The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Hi all and welcome to hell our thread missrose and boilanegg! New members always welcome with glee and sadness!

Narmada, sounds awful! Can't believe your night away was ruined! Still, it is true that at least you didn't have to look after ds. The closest I've had is a really bad migraine which made me sick when dd2 was about 3 months. Had to keep delatching her to go and throw up.

Count, sounds like you have made a bit of a breakthrough. How did you leave things with Andrea? Sounds like the aquarium was fab.

Judy, don't worry I think most of us are sticking around for the forseeable!

Usual erracticness here. No rhyme or reason to wakings but for the most part she goes down in the evenings (with usually one resettle, no feed). The other good news is we have lost the swaddle. We did it so gradually, first one nap, then another, the after first waking in the night. There were no tears. It hasn't significantly helped her sleep, but hasn't made it worse either. It's so hot in our house I think she is grateful for it to be off now.

Hello, thank you for the welcome. Some of the posts I've read sound so familiar I don't know whether to to be happy or sad!

Just to introduce myself - I have a lovely, almost 7mo DD. She's breastfed on demand and we've been doing BLW for the last couple of weeks. Up until four months she would nap 3 times a day and sleep from 10pm until 6am with one wake up around 3am. In case that sounds too idyllic, she did scream the house down between 6pm til 10pm every night. My DH had just started a new job that involved lots of working late so lots of fun was had all round.

At 4 months she suddenly started insisting I put her to bed at 7pm. Amazing! Imagine how smug I felt at not doing a routine and it all working out. The downside is that she wakes at 1am, 3am, 4am and 6am. This was kind of ok (!!!) when all it involved was picking her up, feeding her or calming her down and putting her back in the cot.

For the last two weeks she has been waking herself up when put back in the cot by hitting and scratching at her head and face. She did have a bit of eczema so I've been heavily moisturising her scalp and giving her Calpol if it looks like teething pain. I don't know why she is doing this. I've tried holding her arms down but this is counterproductive as she sucks her thumb. This means I can't put gloves on her either. She just won't let us put her back in the cot now and I've no idea what to do.

Blimey, writing it all down makes it seem even more hopeless :( Sorry I've gone on a bit, any tips gratefully received.

Well we decided to move him in to his own room and to say it was a disaster was a bit of an understatement. He did have a bit of a temperature so in hindsight it was a stupid idea because he?s always clingy when he?s poorly but we?d had (another) row about the fact he?s still in our room and he really is getting too big for the basket.

Getting him to sleep was easier than I expected, but that was the only bit that was. He then woke every 20-30 mins and took about the same to get back to sleep. Eventually after another fight I took him back into bed at 1, and he only woke once between then and 6. However DH and I seem not to be speaking.

The only positive things I can say about the whole experience is that he only had one tiny feed all night, and at midnight he managed to settle himself.

I hope you all had better results this weekend than I did.

Oh dear, catching up it sounds like there were a fair few grim weekends :(

Sorry to hear the move did not go so well Cosmosis, I guess it is a big change for your DS...though good that he did not feed much and self settled. You must feel knackered with that night though, and sorry that you and your DH are arguing...a non sleeping baby is such a strain, isn't it?

I have to shame facedly admit that we did not start the restricted feeds yesterday . The "reason" was that we got back from the ILs later than planned, but really think we were just tired and couldn't face it. At the first wake up he cried a lot so I just brought him into bed with us.

Going to try tonight but think it'll be tough.

Oh dear Cos, that doesn't sound good. Could the wakings have been because he was ill rather than in his own room? DS slept in his own room in the evenings (ie from his bedtime to our bedtime) from 3 or 4 months old - we checked on him regularly when he was in there, then brought him back in with us after the 10/11pm feed. Could that be a way to ease the transition a bit maybe? He went in there all night at 5 months (wanted to wait until 6 months but I caught an awful cough and kept waking him up) and didn't seem that bothered, maybe because he was already used to sleeping in there for part of the night.

Bumper my last call with Andrea focused mainly on my PND. I think she was worried that her not having been able to help much would leave me unsupported and in a state, so she encouraged me to get
back in touch with my HV etc. She also, very sweetly, said I could email her if I ever wanted to run anything by her.

DS slept for 3 hours from bedtime, then I woke him for a dreamfeed at 10. He slept from 10:40 until 1, then was up pretty much every hour after that until 7. So much for the sodding aquarium ...

Yes, I think the wakeups probably were mainly due to feeling poorly, he is always more clingy then anyway. He is being v clingy during the day atm as well though ? not sure if it?s a reaction to being at the CMs ? maybe he?s not settling in as well as we thought? It?s really unlike him, he has always been so happy to play on his own and all weekend he just didn?t want to be put down.

CM says he may be teething though, she has noticed vinegary smelly poo, which apparently is a sign of teething.

Wouldn?t it be all so much easier if they could just tell you what the problem is!!

Missrose, that sounds tough. No advice but my DD was a bit like that in that she would never go down till after 11 then would sleep five hours or so. Now she goes down in the evening but wakes between one and three times a night.

