for children under 16.

HA! Knew it! The absence of morning sickness was a giveaway. Does placenta praevia mean no hope of a VBA2C?

Tried cranial osteopathy when DS was 6-7 months. Since I'm still here and still not getting any more sleep, you can guess the result.

Oh, and the GPs picked DS up from nursery and took him to a cafe. They gave him tea. Caffeinated. Tea. At 5pm.

They are so very, very high on my shit list right now...

Hello ladies:)

Stitch congrats on a boy,they are absolutely fantastic.A bit noisy and smelly but very affectionate and cuddly:)
Bollocks about pp-no bonk till the end of pregnancy?My biggest sympathy,DH didn't want to touch me with a barge pole when I was pg,I thought I was going to explode.After DS was born all my libido disappeared somewhere.

Dreaming how the heck do you manage with them?

I'm a bit sceptic about this cranial things.It might work in some cases but not all of them.

Elphaba why don't you ask GP's to have DS for a sleepover after such a shit treat?

DS keeps waking up-2 doses of calpol everyday for teething and he lands in our bed every night bashing everybody making himself comfy

Sorry my last post was so me,me,me,it was a quick one as there's lots happening here not always good things.

Hugs to everybody,night night,sleep tight yes,you little buggers

Thanks bald :)

Elph, yes if the placenta doesn't move (grade 4 completely covering atm) to at least several cm away from the cervix it is another CS for me. The risk of placental abruption and haemorrhage is too high otherwise, they don't even let you go into labour.

Oh dear, Stitch. That's disappointing but as long as it all ends happily, I suppose.

We've got DS falling asleep in his cot without feeding now, and absolutely no feeding at night until he's up for the day. We got one - and only one - 7pm til 6am uninterrupted stretch like this, but when we go into him now he knows he's supposed to lie down. Back rub seems to have replaced boob, however, so that's the next hurdle

And, naturally, I have mastitis as a result

Aw Elph not mastitis again :( At least there is some progress on the settling front though, even if it is only one step along the road to self settling.

Yesterday was the first day with no bedtime feed for Stitch, so I am now not breastfeeding at all. Feel a bit sad about it and a bit guilty, but feeding her at bedtime is a bit like feeding a baby crocodile. The wrestling and biting was just too much, plus nipple stimulation can contract the womb, so not a good idea in my case as I risk a bleed. She got 19 months so not bad, I wanted to go to 2 years like I did with dd1, probably good to have a break anyway before ds comes along anyway.

Congratulations stitch boys are filthy, danger seeking, boisterous little tikes lovely. One of mine is incredibly loving too- the non sleeping one! Shame about the pp, but I did like a planned cs, you cam count down the agony days to go for sure

elph what what what?!?! I have still totally, utterly, 100% failed to make progress with night weaning and self settling. I tried again last night at the 11pm waking. Failed utterly, just succeeded in bf at midnight and then spending about another hour getting the horror back to sleep- and even then it was in bed with me. Please tell me how you did it?! I can rock Dt1 to sleep, but he insists on bf first. Really crap about the mastitis

Oh, and in bad news, the other one has stopped sleeping, or self settling. Absolutely nightmarish bedtimes now. In fact, DH has a stinking headache tonight and couldn't face carrying on trying to calm hysterical dt2 so just left him, started on dd, I was rocking dt1 to sleep so he cried uncontrollably for about 5-10 min, cried probably 25 -30 min in total, but i feel bad as noone went back to him. He sounded near puking at one stage. In fact, he may have been sick, he was on Friday night (& he never vomits. Unlike his brother) but i don't dare go in and check

Oh and bald I tried cranial osteopathy, did nothing here. Seemed total mumbo jumbo to me- the woman just put her hands on his head, and then said things like , there's some tightness in his left pelvic region. WTAF?! I'm a physio, and it just didn't make any rational sense to me. I thought it would be gentle massage/ head pressure points/ manipulation or something. Imo it was faith healing!! I could have seen a dodgy one though. On a good day my three are fine now. Busy, granted, and i can't take them to the playground myself but can visit friends, go to playgroups, maybe one farm park place. On a bad day its three screaming children hell!

I love writing a really long reply then have the MN (cr)App eat it

Once more with feeling...

