The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Sounds like no-one had a great night last night. Eventually brought ds into our bed at half 4 as was going off my head. Was a real low point and v tearful today but thinking surely tonight can't be as bad????! Fed ds to sleep on bed this afternoon and both slept for 2 hours. I feel so guilty about feeding to sleep, rod for own back etc, but there is just no other way he goes down. Hey ho. Sorry for whinge. Hope folk have better nights tonight.

Count, bump, the thread has moved on a but since your posts but I wanted to chime in and say that I too have been to see my gp, been diagnosed with pnd bit I think it's tiredness more than anything. I too have been shocked by ds' temperament as I just had no idea that babies could be like this!

Did anyone else have a difficult birth and feel like this has had a lasting impact? We are still seeing a cranial osteopath as I had a very loooong pushing stage which they think has led to a lot of tightness in his occiput. Basically the co's theory is that as many major nerves run through here (eg the vagus nerve) he is permanently over-stimulated and finds it hard to switch off. After last week's session he slept for FOUR hours straight - incredible! Although sadly not permanent...:o Plus when I woke my boobs were in agony!

Just read the pram thread and totally empathise! We live in a very noisy house (4 adults and 2 dogs) so I often feel like this even at home. My beloved dog, who has always been a bit, ahem, spirited, has become the bane of my life, poor thing :(

Also, would anyone be interested in a separate thread to post a summary of your current sleeping situation and your plan of action? so we can pinch ideas So that we can spur each other on, sort of like the dieting threads?

plasticspoon - hope you're getting good support for the pnd. I think a plan of action thread sounds good - am feeling a bit more motivated today after reading the naps thread that's going on at the moment.
We had our second visit to the CO this week and am not sure it's helping. She said there is a lot of tension in his head and that he may be a sucky baby as it can relieve it. Have another appointment in 2 weeks and not sure if I should cancel it. She did say it might have helped more if I'd come earlier. When did you start?

Well we lost the plot last night and had a row at 4.30 am about cio.

We can't carry on like this and are going to have to tackle it, so will do the pu/pd thing. Do we have to do it for all night wakings? I think we're going to have to pick set times for feeding, ie at around the 10pm and 3am is wakings, and then do the pu/pd thing for all others, does that sound ok to you?

ps have reported the post above for advertising.

Cosmosis we have also reached our limit and will be doing pu/pd this weekend. The stress of it all is making me ill and DH and I have become co-habiting babysitters.

I am going to take the approach you describe - ie decide when feed times will be (DS tends to feed to sleep at night) and pu/pd outside these times.

We could do it together and compare notes. I am dreading it, though.

Count/cos - sorry you guys are feeling so bad. How old are both your babies? Was thinking about pu/pd too but ds only about 4 months so not sure it would work. I read bits of the BW book and think it advised it for naps too.

Things no better here. Up at 4 for an hour. Ds and I both in tears by the end. Bleh.

count i am on my own this weekend so will need handholding anyway!

salander ds is 5.5 months. I think pu/pd ok for 4 month old, but you should try shh/pat first. am doing this till friday in the hope it works although so far it's resulted in him crying himself to sleep in my arms. admittedly took less time this afternoon than this morning.

Thanks cos. Will give that a bash first. I can help with handholding this weekend if you need!

We had a really bad night as well. First half was ok for us with DS waking every hour till 10.30pm for feed, then awake and fed at 1.30am and again at 3.30am. He then woke at 4am in a good mood and didn't go back to sleep until 5am when I took him in bed with us. At 6am when he woke again I still hadn't got back to sleep from the 3.30am feed so abandoned him and DH and went to the spare room for an hour of sleep. Felt terrible this morning and was teary with despair. I've had worse nights but it's just the cumalative effect.
One small bright spot is I managed to shsh pat DS to sleep for 3 naps - once in 15 mins and once in 5 mins with no crying (have gone bit nap obsessive today and fed him to sleep for anohter one and had in the carrier for another as well - not sure what effect 5 naps will have...). Am writing this before I settle him for bed as wanted to write something positive! The debate me and DH keep having is which of the 2 problems we need to tackle - how not to take hours to settle him and how to make him sleep more than one or two cycles. Am hoping the two are linked.
Happy to give a bit of support as well. We're on week 5 of this extra bad sleep (was bad enough before) and know how soul destroying it is. Like your comment about co-habiting babysitters count. DH and I barely speak and when we do it's all sleep strategies. Main form of communication is texts saying," Are you ok? Want to swap"

salander DS is 5 months on Wednesday. We've been doing shush/pat since about 11/12 weeks. It worked great until 15 weeks, which was when his sleep went completely tits up. I could shh/pat/jiggle til drowsy (without crying if I'd timed it right), put him down and soothe him to sleep in the cot. It stopped working with the four-month sleep regression. He will now only accept being put down asleep and usually cries himself to sleep in my arms :( having started wailing when we zip him into his sleeping bag and he realises it's sleep time.

Shh/pat never seemed to help him self-soothe either - ie he could never fall back to sleep without help from us if he woke in the night.

judy's we did CO when DS was about 5 or 6 weeks old. You can find my account of it on the original newborn sleep nightmares thread, but basically it seemed to have an effect at the time (eg sleeping for long periods after treatment) but nothing lasting. FWIW the birth was more intense than difficult; I was induced and things progressed quite quickly (3cm to fully dilated in 3.5 hrs), which the CO said could have resulted in some head-squishing (obviously he used more technical terminology than that). They used the ventouse as well, which is well-known for causing the grumps in newborns.

