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The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

998 replies

Bumperlicious · 14/02/2011 20:01

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

OP posts:
TheRtHonCountessOfBapula · 28/04/2011 10:14

Apparently it can happen at 8, 9 or 10 months Shock

More info here

Cosmosis · 28/04/2011 10:20

how nicely vague Grin

TheRtHonCountessOfBapula · 28/04/2011 10:29

I know ... very reassuring ... Grin

We can all just sit and wait for it sometime in the next two months, like the sword of Damocles (blimey - another classical reference!). The only thing I can be sure of is that it will happen to DS, as he's had every bloody growth spurt and sleep regression by the book, and has been a bloody nightmare for all of them!

bigkidsmademe · 28/04/2011 11:07

Well the lactation consultant agrees with all of you a d says it sounds like it isn't dairy problems but oversupply combined with four month regression. So am expressing two minutes before each feed and giving up caffeine in a desperate attempt to do something proactive!

I had no idea there was an eight month one too. Jeepers :(

narmada · 28/04/2011 11:12

That's good you have a kind-of answer! But I would have thought expressing would have made things worse - is that what she advised you to do??!! I thought block feeding was the way to go, e.g., feeding from the same breast for several feeds in a row.

Cosmosis · 28/04/2011 11:12

Have a google and a search on the bf forum re oversupply, I think block feeding can help, but don't know a great deal about that - not something we covered on the peer supporters course.

The news of the 8m regression has made my cheerfulness about last night vanish in anticipation of more crap sleeping to come!

narmada · 28/04/2011 11:13

FWIW, I've never noticed sleep regressions with my two. So there is hope!

bigkidsmademe · 28/04/2011 11:21

Yes she said to express so that the letdown isnt in his mouth; he bobs off so it hits him all over his face and then he gets all gulpy and bobs off and on. So then I switch him as he gets so fussy. Apparently this is the worst thing I could do, and getting rid of the initial letdown will make it easier to do block feeding without him getting upset. Perhaps!

Another question- should I get rid of his dummy habit now or get through this regression then try?

TheRtHonCountessOfBapula · 28/04/2011 11:22

Oh no Cos, didn't mean to shit on your picnic ruin your enjoyment of last night. I've read threads on here where people's babies had horrendous four month regressions but skipped the later ones. It might never happen ...

Glad the LC was helpful bigkids.

Cosmosis · 28/04/2011 11:33

Nah, I was only messing count - I am under no illusion that one reasonable night means everything fixed forever! I must admit to a snurk at bigkid?s post above about not joining till now because every night she thinks is the night he will sleep through though. I was the same until about 2 months ago, and I have to say that when I realised what foolish delusions I was under, I became a lot more accepting of his shit sleep than I was before that!

Re the dummy, it?s up to you. I ditched it because I didn?t think it was helping, but if you find it is, then keep on with it.

narmada · 28/04/2011 11:42

OH I see re letdown. That makes sense, then. Re the dummy, I have to say that since we ditched DS's, his sleep has improved. I wouldn't worry about the regression - there'll always be something that could possibly interfere with sleep so why not have a try and if it doesn't work then you can always go back to using it.

JudysDreamHorse · 28/04/2011 11:53

Eurgh, count, your night sounds truly awful Sad. Am not liking the sound of an 8 month sleep regression

Cosmosis · 28/04/2011 12:00

That is what I am quietly hoping Judy. If we can get to when he is just waking at 2ish for a feed, I will truly be a happy woman.

This 10.30/11ish waking is a stubborn one though ? he?s been doing that for a couple of months and seems to refuse to drop it. I have dried using it as a feed opportunity to see if he?ll sleep longer after it, but he just suckles back to sleep and doesn?t get a proper feed, so have stopped that. However, if he?s now not needing us to get back to sleep for it, then maybe it?s on his way out (have now probably jinxed it!).

narmada · 28/04/2011 12:41

Ds now in bed so can post more fully.....hoping he stays down for more than 25 minutes. I am busy looking at houses on rightmove. We have just been gazumped and there is literally nothing within a 3 mile radius that fits our criteria and budget. I have stubbed my toe again on the rocking horse in our 11 foot square living room and am desperate to move! Bloody school catchments. It's enough to want you to sell a kidney and send them private. If I wasn't opposed in principle, that is ..... anyway, rant over.

count oh no, I just cannot believe you are having such bad luck with DS's sleep. Come on, mini count, give your mum a break, you're doing her in! Seriously though, have you thought about taking it in turns at night with DH, so you each get a full nights' sleep every other night? Could you express in advance and retire to a spare room with some super-duper wax earplugs? That's the only way I survived DS's horrific first few weeks.

cos brilliant news! Long may it continue.

judy's also sounds positive. Keep it up, and don't worry too much about the crying - I think it's worth it [heartless mother emoticon] if it bears fruit, and your babe won't remember it.

narmada · 28/04/2011 12:56

25 minutes. Balls. I haven't even had my lunch. Gah.