Dreaming I feel exactly the same way about cranial osteo, and had the same sorts of expectations that you did ('if nothing else a decent head rub might relax him to sleep a bit'). I saw two of 'em in the interests of being open-minded so I don't think it was just the one you saw. Apparently DS had really tight 'membranes' on his head, causing pressure over his temporal lobes which is stopping him from sleeping. Yup. One of them also stuck a finger in his mouth 'to release his occiput'. Ay-yup. I just kept schtum about being a clinical specialist neuro OT and wasn't at all shocked or surprised when it had no effect whatsoever.

This time around, we've basically done a heavily modified version of CC with DS. In the past when we've done it, it's just been UNcontrolled crying with us bobbing pointlessly in and out of the room while he screams ceaselessly. This time, we stay with him until he's settled and lying down quietly then leave the room immediately, leave him alone for a couple of minutes then go back and stay with him until he's calmed down again, even if it takes 20 or 30 mins of standing at the end of his cot or near the door. I'm not claiming success at all - not with our track record - but tonight was the first time DS has EVER been able to put him to bed by himself, with less than a minute of whinging from DS before he was snoring I've also stopped boobing to sleep for naps so that boob does not equal sleep at any time, ever. On Sunday, I was able to put him down awake in his cot, rub his back and he was asleep in 2 mins Never even come close to that before. We started on a week night so that a) he was sufficiently worn out from a day at nursery and b) he had his usual nap routine at nursery the following day, rather than falling asleep on DH's lap in front of the telly at 9am on a Saturday and ballsing up the rest of the day, or me being so fecking tired from the night's shenanigans that I just boob him to sleep for his nap to get a break. I was at a boring conference instead, taking full advantage of sitting quietly, drinking a great deal of the complementary coffee and mainlining biscuits.

He was awake a million times last night, but that, I'm pretty sure, is because he did boob to sleep on Sunday during the day then slept on me for over two hours, because I was feeling like fifty shades of gobshite with a hot boob and was desperate for a rest. I was by myself all weekend as DH was off in Cardiff for the cricket. I didn't boob him at all last night, but did take him in bed with me and pat-shh-ed, mainly to get him through the witching hour that is 4am.

We'll see how tonight goes, eh?

Sorry - DH has ever been able to put DS to bed by himself. I'm not well

Elph not mastitis again :(

About this cranial thing-1st time I heard about it it was on MN.I thought it strange and at some point dangerous-manipulating with still soft skull of the baby.I'm not a medical person but I don't believe in such abracadabra we'll fix your baby here at this minute.I might be wrong and it does work for some people.

Another thing that I read on MN was to gently rub the base of the nose between eyes-this is supposed to put the little devil baby to sleep.Never tried that so don't know whether it's more bollocks.

DH puts DS to bed-he rubs his belly,sometimes he has to gently hold him down to prevent him from jumping up and down in his cot.On a few occasions DS was crying but always goes to sleep.

I deal with all night wakings-usually DS ends up in our bed attached to my boob so no night weaning here.I can't do his bedtime because he'll play me up.I tried CC and I still do it at nap time-sometimes it works,sometimes DS is hysterical so boob and he's off to the land of nod after 2 minutes.

He goes to sleep at 9pm and gets up not later than 7am,at least couple of wakings every night and day nap ranging from 40 minutes if i'm unlucky to 2 hours if i'm lucky.

Dreaming as long as they are safe a bit of a cry is not going to do them any harm,even if they are sick.Just make sure that they're not choking.It must be very difficult with 3 DC crying at the same time. ((hug))

Stitch congrats on bf for 19 months.How are you feeling?You must be at least 4 months now?

How are you Poppy if you're lurking?

Any other mums of not sleepers?

Back to work at the weekend-had some time off as had to use up the holidays.Was going to do a pg test today as was 2 days late so took a stick,went to the toilet and...AF appeared.I don't know if i felt disappointed or relieved.

Hello? Anyone here? I've come back as 13 month old DD is still a terror.

Actually feel close to the end of my rope with this lack of napping during the day (has been 25 mins today and yesterday). Also also fed up with the approx 5 wake-ups a night. I've used all my tricks from when DS was a baby, and all the tricks I've read on MN and in books. But she may as well be laughing in my face.

I have her 1 year HV appt next week. I haven't had much of a rapport with my HV in the past 4 years (she's also DS's HV) but do you think it's worth begging her for advice and support? I'm worried in case she just churns out the same shite that I've already heard. I want some sort of magic wand.

As far as my experience goes, the hv will just churn out shite needles . Worth a shot, possibly...

