Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

Good god

Oh Judy sorry to hear you had a bad night. I suppose you either need to stick to it or contact Millpond and say you just aren't willing to do CC or find a middle way yourselves. Sorry your dad is not much chuff.

Count things are sounding really positive. Well done!

Seriously, I'm feeling bloody evangelical about this firmly patting hip to sleep thing. DD has just gone down for the 3rd time today with it only taking 5 minutes. No idea how long it will last for but I've NEVER been able to get her to go down so quickly. Amazing.

Thanks again for your good wishes for DD. Dr is doing a full stool sample work up but it will take a week to get the results.

Thanks for the messages. Millpond aren't pushing cc by the way. It's just I think DH might prefer it. To be fair to the millpond lady she said we should do a call after 3 days but I thought this would be an easy step.

Can't believe you're hv said that Kitty (actually...... I can). Hope it's not been too tough.

Judys everything I've read says to respond quickly during separation anxiety and it will pass quicker. perhaps you could tell dh cc is not advisable during separation anxiety? sometimes I find deferring a decision rather than refusing works easier with my dp. the first night of a big change in sleep habits is normally expected to make everything unsettled though, were you not warned? I also don't get why you have to rock if he's been going to sleep in the cot before now.

Comrade, I hope you get the bleeding sorted. I think the only way to be sure if it's dairy is for you to cut out all dairy and see if it improves :(

bigkids FAN-TAS-TIC! well done your ds

kitty some hv need retraining, or at least to read the leaflets they themselves hand out.

snarfle no idea how you managed 5 hours napping. hope the 3 hours works well today though.

I've just got my two down for only their second nap of the day (at 3pm). normally they're 3 naps/day, but today a combination of circumstances kept them awake till 2. then trying to calm them down enough to sleep took ages. they weren't really upset, just wired. even feeding them felt like holding a ball of eels. but part of me's thinking "if they now sleep for 2 hours..."

mama - he only sleeps like that through the day when being held - like I said I can't imagine doing 5 hours like that every day! Hope you get a good nap out of them now.

Oh my god oh my god oh my god

I don't know how to say this ......

DS SLEPT THROUGH last night. He shouted once at 11.30 but by the time DH got upstairs he was asleep. And that was it from 6.55 to 6.25!!!!!

:D

I know it won't be forever now - Andrea warned me it was three steps forward one back - but what a way to finish our month with her!!!

Wow bigkids! That's amazing! Really happy for you.
Last night was slightly better for us. DS woke 6 times rather than 8 but I felt he was going to sleep more easily in our arms. Not sure whether to push onto the next step tonight or not though.
I feel I'm misrepresenting DH slightly as well. I don't think he really wants to do CC much either but isn't dead set against it. The plan at the moment is to try the current sleep plan and then talk about it if it doesn't work (bit of decision defering there as you say Mama).
I did tell DH that if it was a really bad night I was going to co-sleep even though the sleep consultant says it's a really bad move. I just didn't want to have to argue about it in the middle of the night and knowing I had that as an option made me feel calmer and more able to follow through with the plan IYSWIM. In the end I swapped with DH at 4.30am so DS spent all night in the cot again.
I was wondering what you all thought about full night weaning at 8.5months? Are your DS night weaned count and cos? Not sure how quickly to do it. We're down to 2 feeds a night so was thinking maybe I could reduce one quite quickly and then the other rather than both at once but that's deviating from the plan again.....

and I repeat:

bigkids FAN-TAS-TIC! well done your ds :round of applause:

well our 2 nap day turned into disaster at bedtime. took over an hour to settle these babies to sleep (usually takes 10 mins each), then another hour to resettle when they woke 30 mins later. dp and I are divided on whether it was the two naps making them too overtired to get into a proper sleep or beans on toast for tea being hard to digest. either way, I'm gutted. we go on holiday Sunday and I've worked so hard at keeping the bedtimes calm and consistent night after night so that they will be not too disturbed on holiday if we have all the same props, and those props did nothing last night to calm them :( it's not safe to cosleep there and they will have to be in cots all night. now thinking we're just stupidly ambitious to try a holiday this year, and the weather will be rubbish anyway. should just send dp and ds1 on their own. :(

bigkids that's excellent - so pleased for you and long may it continue!!!
mama - you might get a pleasant surprise on ur holiday, maybe it was the beans or just a blip? Try something different for tea and see how it goes tonight - fingers crossed for you!

WOW bigkids! that's brilliant

DS was up loads last night. Every hour at one point. He was really grumpy and off his food yesterday so hoping it's just teeth/tummyache rather than yet another regression

He was easy to settle though, and I did hear him settle himself at one point during the evening. He did that thing of letting out a little sob and rolling onto his side :)

Thanks everyone :)

Judy - do you think millpond want to ease him along with things changing a fair bit or is the idea to get him accustomed to each step as you go? Surely extending each stage by a day or two isn't deviating as such unless the idea is that he doesn't get too used to it.

Mama, I feel for you. I didn't bother booking a holiday this year, the whole idea was too stressful. I hope it works out for you

Ooh, x-posted with judy and mama.