Cosmosis · 28/04/2011 13:35

I second a night off for count i went into the spare room for the night a couple of months ago and left DH to it with some ebm. I swear it saved my sanity.

Sorry re house news narmada buying's a shitter isn't :(

narmada · 28/04/2011 14:35

Certainly is, cos, the irony being that for years we've not been able to even conteplate it because no deposit to speak of. Now we have a deposit thanks to a generous bequest from my poor uncle who had a stroke....but nothing to spend it on. I really wanted a garden for this summer for the children. I might post in chat and see if anyone wants to sell us their house!

Bumperlicioso · 28/04/2011 16:40

Hi all

Count I really feel for you. What a shit time you are having. I get about one night off a week and I look forward to it with relish. Plus there are quite a few mornings where dh goes into work late, and he has had a good week or so off last week and he has got v good at getting dd2 up in the morning and either amusing her or taking her with him to drop dd1 at nursery so I've had a few late mornings. He was a real PITA about it a while ago but since weaning and dd not being so desperate for milk he has been better at taking her.

She was in her new cot for the first time last night and like the deswaddling it hasn't made her sleep any better or worse. Vomiting at 11.30 or so, then up at maybe 3.30? It's all blending in now. Tried just resettling her, then giving her water but she was having none of it. Made an another appointment to see the dr on weds so hopefully he will refer us. Not sure if it is a milk allergy, but she is bfed and it only seems to have started since weaning so hopefully I won't have to restrict my diet.

Welcome bigkids btw.

Sorry about your house Narmada. We only rent but I can't imagine the stress of house buying on top of the moving crap itself!

4madboys · 28/04/2011 17:23

hi ladies, have been following this thread with interest and sympathy, my first three boys were terrible sleeps, we tried allsorts, nothing worked as such but they did all eventually sleep through, i found they all got a bit better by about 18mths, i know that will seem AGES away but there is light at the end of the tunnel!

i have thought of a few things for some of you tho

bumperlicious re the vomiting, my ds1 did the same thing, it started after he had a cough and was a nightmare he would do it every night, but we got good at telling when he was going to do it and had a bowl by the bed and would catch it in that so no changes of bedclothes or babygrows etc, we saw the gp etc and it was basically put down to the fact that coughs often make babies sick but that they can have a weak muscle at the top of their tummy? anyhow the being sick with the cough weakened it further and basically its just something that improves with age as the muscle strengthens, not helpful i know but he grew out of it by about 9mths...

re oversupply, i had this and did block feeding, you can try expressing a bit of, or just taking baby off the breast when you feel your milk about to let down and then catch the spray in a cloth and put baby on when its just dripping and not spraying out, again babies get better at coping with the fast flow as they get older.

cosmosis glad you had a better night, its fab that he can self settle so you know he will get there eventually and you said he was clingy during the day? this is common at his age 8mths? as they realise that things can go away and leave, you will notice that if he drops a toy he now looks for it, as they learn that just cos they cant see something they know its still there. but when you leave he doesnt know when or if you will come back, tis a pita, but again its a developmental phase and WILL pass, lots of cuddles and when you do leave him reassurance that you will come back and maybe keep talking to him when you walk about the room and leave the room.

all i can say to all of you is that it WILL get better honestly and dont feel it is anything you are or arent doing! i have 5 children the four boys who are now 11, 8, 6 and 3 and a 4mth old dd. out of the 5 the only one that was a good sleeper and generally still is is ds4, partly cos he sucks his thumb and could always self settle, but he has just always been good and i was AMAZED at having a baby that slept!

dd is not as bad as the first three but not as good as ds4, she has a dummy, the first of mine to have one, the first three used boob Hmm and tbh its good in that i can swaddle her and put her down and she generally dozes of in the pram during the day BUT if it falls out i sometimes have to put it back in, fine in the day but a pita at night, she is sleeping in our bed so its easy to stick it back in, but when its numerous times in the night......

also she will ONLY sleep swaddled and she is 20wks now! i am going to continue with it for now but once she has learned the hand co-ordination and control to put the dummy in herself when awake i may try not swaddling and start trying to teach her to put it back in, but we shall see, in the big scheme of things she does sleep, just wakes frequently at times. i half thought of getting rid of it but am a soft mummy who cant bear to hear her babies cry adn will do anything ie rock, cuddle, feed, co-sleep etc anythign so they are settled and dont cry too much! i really think we are all just meeting our babies needs by doing this and they DO grow up and dont need you so much, belieive me, soon they will be toddlers and you will wonder that they were ever so small and needy.

