The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Does ds take a bottle? Dh has started doing the odd night shift with a couple of bottles while I sleep on the sofa.

Are the anti-ds making you feel better? I have wondered about pnd. It's not just the tiredness, it's the shock of DS's temperament. DH and I are laid back, gentle sort of people. Having this tightly-wound, fidgety, intense, screamy baby has knocked me for six. And nobody understands what he's like. I wanted to cry today when the HV advised me to stop trying to get him to sleep and let him fall asleep of his own accord. How can I explain to her that it would never work? He'd stay awake for hours and then the screaming would start.

The same HV (who is lovely BTW) came to visit a couple of weeks ago and said she wasn't worried about me having PND because I had make-up on

DS will take a bottle but I've never been able to express enough for a full feed. It would take 3-4 days of quite concerted expressing to have enough, and DS needs a lot of attention during the day so I never really get round to it. Know I should get to grips with it, though.

Sorry to butt in, but would you consider giving DS formula rather than expressed milk CountBapula? My DS (7 weeks) is a terrible sleeper and the only way I get by is by having DH do a shift with formula. I think if I had to express it would take the good out of it if you see what I mean. Prolonged sleep deprivation is really bad for your mental health.

Funnily enough my first mw always said she would be more worried if she came round and we were in full make up rather than in bed! She should know that sometimes it's the ones who seem like they are coping best who aren't.

It's been less than a week anyway, so they've not kicked in yet. But the odd night off has helped, though bizarrely the first few times I didn't feel any better, but after Tuesday night I actually did.

I express best in the morning before I feed dd. Plus I find if I've missed a feed it is easier to express.

Yes, I put make-up on most days, even if I'm not planning on leaving the house. For me it's a way of reconnecting with my pre-baby self - a kind of coping mechanism. I had depression as a teenager and I always wore make-up then too!

Writer, yes, I am getting to the point where I am going to have to give in and give him some formula. DH has been trying to convince me for weeks. I am so passionate about bfing (I was bf until I was two) and so wanted to get to six months ebf. Silly really - nobody's handing out medals, and it's meaningless compared to my physical and mental health. We are going to try pu/pd the week after next, and if that doesn't work, I've said we will give him formula at the 10pm feed.

I mentioned to my mum the other day that people were suggesting formula, and she said, "oh, you don't want to give him that crap!" She ff my brother because her HV gave her crap bf advice, having desperately wanted to bf, which is maybe why she carried on bfing me so long. We were both shit sleepers as babies, BTW!

I have the opposite problem with my mum count, she is pretty anti bfing. You are right about medals though, you don't have to tell your mum - although if you are anything like me you won't be able to help yourself. I still haven't told my mum about my anti-d's. She is a psychotherapist and she'll want to dissect it.

Hi was wondering if i could join the thread. Only just seen it : ) i thought i was the only one still trying 2 get dd2 to sleep at night, all my friends babies sleep at night so its really hard to say how bad it gets. My dd2 is 21 wks and has never slept through. Last night she went down at 11.30 and slept till 2 then was awake every other half hr, im so tired i can't even function anymore. I'vd tried everything. Dream feed, swaddling with a woombie and postioners, cc, patting. She is weaned and even has porrige at 9.30 then about 4oz of formula at 10.30. Tonight it took 2hrs to get her to sleep. She has never spent a full night in her cot, she ends up in the swing or in bed with me. I do hope she will start sleeping soon. In the daytime she will only sleep for up to half an hour. The only time she will stop crying during the day is if i take her out in the pram. I think that she is so tired that is why she seems to cry most of the time. I've notice she is very pleasent after her nap but that doesn't last that long.

Hi watersprite, that sounds terrible. Has she always been like this? DS has always been a bit crap in the sleep department but it's been particularly awful since 15 weeks (he's also 21 weeks).

Count - you're description of your DS earlier sounds just like my DS. We are continuing with the shush pat but I am trying desperately to do it in a way which involves as little crying as possible after the first few awful nights. It's interesting reading about various DH's opinions. My DH thinks our shush pat week has been broadly a success as DS has been self settling eventually and has done some longer stretches at night, whereas I'm not sure it's worth it if it's going to involve DS getting so upset - the crying is wearing me down more than the tiredness. Trouble is we had lots of crying anyway in the evenings particularly when DH was settling him so guess he feels it's not so different. Difference was I would usually rush in and take DS of him and find a way to comfort him. It was always changing though and I had to keep trying to find something new - it's like he learns what makes him sleepy and then resists it. Someone recommended the NCSS book earlier and I have that but it assumes you can actually get your DC to sleep in the first place and it's more about getting them to sleep through.
If anyone is going to try shush pat or PUPD I'd recommend writing down what things are like for a week before as it's really hard to judge if things are getting better.
This week has made me realise one thing though and that is for us DS will self settle if we can get him calm enough in the cot. After the success of flashing my mobile at him the other night I ordered a light box, but impatient for it to arrive I improvised with a lansinoh breast pad box with holes poked in it and a head torch. Using that and the hairdryer I was able to get him to settle within about 20 mins without crying which is amazing - shame he woke nearly every hour for the rest of the night but it at least makes me think we can do it.
Hope you all had better nights than us.

watersprite that does sound really tough. Will she go in a carrier during the day or is she too big now? Would that help? I sometimes put DS in a baby carrier and bounce on a gym ball we still have from my pregnancy when he's bad.

