The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

cosmosis - did you notice that the night feeds affected the day feeds? I feel DS is feeding more during the night. How often were you feeding in the day if you don't mind me asking - DS feeds every 2.5 - 3 hours but seems to be stretching out for longer sometimes and I'm worried it's because he's doing most of his eating at night!
Also did your DS drop the night feeds by himself or did you stop them gradually? We're a bit one step forward one step back at the moment. DS did a 3 hour stretch last night which was great but I ended up feeding him at 11.30pm, 3am, 4am and 5.30am. He then slept in till after 9pm (once I'd taken him into bed with me) so today has been all over the place. Need to try and be more firm about not feeding in the night but it's hard when I'm half awake and it seems the easiest option.

judy I felt he was starting to not feed as much in the day 9(it's called Reverse Cycling apparently) and more at night, I suppose my fault beause I fed him whenever he woke up rather than waiting to see if he was waking through hunger. So I just deliberately tried to offer more in the day, so I was confident enough to refuse feeds at night and do something else to get him to sleep. It has resulted quite quickly in less wake ups, so am very pleased. I have to say though, I don't think I would have done it much younger than he is now (coming up to 6 months) as somehow I feel he is more robust and can take no for an answer

we just seemed to be getting into a vicious circle of frequent wakings and relying on feeding back to sleep which meant too much food in the night time. If he's going to go 4 hours between feeds I want it in the night not the day!!

Having said that we had quite a lot of wakings again last night, 8.30, 9.30, 1.30, 2.30 and 4.30 But I only fed at 1.30 and 4.30 - probably should have tried not to at 4.30 but wasn't thinking straight But it was very easy to get him back off to sleep at all the other wakings, so I know he wasn't hungry.

I do agree about it being the easiest option though - but actually how that he is quicker to get back to sleep, it's quicker not to feed! And that only took 2 or 3 nights, so not as painful as I expected.

Ohhhh god. I am feeling so fed up today.

Last night it was my night 'off' AKA on the blow-up campbed in my DD's room while DH takes care of DS 18 weeks. But DS screamed, and I mean screamed, for an hour just after I'd gone to bed, and then my DD woke me at ten to six. DS will only sleep on me during the day, I've got sciatica and hip pain from carrying him around so much (had SPD in pregnancy) AND he is refusing to feed properly - presumably reflux-related. I am SO SO fed up. My poor DD1 who is 2.8 is in nursery 4 days per week because I cannot cope with the two together, I miss her so much, and she is suffering too. I can't ring my DH as he is working on a major major piece of work and he is really stressed. My mum and dad I don't want to call either as my dad's unwell with high BP. I just feel so alone and so tired today.

I have put DS in his cot - he is really grumbling but I just cannot face another session of walking him around the house just so he can get some sleep.

Oh narmada that is a lot on your plate :(

That turned in to a mega moan. I am embarrassed now .

How are you getting on cosmosis - sounds like you're having some success. Hurray!

Sleep trainig next week. Can take no more and the whole family is suffering.

Thanks for all the info cosmosis - it's hard as I don't want to not feed if he's hungry but suspect he's not a lot of the time. Only fed at 11.30pm and 4am last night which is good and managed to shsh pat a couple of times. Can't believe how well it is working and how calm DS has been at bedtimes. Last night he took an hour to get to sleep but didn't cry once the whole time - was just calmly in cot. After half an hour I thought maybe this is when I'm meant to say goodnight and leave the room so did for a few minutes until he started whingeing. Maybe should have left him but I didn't him to start screaming when we were getting on so well.
Narmada - I read your post earlier this afternoon on my phone and really wanted to reply but didn't get the chance until now. Sounds like things are really tough. Don't be embarrassed - I think that's what this thread is for. Good to write it down and get it out sometimes.

judys that sounds fab. Long may it continue working. Thanks also for the sympathy. I come on here in desparation and also, like many others I think, to escape a bit.

DS is screaming in the bedroom with DP, despite the dummy, bouncing and pacing him around. I can't hold him or wrestle with him any more (that's DS, not DP). I've been doing it all day long and I am done. Thankfully I have

Hi all. Good to hear about judy's and cosmosis having some success. narmada poor you - must be awful. We're all here whenever you need to offload!

bumper how is dd1? Any better?

The last couple of days have been better after a hellish day on Tuesday. DS refused his morning nap, screamed through an appointment with the HV and woke every 1-2 hours in the night. I was literally at the end of my rope and ended up sobbing to DH at 4am when DS was asleep!! I just couldn't get to sleep myself after being constantly disturbed.

Then yesterday, suddenly, he changed. Went down for 3 naps without a whisper. In cot asleep on dot of 7pm and slept until 10:20. Back in cot at 11, up again at 2:20 for feed, back in cot for 3. Up at 4:20 and I cuddled and shhed him to sleep without feeding. Then up at 6. Best night in ages!