i do agree with routine and trying to be consistent with bedtimes i think that helps them know whats coming and merryn (my dd) def recognises nappy change, babygrow, swaddle, cuddle and then down to sleep. she was not so good a few weeks ago and required LOTS of pacing up and down and rockign of the pram to get her to sleep but has got better the last week or so, so maybe the 4mth sleep regression is passing? but tbh i think i am also better at recognising when she is tired, int he morning she needs a nap within 2hrs or so of getting up and then in the afternoon she can maybe go three hours without a nap but its best if she gets two decent long naps ie 2hrs during the day, or else she gets overtired and is a pita to settle for the evening.

anyhow i hope you dont mind me jumping in and if you have any tips on how to get her to sleep not swaddled, (she just fusses and knocks the dummy out) then i will be interested to hear them!

sorry this is so long and sorry i dont have any magic cures but i want you to know i have been where you all are and survived and gone on to do it again! Grin yes i really am mad! Grin

fingers crossed for a good night for you all xx

TheRtHonCountessOfBapula · 28/04/2011 19:24

Evening all.

Cos we have a waking before midnight that just won't budge. It can be anytime between 9:30 and 11:30 but always before midnight. He went through to 1 or 2 a couple of times at 3 months or so, but never since January.

Thanks all for your continuing sympathy. I too keep thinking to myself, "Tonight will be the night". How silly of me!

Re having a night off, I am just so crap at expressing. I can only get out an ounce or two at a time, so it takes several days to get enough for one feed. DH and I have agreed to try doing the late night feed with formula Shock this weekend so I can at least go to bed early and sleep 9-1ish if I'm lucky. Though might try EBM first. Bf ladies, how much EBM do you give per feed? Obviously depends on baby but be good to have a rough idea.

I'm v lucky in that DH gets up with DS every morning and gives him breakfast while I go back to sleep, even if DS wakes at 5am Shock. DH told me he treasures that time with DS and he wouldn't give it up for anything - bless him. So I do get to catch up a bit.

Sorry about the house narmada - maybe you should move to Bromley after all :) - actually Beckenham has a similar feel to Kingston I think, though not sure what the schools are like.

Thanks for your lovely post 4madboys - good to know they do all get the hang of it eventually.

We're going to try restricting night feeds again over the long weekend. DH is obviously off work, so can help in the night when if DS kicks off.

Hope you all enjoy the long weekend. I got DS this for the occasion - he looks so cute in it!

4madboys · 28/04/2011 19:57

countess bapula, they say 5oz is an average bfeed once they are past newborn age :)

TheRtHonCountessOfBapula · 28/04/2011 20:06

Oh goody, thank you :)

JudysDreamHorse · 28/04/2011 20:08

Oh dear. Just rocked DS to sleep sucking my finger..... After 20 mins of me sitting stroking him, patting him, singing, cuddling in the coy - anything but letting him suck - he was at the hicciping with crying stage. He was rubbing his eyes as well so gave it 15 more mins but there was no sign of him stoppping. I thought I'd rather stop then than after 2 hours.
Can I try again tomorrow or is that just torturing him? Maybe I can just try for naps. Not sure what sort if night will follow....

JudysDreamHorse · 28/04/2011 21:10

Hope you can decipher the post above. Still getting to grips with a new phone. DS woke after his usual 45 mins and have got him back to sleep with a little knuckle chewing and a lot of head stroking but thankfully not much crying.
I just feel I really need to wean him of sucking fingers. I already feel a bit funny about the way he automatically tries to chew any finger he gets his hands on but I'm worried he'll still be doing it when he's two! He's like a little finger addict - he even has little shaky hands when he's trying to get at them if I try and get him to sleep without them.
The dummy is a poor substitute but more socially acceptable than spending hours chewing on a hand. I guess I would care less if he slept but I think it is the reason he can't self settle. His jaw starts working as he comes through the sleep cycle.
Hope you're all having better nights. Next task for me is to not crack and take DS into bed with me when he first wakes me - I just start thinking how less tiring it'll be if he's next to me. Thik I need to sleep in his room but there is precious little floor space.

narmada · 28/04/2011 21:14

judy's there might be mileage in trying for the first nap of the day. That should be when he's least tired and should settle easiest. Or at least that's the case for my DS, could be projecting there....

countess(!) cute top. Ahhh. Hope the formula does something good and that you get a decent sleep. Has he had formula before? Might be worth a taste trial before you turn in for the night as it's not quite as sweet as BM. If it's just going to be a one-off, I would have no compuntion at all about putting a drop of golden syrup in it if he won't take it neat [crouches down in anticipation of a battering] But then I have to flavour my DS's milk with banana nesquik to get him to drink it so have significantly lowered my standards since my breastfed-till-2-years firstborn.....

Hi 4madboys, welcome to the thread and I bow down to you with five children!

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