Hi watersprite, no exclusivity on this thread, you just have to have a shit sleep or some really good advice!

Sounds hard going for you. In my experience 'sleep begets sleep' so the more sleep dd has the better she is. It sounds like if you could crack one thing the rest would get better.

Anyone else read that thread aibu to want to punch people who talk loudly near my pram with sleeping baby? It was half joking but I completely empathise with the op. When you have a baby that doesn't nap you will do anything (love the torch and breast pad!). The amount of times I have done the 'whispered shout' to dd1 as she comes in wanting me to put octonauts on just as I have spend half an hour getting dd2 to sleep!

Just read the pram thread. This is what I meant earlier when I said most people don't understand what it's like to have a shit sleeper. I would love for DS to be able to sleep through noise, but he is just a really light sleeper, and he just suddenly got that way. One minute he would sleep curled on my chest for two hours while I chatted to friends over coffee, the next he started waking at the slightest noise/light and I had to start putting him down in his cot in a dark room with white noise on. I didn't train him that way, it's just how he is. Though funnily enough, he won't sleep in the pram or sling unless there's traffic noise - I can't walk him in the park or anywhere nice, it has to be along grotty main roads!

Thought this was a gem:

"put her in her cot and wait for her to go to sleep on her own. She may cry for a bit at first, but after a day or so she will have got the message and then you won't have to walk endlessly around while chavs yawp within spitting distance of the pushchair."

Oh and bumper I saw you mentioned distracted feeding on the other thread. We've got that too - the slightest thing and DS pops off - only difference is he beams at me, sometimes for several minutes, without even blinking

He's such a little weirdo but he is ace.

judys love the improvising with the lansinoh box and torch - made me laugh out loud - how very Blue Peter of you!

Thank you, I am the OP from the pram thread. People just don't get it do they? No one chooses to have a baby that only sleeps in a moving pram and can wake at the slightest noise. This is not my doing. FFS. It makes me want to PUNCH THEM.

And yes, I firmly believe you are right, if day time sleep is better, night time sleep is better. My 5 months olds naps are shite at the moment and now her night sleep has gone to pot too. Never ending.

Agree with everyone about the napping thing - ds did nap better yesterday and last night was slightly better. Still up 3 times but had longer sleep chunks thank god. bumper I have given up on evenings as ds shows no signs of wanting to sleep at 7pm and i was just getting pissed off a d miserable stuck upstairs for hours. So now we do bath at 8 then start night feed at about half past and he goes down at about 9.15. Which isn't ideal but better than before I think.

Going to start putting him in cot this weekend which will no doubt fuck things up again. Hey ho.

DH has taken the day off today to help look after DS because I'm still really poorly (6 months' crap sleep appears to have knackered my immune system). He's put DS down for both naps so far today and he's slept for ages! With me he only does 45 minutes max. He's now been asleep for an hour and a half! why doesn't he do that when I'm home alone with him and desperate for sleep?!

well DS didn't manage to self settle last night, but we had a better night anyway. Went to bed at 7.15ish, woke at 12.30, 3 and 5. I went to bed at 9 so I got from 9-12.30 which is the longest sleep I've had in a long time :)

Ooh Cosmosis, that sounds great!

Well, DH has completely shown me up. He's been in charge of DS's sleep all day, doing all naps including a walk in the sling. Now he's put him to bed and DS didn't cry once. I cannot remember the last time that happened, which suggests that it must have been several weeks ago.

He has just pointed out, like the lovely man he is, that if he had to do this every day he wouldn't have the patience, so maybe that's why today has gone so well - DS has had 3.5 hrs' naptime today, which is very rare. Let's see what the night brings ...

Hope everyone having better night than us. Ds up for an hour at half one and now up again. I could weep.

Ah that's brilliant count! Just put DH in charge every weekend and you can rest then :)

sorry to hear it was a bad night salander, I hope things improved a bit?

Sorry salander.

Great for you though count. Remember that dh doesn't smell of milk either, that might have helped. And it is easier when you aren't dreading the night time. I'm sure the babies can smell desperation!

I definitely think DS can smell desperation!

Unfortunately he was up every 1-2 hours last night. Urgh. He's got my cold, so is very snuffly, and I think I kept waking him with my coughing. But at least we had a break from the screaming!

Inspired by judy's DIY light show, I dug out this Winnie the Pooh lightbox thing that my colleagues got me before I went on mat leave. We had initially dismissed it as horrid plastic tat, but it does play nice tinkly music. I put it on last night when rocking DS to sleep and he stopped crying right away. Think this might prove useful when we attempt pu/pd next week.

Sorryyou had bad nights salander and count. Pretty much the same here. I fed DS 5 times last night which is pretty bad going and DH settled him a few more times. Glad the lights helped to begin with though Count. Afraid DS rejected my homemade effort and the new star projector thingy I bought last night. He was very tired and cranky though so might try again tonight but just think he learns quickly something makes him sleepy and rejects it!
Not sure where we're going to go with our shush pat experiment. Things haven't got any better but at least we can keep DS relatively calm when settling him by picking him up when he gets upset and sometimes getting him to take a dummy.
Have written out a list of possible things to try including earlier bed, later bed, co-sleeping, staying in the room with him after he settles all evening for a week so I can settle him immediately, rigid routine, longer naps (which is probably not possible), more naps, less naps. Was so hard last night feel I have to do something but have no idea how we can make this better.

Someone sent me today. Quite amusing - thought some of you would relate to it. I feel her pain!