Cosmosis is there anyone who can be around to help you this weekend? I've been led to believe that pu/pd can be very hard work, tough going and involve a lot of crying. You might need someone to pour you a stiff drink give you some moral support.

count sadly we have no family near by and all my friends who would be of any use will be fighting to get their own to sleep. sounds like we had similar births, although mine was not induced.

well we had a better night. down at 7.30, fed at 11.30, woke at 12.30 but got back to sleep, fed at 2.30 and 5.30. so 12.30 the only random waking, which is was less than usual :)

hope every one elses went ok.

Hey all, count and Cosmosis sorry things are so bad :(

We seem to be back down to one feed a night but still not going down in the evening.

To top it off dd1 has just come down with chicken pox so we are going to be under quarantine for at least the next week! Longer if dd2 then gets it!

count that's why I'm a bit sucipious of CO - they say you need it if you have a CS and the baby's head doesn't get squished but also to sort out any squishing from a natural birth as well .
Our night was pretty similiar to normal (bad) but there were a few things which are making me feel more positive. DS was asleep about 7pm with no crying but woke after one sleep cycle. I fed him but he still didn't sleep for an hour. When he did he pretty much self settled (I realised the patting and singing I was doing was disturbing him so stopped and he fell asleep). He then slept from 9pm till 11.30pm which hasn't happened for ages. DH and I were sat in the kitchen listening to the monitor and willing him to get past the first sleep cycle! Feels like a little step forward and have been able to settle him for 2 naps so far today without any crying.

Sorry about the chicken pox bumper - hope dd2 avoids it.

oh that sounds positive Judy!

Sorry about the cp Bumper, that sounds horrible :(

Evening all, all completely tits up here so forgive me having a little moan. Another bad night last night, with the beginning of the night starting to deteriorate - depressing as that was the good bit previously! Got ds to sleep at about 9 and he proceeded to wake 7 times before 11.30. He has a cold and can't breathe very well through his nose and so is very upset on waking and hard to resettle. Ended up lying so that I was completely encircling him with my arms and waking the next time he did with a horrendous crick in my neck.

Even more fecking annoying is that I've started waking when he moves but doesn't fully awake and then lying there for ages while he sleeps.

Judy, great to see on the other thread that you are having some luck with naps. I need some of your discipline! Wrt co, I'm noy sure either as although we do get the temporary sleep improvements I worry that this is due to the trauma of the trip as ds hates the carseat and screams all the way there and back :(

count and cosmosis you can buy a mini version of BW with just the stuff on sleep for about £7. we have it but haven't had the courage to use it yet. I'm trying to get together a plan based on NCSS but can't decide which problem to tackle first!

Hello, was wondering if I could join your merry band, please? My DS is 14 weeks, sleep has never been great but fairly terrible since 8 weeks. A brilliant night for us would be a sleep of three hours from 7.30 to 10.30, then a feed, then a sleep of two hours, then a feed, then waking every hour or so till 7. A bad night is waking every hour to 90 mins, with a wakeful period usually beginning around 3am, when DS is ready to get up and play, and I am ready to weep with tiredness and remember my pre-baby sleep habits...

We have a nighttime routine, but DS's trouble is staying asleep and a total inability to self-settle - he also can only sleep after feeding at night, so I free loads at night.

So I don't have any good tips as I am building every rod for my own back there is, but have found your thread v comforting and can offer solidarity and sympathy at least!

Pidgin you have described my life exactly :) I have to say though, I still think we did the right thing. DS is now 5.5 months and showing signs of being able to self settle when the stars are correctly aligned or whatever so now we are more confident to not feed to sleep and not respond to every cry.

Things are definitely improving, we are having much longer stretches of sleep - still short by most peoples standards, but 3 hours or 4 hours is more normal now rather than 40 mins! And by being consistent with how we are getting him to sleep - cradled in our arms using a very firm and rhythmical pat on the back and a shhhhh, it has gone from 15/20 mins of intermittent crying and yawning, to sometimes 30/40 seconds, and no more than 10 mins. I know crying not ideal, but I don't think there would be a way for us to stop feeding to sleep without crying - even the pantley pull off mostly resulted in crying - and at least this way he is still getting full body contact and cuddles etc.

He self settled again at bedtime last night, and once in the night (although he woke himself up almost immediately after that one).

It sounds as though your hard work is paying off, Cosmosis - it's really reassuring to think that the self-settling might come in time... I tried the pantley pull off last night and it was an abject failure - as I held his mouth shut DS gave me a look which plainly showed he thought I had lost my mind, then began to yell... Do you use the pat & shhh technique to settle for naps as well as at night?

Hope everyone has a better night tonight!

yes, am doing it for all sleeps - unless it's a nap in the car or pram - I can't be doing with having to be at home for all naps so am not doing it that strictly.

Still feeding to mostly asleep here then putting in basket. Up at 1.30 then 3 last night then immediately woke again but dh managed to settle him without a feed then slept til 6. So better but still just no sign of him self settling. Feed to sleep at night and rocked on rocking chair for naps. No idea how to change that. Shh pat not a success so far.

cos that sounds more positive, hurrah.

bumper hope the cp is settling and you are surviving.
Hope everyone has better night tonight.