No real ideas, its all still crap here, but i can't carry on any longer either. Tonight, DH has taken the Terrible Twin to my mums static caravan 10 minutes from us. Gulp. The aim being, stopping bf. Completely. I've done nearly 18 months. I'm fed up of exclusions in my diet. He has low haemoglobin and low ferritin, therefore is clearly not eating enough solids and relying too much on breast milk overnight for calories- but bm is low iron. Sigh. So, here we go. Wish us luck!
And can I be really mean and hope DH sticks it out all night and my other two dc sleep through?!

How are you elph ? Any more sleep throughs?

stitch, are you blooming nicely? How's stitch #2 sleeping?

Good luck dreaming I weaned both DC off the breast at 12 months - that was great with DS and he started to sleep all night. DD clearly not

You'll be fine! Sending good vibes to your DH too at the caravan :)

Yet another post lost to the ravenous MN App

Try again...

Needles All your HV will tell you to do is CC or gradual retreat. This is what I had from three different HVs, although one did throw in the added bonus of suggesting I withhold breastfeeds from DS throughout the entire day to force him to eat more. Since he was just seven months old at the time and only four weeks into solids, I ignored that particular pearl of wisdom.

I think that's a wise move Dreaming. Hopefully it will make a difference sleep-wise, but if nothing else it will allow one part of your life to not be ruled entirely by your child's awful sleep. I find custard and ice-cream to be marvellous panaceas to what DS inflicts on me.

I haven't fed to sleep at all, or at night, for over a week now and we've had a couple of 7 til almost-5 stretches (7 til 6 has yet to be repeated). Mainly we're just at a 4am impasse. I would love to know what it is about that bastard , godforsaken, fucking hour that makes him awake, but definitely wanting more sleep, yet incapable of sleeping for longer than 10 minutes at a time until gone 5am, by which time it's less than an hour before I have to get up for work. Throw in an hour and a half of bobbing up and down like a meerkat at midnight on top of that like last night...custard, stat!

Ooh. Those posts were from yesterday. How did it go Dreaming??

Gosh Dreaming how did it go? Can I ask what you plan on giving your ds instead of bf? One of the things that stops me giving up bf is that I worry dd won't get enough calcium without it. She just isn't into any other milk substitute and even with a supplement I don't think she would have enough. We don't really eat much dairy anyway so I don't mind that too much and I quite like almond or the koko milk, but I do really miss oats (porridge and oatcakes, who would have thought I would crave these things so much!). I suspect I shall just end up feeding her until she decides to give up on her own as I am weak willed in the face of her milk demands at 2am.

Sleep has been shit due to colds and conjunctivitis (which I have managed to get as well, my eyeballs actually itch. I didn't even realise this was possible). I am also in a slight panic that dd seems to be starting to give up her daytime nap. When am I going to make dinner, drink coffee and sit around on mn? The Horror! The Horror!

hear I don't care what he does or doesn't drink if I can eat chocolate . I'm hoping he will drink some koko milk, or oatly milk. I don't give him supplements. He has been started on iron, so now has various medicines 8x daily. Can't face doing anything else yet :-/ I do plan on restarting soya and cooked egg, eg in cake (dietician said!) challenges. Dietician.said Dt2, who has approx 2oz oatly with cereal, one soya yoghurt a day is fine in terms of calcium. As Dt1 can't yet tolerate soya I will blend broccoli into pasta sauces etc and do porridge/ cereal with a calcium enriched milk.

DT the Terrible has now done two nights in the caravan. The first was ok. Up two hourly as normal, but only one period of extended crying. The second was terrible. Enough said, sure you all know what I mean. Tonight DH is working til late so i have to try and pacify him without feeding and without waking the other two. Yikes. dreading it is an understatement. And I am very scared I'll stop bf, get nowhere with sleep, (not helped by your story *needles ) and then have to get up and walk and rock rather than bf to sleep. I know I'm also giving up for my own need for dairy but I'm feeling guilty and a bit torn. Why am I not more decisive?! Oh, and I'm so, so sore boob-wise, worrying about imminent mastitis.

elph! Sounds great so far. Apart from the bloody, bloody 4am business. Now that is gruelling. Neither of my others are early wakers either, 6:30 -7:30 are dd and Dt2 so I've no ideas... But i remain hopeful lack of night milk must help, somehow. Is your ds still dairy free?

dreaming sorry for scaring you by telling you about DD not changing her sleep pattern since being weaned off the breast Didn't mean to be unhelpful, but that's the truth of my life with her.