Cosmosis, hideous for you. I really sympathise on the arguing. Hopefully you and DH both realise in the light of day that there is a reason for your arguing and that it is normal.

Count, it was nice that Andrea thought about your PND. Have you started the ADs yet?

We are stil having issues with vomitting here. Was up for 2 hours at 3am, 3 towels, 2 baby gros, and one set of pjs for me later and she eventually went down around 5, and not without a moan. Went to the dr who was none the wiser, has given us an inhaler to help with the coughing, and suggested water instead of milk at night but going to try the inhaler first and see if that works. If she is still being sick in another week dr is going to refer us to a paediatrician. I'm wondering if it is an allergy or intolerance.

Sorry cosmosis, I didn't mean that to sound patronising, it's just when you are in the middle of it it is easy to feel like it (i.e. your relationship) is worse than it is, when really it is just the situation making it all seem shit. Sometimes I have to remind DH of that.

Bumper - sounds awful. Could be intolerance. Seem to remember I've tried to ram my dairy theory down your throat on numerous occasions (and apologies for that) - but one other thing to consider if she's still primarily BF (and you've already cut out dairy) is whether she may be reacting to soy. Babies who are milk protein sensitive are often soy sensitive too. This is part of the reason why soy formulas aren't usually suitable alternatives for those with cow's milk issues. Soy is in everything, mind ....

Has she been vaccinated? I don't suppose it could be whooping cough -hope not, but you never know? or parapertussis - my DD had that when she was about 9 months. I think that rarely babies who've been vaccinated against whooping cough can still get it. But it does have quite a distinctive presentation and you'd hope a doctor wouold have ruled it out....!

Bumper that sounds horrid - was last night any better? And how was your night Cosmosis?

Raising I've been failing to restrict feeds too. DS has been waking hourly the last two nights and taking ages to settle and crying a lot. No idea why - he's happy as larry during the day - but I feel like I've been run over by a truck. Cannot see a way out of this. Can't believe he's 7 months old and still sleeping so badly :(

Bumper doc wasn't keen on giving me ADs until I'd tried a few self-help measures first (eg giving formula, which I keep wimping out of).

bumper that sounds grim :( don't worry you didn't sound patronising at all, it's a very valid point. Things are always worse in the middle of the night. Anyway all ok again now.

We had a better night. He went to sleep easily, but then woke every hour till 10.30 - but settled with just a hand on his shoulder each time. Then at 10.30 it took an hour to settle him. In the end we put his basket in the cot and put him in his basket. he then slept till 2 when I fed him, then till 4.30. At 4.30 I couldn't settle him so shut the door on him and he settled in about 3 minutes, and slept till 7.30. He was cross though, not distressed.

I know exactly what you mean count DS is 8 months next week, when he was born I thought he'd be sleeping through by now!! Might it be a growth spurt, DS defnitely had one a couple of weeks ago.

Glad your night was better Cosmosis.

Count and Cosmosis I am with you on the thinking they'd be sleeping better by now! DS is 9 months today, and pretty much still has the sleep pattern he had as a newborn!! The only difference is that he goes to bed much earlier.

I did start to restrict the feeds to 5 minutes last night. The worst bit was at 11ish when he screamed for 30 mins. It doesn't sound that long but he was totally hysterical, I've never heard him like that before. It did really make me question if I was doing the right thing. The other wake ups (2 hourly) he went back down with little fuss thankfully.

I am dreading the 3 minute feeds, as he is still actively feeding at that stage. By 5 minutes he is winding down. Aargh!

Count - good luck if you start the shortened feeds again. Your nights sound like a killer at the moment. I've always just brought DS into bed with us when its got too bad but I remember you saying that your DS doesn't sleep in bed with you. That must be so hard as you don't get any respite. Maybe you should crack open the formula, even if it means just an extra few hours of sleep for you when your DH does a feed.

Hi everyone, can I join? I've been lurking since DS was born but haven't joined as I keep thinking that tonight will be the night he sleeps! But he is now 15 weeks and we had our worst night ever last night so I've got over my delusion.

The thing is, he's a good sleeper! Naps are great, four a day of 45-60 minutes. He goes down in his big cot, unswaddled, at half seven. He used to sleep till seven with feeds at eleven ish, two ish and five ish but recently more and more non-feed wakeups are happening. last night he woke ever forty five mins from half seven till eleven. After that feed he would only sleep on us so on DH's chest till two then in bed with me till four, another feed then till seven, with half hourly wakings when I popped his dummy in.

I'm on my knees. I think he is cmp intolerant, already on gaviscon for continual puking. I'm on day three of no dairy and this morning his poo was yellow not fluoro green so I'm hopeful.

Sorry for the essay, his sleep is all I can talk about now!

Hope your DD gets better bumper - sounds stressful. Sorry thing aren't much better for most people either.
We're still at my MIL but areeaving in a couple of hours - going to risk the evening drive again. There won't be many nights left for sleep training but it's been really nice being here. DH and I got to go out for lunch yesterday on our own. I really wish we had some relatives close to us but nice to get a break for a little.
Hello bigkids - hope you're going through a blip.