Then today he had loads of sleep, including a completely random 2.5 hour nap this morning . I was v lucky too as I'd decided to have a doze myself - I never do usually as he's such a catnapper, but couldn't keep my eyes open. So I got two hours' sleep myself - result!

He was a bit screamy at bedtime though - not sure why.

I have no idea what has brought about this change. I can only assume that either:

a) he is finally coming out of the four-month regression hell
b) he sensed that if he didn't buck his ideas up I might have put him out with the recycling, or
c) he has heard us talking about doing pu/pd this weekend and is on his best behaviour.

Let's see what tonight brings ...

count that's brilliant. Makes me really happy that someone else is having success - and all without PUPD. Hurray!

That sounds great count - how old is your DS? Mine is 20 weeks tomorrow - would be great if it just came to an end on it's own.
We're having a one step backwards evening so far but I did take DS out nearly all day and he had rubbish naps so only myself to blame - had stayed in for the last 4 days working on daytime sleep and was going a little crazy - think I need a bit more balance. Hope you all have good nights.

judys he's ... umm ... 22 weeks I think - he was 5 months on Wednesday anyway.

Not sure whether to proceed with pu/pd now or just hope things improve on their own. Will see how he is by the weekend. He does have a habit of pretending to improve his sleep for a day or two, only for it to go tits up again ...

Morning everyone, it's great to come on here and see that count and cosmosis are starting to see improvements - I really have my fingers crossed that they continue! Not least because you are giving me hope. At 16 weeks I fear my ds' sleep is going to get worse before it gets better :(

Didn't make it anywhere near t'internet yesterday because I was literally up all bloody night on Wednesday. Ds has a horrible cold and was waking every 20 minutes crying (and I thought co-sleeping meant everyone got more sleep ) so in the end I gave up, brought him downstairs and let him sleep upright on my chest while I watched telly with the subtitles on until 5. Luckily my own fab mum was then able to take ds for a few hours while I caught up on some sleep.

Luckily last night was a bit better!

judy, I know exactly what you mean about just needing to get out sometimes, even if it does bugger their sleep up. Staring at the same four walls all the time sucks!

Narmada you really have my sympathy re the day time sleeping. My ds will only nap on me/in the sling too but to have that and residual pain from your spd must be a nightmare. Ds has also had refluxy issues (fingers crossed these are improving) and I've just got an amby hammock off ebay in the hope that it will help him sleep past 40 mins...not got him in it yet though!

I've also (in desperation) asked for a referral to a paed just to try and rule out anything that might be causing him to wake so frequently. My gp doesn't take me very seriosuly at the moment (am very anxious due to the pnd and have diagnosed ds with everything under the sun) but I really want to rule out a physical cause.

Right, back to my delicious heavily caffeinated morning coffee

well we had an interesting night. Got him to sleep fine, he woke at 11.20 for a feed, and then when I tried to put him down, he roared for 2 hours - I couldn't get him to calm down, every time I thought he was asleep and tried to put him down he started again. DH got him to sleep in the end thankfully. It was awful :( not really upset crying, no tears, just roaring! But then he slept till 6!

count sounds like you have had a great couple of days, fingers crossed it will continue....

Just wish me luck for the weekend, DH will be home for 10 mins tonight to get his stuff, and then away till Sunday eve :( Luckily have arranged to see a couple of friends during the days so am not a total gibbering wreck by the time he comes home.

count - I have to refer to the red book to see how old DS is in weeks - just can't shake the habit. DS is 5 months next Tuesday so will await the improvement.... Been meaning to say that I found the vidoe clip really funny (if a bit close to the bone sometimes for me) and it inspired me to go back to swaddling as he still has the arms flailing falling reflex. Have so far resisted the duct tape though
plasticspoon that sound pretty rubbish - hope last night was better. Not good when you think things are as bad as they can get and then you have an even worse night
cosmosis - four hours sleep is definitely something to cling to!
Our night was pretty much unchanged. Took ages to settle DS but he was in a really good mood - smiling and cooing to himself. Was a bit confused what to do to be honest - more used to dealing with him upset at bedtime. Was v tempted to get him back up but then thought that putting them to bed when he's not a screaming wreck is what you're meant to do. I left him again after half an hour to see what he'd do and he lasted 10 minutes before starting to sound upset. Maybe I should have waited longer but again wanted to head off any screaming.
He still woke nearly every hour but only fed twice between 9pm and 7.30am so pleased with that. The last couple of nights though he has woke about 3am for an hour and a half again in a good mood as long as he can grab his toes and roll around a bit.
I thought I might have cracked it yesterday as realised his sleep went really bad at the same time I started using aqueous cream for his eczema and have read that can really irritate the skin in many babies. We've since moved onto Epaderm but it's still quite similiar. I was convinced that if we went back to olive oil he would sleep for hours . He woke up scratching anyway but we did go swimming yesterday morning so going to investigate further [clutching at straws emoticon].