Glad you had a slightly better night judy. We didn't consciously nightwean DS this time round - he sort of did it himself. For aaaaaages he woke between 10pm and 11pm and wouldn't settle without a feed. Then one night I managed to settle him without feeding, and shortly afterwards that waking disappeared. (He did wake at 11 last night and I fed him because he'd only had my right boob at bedtime and it has a lower supply so I thought he was probably hungry.) So we're mainly down to one feed, which in the last week or two has been around 3/4am. I do feed at that waking because I've read that many babies up to 9 months still need a feed at that time in the morning, and it's just quicker and easier anyway. I figure he'll drop that feed when he's ready. Basically we always try to settle without feeding, but just don't try as hard after 4am!

Mama here's hoping it was just a blip. We were very pleasantly surprised at how well DS settled while we were away. We were worried it'd be a total mare, but it was actually fine.

About night weaning - it's a very difficult issue I think. Some people like weissbuth say nine months, Andrea grace says five months ish, there are lots of women on other threads here who swear their babies still need night feeds at 15 or 16 months. And of course they are right - if a baby feeds at night regularly it learns to spread its calories out over 24 hours rather than 12. Personally I think a lot depends on the weight and eating habits of the baby. If you have a small baby who doesn't eat much he might well still need feeds at nine months. If, like me, you have a baby who hit 20lb before he reached 5 months, you can be a but more certain about it.

I think, Judy, that at no time is your DS suddenly going to be 'ready' for full weaning. You just need to gradually reduce and see what happens. I fed after one then after three and it never changed his behaviour in any way. Even now we are ff, he goes in his jumperoo for over half an hour while I make his morning bottle and he is happy and not screaming. BUT if he's like Count's DS and cannot be settled then you will know that he is genuinely hungry.

20lb at 5 months - wow, you've got a whopper, bigkids! Mini-count is only 19lb 2oz at 38 weeks ...

Totally agree with your post. If the baby won't settle, and you can settle at other times without feeding, they probably are hungry.

I know I weigh him at the self service scales in a different GP surgery now because the HVs kept glaring at me as if I were feeding him up like a goose! His dad is 6 ft 2 and rugby build so I think he'll be the same!

Wow bigkids congratulations!!!!

judy your DH sounds like mine ? he keep coming back to the idea of CC, definitely isn?t as against it as I am. In the end though, he?s as soft as me so I don?t think would be able to do it in reality.

DH and DS had a good night on my night away, just the one waking for a feed. I didn?t sleep brilliantly, hotel room was too hot and pillows were horrible, but I didn?t sleep that badly so success all round really.

so is there a optimal weight for night weaning? at 8.5 months, mine are only 15lb and 18lb. they do have a good feed after every 2.5 hours, and I wonder whether I make enough milk for them to go even 6 hours without a feed, as they only get one boob each.

glad your ds coped on your night away, but sorry you couldn't have 12 hours solid shut eye yourself!

It's funny because I would have throught the bigger the baby the more they would have to feed but I guess it's another one of those "every baby is different" things. DS is about 20lbs at the moment too.
I'm not sure how it works for feeding twins mama but I do single sided feeding the majority of the time. I'm not sure why - I think I saw someone do it like that at the beginning and just copied. When DS was very little, before I had his sleep to obsess about, I was always worried about him reaching the hind milk and he never seemed to finish on one side so I think my supply built up like that
I'm not sure if we are meant to get DS used to each stage or not - guess that's a question for our first call. It seems to make sense to me though especially if we're going to limit the crying. The plan just says a step should last 3-5 days. I think we will move on though as I'm a bit nervous about getting DS used to falling asleep on me (though he does look very cute).

I do single sided feeding mostly too - DS decided at around 3 months that he didn't like my right boob as much, so the supply dwindled a bit. He'll take it if he's dopey, but I do most feeding off the left now, and have wonky norks.

Congratulations big kids!

Judy at 5.5kg (12lb) my dr said that babies can do one 6ish hour block without a feed. Which really means a bedtime of 7ish, a dream feed at 11 and then not feeding again before 6. I can post how dr said to stretch them out if you wish. My aim ATM is to feed only twice during the night but eventually just once. Can't imagine that happening any time soon though.

Another good night here. Went down at 7:30 and woke briefly at 8:30and 9:30 then slept til 3. Woke again at 4 and took longer to go Back to sleep. Woke at 7:30 for a feed but has gone back to sleep.

Siunds good Comrade!

DS woke crying pretty much every hour last night :( He would only really settle with a feed, and woke for the day at 5:30. So looks like his recent purple patch was a fluke and we're back to business as usual ...

sounds good

good night *comrade"!

we had another awful one. two naps again yesterday, then they fed to sleep at 7 as they were exhausted, and woke every 30-60 minutes till I co slept from 2. I just got them to sleep in their cots for the first nap today and there was a lot of crying. I feel such a cold hearted bastard just sitting here, hand on their back holding them down and singing at them. :( I love them and want to hold them but I don't know how else to get two babies to sleep, and I can't keep feeding them because (a) it doesn't always work and (b) one or other ends up biting me most times.

I'm having a full on pity me moment I think. Ill all week, finally recovered properly yesterday and I got some worrying news from the gp. now we're away from tomorrow so I got a week to worry before we can do any more tests. argh. sorry. I need some sleep, and some sanity.

count sorry to hear it's fallen apart for you too, although you have had a good few weeks, so it's encouraging that he can do it for an extended period. hopefully this is just the blip (teething, bug of some kind, growth spurt...?) and normal service will be resumed shortly.

Oh no Mama - really sorry to hear that - hope you're OK.