I've just come out of DD's room and she's fast asleep. I did give her a dose of the ibrupofen mixture that I can't remember the name of now and she's out like a light. I'm a bit worried she may have had teething pain all this time and I never realised. She's very congested - another teething symptom? - and I wonder if that's why she keeps waking up and wants to be held?

Cosmosis We moved her into her own room a week ago and it's been ok, mainly because I've made a bed on the floor. When she's up loads I stay in there with her. Also, I can put her next to me which is helping her settle. I don't know if this is something you could try? I've also got round to putting up a blackout blind and feeding her in there during the day. She seems to have gotten used to it fairly quickly and it does seem to help that I'm there with her. Hopefully at some point she will go for longer stretches on her own but it does seem easier if I'm the one moving around and she's consistent.

Hope your LO is a bit better Bumper, the vomiting sounds really upsetting,
hopefully they'll work out what the problem is soon and you can start making it better.

bigkids We had a couple of weeks of green poo, which the HV said was nothing to worry about even though I was changing her nappy 10 times a day! Are you BFing? I eventually worked out that DD wasn't latching on properly - I think we'd both got a bit lazy with it - and also wasn't feeding for very long so not getting past the hind milk. I worked on the latch and in a day we were back to yellow poos. Lovely!

That's interesting... I have an appointment with a lactation consultant coming up because I think I have a very fast let down and he gulps a lot which is the cause of a lot or our problems. Feeds are five minutes only!

Well, I say that. I think he's in a massive growth spurt. Just fed for an hour and obviously still hungry so gave a bottle and he had eight ounces!! He then passed out to a dead sleep. I hated doing it. We already do a ff at eleven so DH cn do one and now another top up :( I know that if I keep doing this my supply will not last. But he wants to cluster feed like he did for the first six weeks and I am just too tired already to do it. I don't think I could cope with that again.

bigkids [waves] my DD would drink a full bottle even when I knew she was actually pretty full because I could hear the milk sloshing around in her tummy. I think BF babies sometimes just drink a whole bottle down because they have trouble controlling the flow of milk from the teat - don't take it as an indication that your supply's not up to scratch.

If your son's feeding in 5 minutes and gulps a lot - hmm, I am definitely wondering about overactive letdown and oversuppply. The LC will have a view I'm sure.

Know you said you suspect cow's milk issues - are you going to replace the FF with a prescription formula or just cut it out completely? Aptamil Pepti doesn't taste too bad as they go but I still have to sweeten DS's bottles with nesquik.... neocate, nutramigen etc were all flatly rejected by DS even with flavouring.

Arrrgghh sick again! Never ending! Trialling a new cot instead of the hammock tonight. So far so good, apart from the vomiting. She was sleeping arms stretched out as wide as they could go bless her! Wish me luck for the rest of the night.

Can you buy aptamil pepti? I have sma soya but he hates it.

He woke every hour :(

A GP can prescribe hydrolysed milks like pepti, but some are reluctant because they're quite costly. Soya formula isn't usually suitable for milk protein intolerance sufferers anyway as it's often also an allergen for those with this issue.
Sorry he woke so frequently. What a nightmare for you!

PS, if the GP tries to fob you off with soya, tell them no thanks, especially as you have a little boy - there are concerns about phytoestrogens in soy and future fertility, as well as the cross-sensitivity issue.

fast let down & oversupply can definitely lead to green poo issues. Also I agree with narmada, a bf baby drinking a whole bottle after a feed just means the milk is there and easy to access, not necessarily that they're still hungry.

I feel like I have real progress to report!

He fell asleep pretty much on his own. A small amount of chest patting when I laid him down, that?s all. He woke at 11, DH went to settle him. We have discovered he settles better if you leave him alone! So all we do now is go in when he starts crying (he always wakes crying) to check he doesn?t need anything and for a quick bit of reassurance for him that we?re still here and then go back out. It does go against my instincts to leave the room when he is crying, but he settles in a couple of minutes rather than half an hour - he was back to sleep in about two minutes. He then woke at 1 when I fed him, put him back down awake and he went straight to sleep. Then woke at 5, and was back to sleep almost instantly. Then at 6 he woke again so I fed him as I knew that would be morning for him.

That is the best night we have had since Christmas.

That is brilliant Cosmosis, well done! Definitely sounds like a breakthrough.

That definitely isn't the case for DS though. Last night, putting him to bed was an epic three-hour struggle, including an hour-long screamathon and about three feeds. At one point I left the room to take a breather and gather my thoughts, and he went ballistic - I heard a 'clunk' and he'd flung himself against the cot bars again :(

Feel so trapped knowing CC isn't an option, even if we wanted to do it. He woke pretty much every hour again, too, for the third night running. Then I read this:

"According to The Wonder Weeks, 'You can expect a fussy period to begin around 34 weeks, or between 32 and 37 weeks. This fussy period will often last for 4 weeks, but it may last anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks.'"

DS is 33 weeks corrected ... so maybe it's the 8 month sleep regression. We never even recovered from the 4 month one!

Oh count that sounds awful :(

could well be the 8m sleep regression. DS is 8m on 5th, but was 2 weeks late so does that mean he's over it or still has it to come?