You'll be fine.... I'll be fine... we'll all be fine...

Need more

Dreaming You might find night 3 is where DT the T turns a corner. Night two has always been worse than the first here. Just don't give into exhaustion and sore boobs and feed him or his two horrible nights will have all been for nothing. And I recommend you get in a hot bath with some ibuprofen and a hand-pump. It's not a sure-fire preventive measure here but I've unblocked some ducts that way that I'm sure would otherwise have joined the dark side, judging by the extraordinary stuff I've wrung out (stringy yellow stuff? Little white pellets?? WTF?)

We're still pretty much dairy-free here, but it's making not a jot of difference. I think we're looking at toddler diarrhoea. The GP has taken a stool sample to rule out infection (which I'm pretty sure it will, since DS is otherwise fit as a fiddle), then I might ask to be referred for allergy testing, but I think DS may just have provided me with another mo fo to ride out

Non formed poo up to about 2 is normal though, so says DT the T's consultant. His is loose, but not watery diarrhoea leaky nappy style any more, though we still often get those. Hence me needing to stop bf or go strictly everything good free which I no longer want to do. Mostly though, even when really quite loose, its less vile smelling.

I have hot showered my sore boobs, and am pumping. I have a hardcore, bad boy double electric pump. I just have so much milk, from feeding lots and feeding two and have stopped overnight from approximately 13 feeds between them both in 24 hours to none. Pain. Full. What a ridiculous plan, in hindsight....

Don't worry needles being realistic I don't expect him to become an amazing sleeper, just please, please, not a two hourly wakings one....

Well, at least even if sleep doesn't improve you can dull the pain with the power of hot chocolates topped with lashings of cream. Hang on in there! [waves some pom poms about] :)

DP was up half the night last night emptying his stomach from all directions. It was pretty grim. I have also been feeling pretty rubbish today and went to pick up dd from nursery (after receiving the dreaded phone call) only to end up running into their toilet to sit with my head between my legs trying not to throw up. Nursery think dd might have chicken pox which would be a disaster as that would be no nursery for a while, which would be a childcare nightmare. I really can't take time off work at the moment and neither can dp. I am therefore close to discovering religion and praying fervently that it's just a non-specific viral rash.

Oh no hear I'm hoping you are not closeted in the bathroom now... And here's hoping your dd doesn't have the pox either. I've just paid and had my 3 vaccinated, I was dreading it that much. Yet I've been screwed recently with our nanny being off sick....

Night 3 not much better. He did sleep til 2am, which he's only ever done once before, made a big fuss, ages to get him back to sleep (by DH but you can hear everything in our house and I have to listen out for the other twin and just can't sleep through his howling) but then up hourly or less til 6:15. Dt the not so Angelic was up at 5:55 after being disturbed by him anyway though. Groan. Boob pain slightly better today. Still expressing. Please let tonight be better!

Uh oh Hear. Nursery was better at diagnosing DS's chicken pox than the GP was, so you might want to start stocking up on calamine. I maintain nurseries should have a quarantine room for the infectious but not particularly unwell children. It sticks in my craw when I have to collect DS, or keep him home from nursery because he's contagious with something he's contracted FROM NURSERY but bouncing around on the sofa because he feels perfectly fine. It's not like you get a refund for those days, is it? And don't get me started on how much annual leave I've had to take. It's one of the reasons I'd like a formal explanation one way or another for DS's bowels because nursery have a policy of sending a child home if they have three loose nappies. That's sometimes a morning's work for DS's bottom, with more fun and games in the afternoon. Tedious.

On the plus side, Piriton is meant to be great for the itching, and also has the side-effect of being a sedative

Hang in there Dreaming (with lashings of full-cream cow's milk and a Kit Kat on the side) I've also got a whizz-bang electric double pump but I find a hand pump in the bath particularly effective because you can pump in the bath, soaking between pumps to get more out and make it more tolerable. I've also got a bit of a trick going where, after the first few pumps to get the milk going, you can squeeze and hold the pump on a continuous 'suck' for 10-20 secs a bit like putting a vacuum on your boob, which you can't do on an electric pump, then doing a firm breast compression at the same time. It's a bit like a fire-hose and blasts the greeblies out.