Ha - well, it was all a big lie. DS woke every two hours again, and was wide awake from 5am. Eventually gave up trying to get him back to sleep and plonked him on the bed next to me so I could have a lie down. He lay there for a few minutes making happy noises, flailing his legs about and patting me on the face then did a huge poo. Luckily DH appeared from the spare room at 6 so I could go back to bed, but had to hide under the duvet to block out DS's shouts as DH tried to get him back down.

So it's pu/pd for you, young man! Oh god oh god, am dreading it. Going to start tomorrow night. The only thing spurring me on is that an nct pal has been doing it (just at bedtime) with her DS for a few weeks - he was similarly crap at sleeping, but is now settling himself and sleeping for longer stretches.

judy's know what you mean, bits of that clip did make me flinch but I was amused to see things like colic and swaddling mentioned in a stand-up routine. Makes a change from mother-in-law jokes!

bumper really hope you're doing OK - thinking of you.

Is anyone else constantly being told by relatives and friends to start giving solids to help your baby sleep better? It's starting to really irritate me. I know DS isn't hungry every time he wakes - he just finds it really hard to fall asleep. I don't see how a couple of spoonfuls of baby rice will change that, but maybe I'll be forced to eat my words (fnar) when the time comes ...

we learned the lesson long ago to just say he sleeps well when asked - it avoids conversations about rods for backs, cio etc etc

Indeed! Are you starting tomorrow night?

plasticspoon that sounds awful by the way! Poor you!

narmada are things any better?

cosmosis you're very restrained - I find I can't help but tell anyone I meet about all of DS's sleep problems (normally start with a blow by blow account of previous night - am hoping venting on here will help me not scare of all of my RL friends!).
Managed not to cry at GP's which is a first. Wish I'd written down what I meant to ask first though. Got the feeling she'd made a decision about what to do within 30s of me starting talking and I realised after I left that I hadn't really found out what I wanted. Just got a prescription for the cream we're already using - epaderm - as she says it should not be an irritant. Oh well - that's another theory gone.
Bumper I hope the cp isn't too hard to deal with. I know I blether on about night wakings on here but I actually think if I could get my evenings back I wouldn't mind quite so much. Never get the chance to relax. I basically have one window of a sleep cycle to eat dinner and then it's back to settling him and once I've done that it's bedtime for me.

I'm the same, judy - I'm always moaning about DS's sleep to anyone who'll listen, including on here. I sometimes feel a bit bad about that, though - apart from his sleep ishoos he is so lovely

Have put some pics up on my profile so you can all see how manic and hyper cute he is

Hi all

I'm sorry, I can't remember what everyone's posts said but sympathies for all the lack of sleep. Nights aren't to bad here at the moment, but I have no evening to speak of. Day time naps are actually ok seeing as we are house bound. I feed dd2 laying down on the bed the transfer her to her hammock. Usually pretty successful except between the hours of 6 and 11pm.

Dd1 is ok, but was hideous yesterday. She was trantruming, saying 'no' to everything, she smacked both me & dd2, not hard but really out of character. In the end I shoved them both in the car and drove for an hour while they slept. Think we are over the worst (fingers crossed).

I'm also too honest about sleep & my sil was just round and saying that dd2 is too used to sleeping on me in the sling. That's really not the problem at all. And when dd woke up she said 'don't go up there, she's fine'. Honestly if someone wants to come and tell me how to get dd down in the evenings or to just fall asleep on her own then I would be open to any help! But most of the advice is 'just leave her'.

And of course they are all telling me to feed her solids. I did give her a suck of my peach last night which she seemed to like. She's, um, 5 months. Ish.

count he is adorable!

don't get me wrong, I talk to some people about it, but I have learned who not to talk about it too - ie the ones who say "just leave him".

I think I will wimp out of pupd till DH is here, I think it will be too much for just me.

meant to say bumper we started offering some food last weekend, at 5.5 months. Is most amusing watching his face!

CountBapula that is a seriously cute baby! Looks v intelligent too.(This would fit with my favourite theory that bad sleeper = super-clever baby.)

DS has had ok naps so far today and has fed a lot so am hoping tonight will be a better night - last night was rubbish. Am considering leaving the boy in his own room (I usually sleep in there with him) and returning to the marital bed to see if this means I wake up less. Fingers crossed for better sleep all round...

Aw, fanks

Ooh cosmosis, what did you give DS to eat? Good idea to give pupd a miss. I think you would need support. I am quaking in my boots

bumper glad things are okay.

pidgin DS has been in his own room the last few nights because I've had a cold and a very noisy cough. I hadn't wanted to move him in before 6 months but I was paranoid about waking him with my spluttering. I have found I've slept better because I'm not listening out for every little movement, so will probably keep him in there - he's right next door so I don't have to stumble too far in the wee small hours