The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Great stuff cos! A four hour stretch as well - hope it continues!

Can I join in the sleep training next week? I would quite like to night wean (or at least try what count did before of no feeds from 12 - 5), stop co-sleeping and go back to naps in the cot (oh, and stop him sucking to sleep as well....). We're at my MIL until Tuesday or Wednesday so will have all this to tackle when we get back. Oh, and get DH to settle him. Maybe I should just try one thing at a time...

We're back to feeding every 2 hours - it's got to stop before I crack.

Great stuff cosmosis!

judy I feel for you on the 2-hourly feeding. It's a killer, isn't it?

Got MIL staying tonight so hope DS isn't too noisy. We had a better night last night so here's hoping. I just made a roast chicken, roasted veg, couscous etc and thought we'd have him at the table with us. Yesterday he'd eaten brilliantly - demolished an orange wedge by sucking all the flesh off it, and polished off about three sticks of courgette dipped in tomato sauce. Today he gagged on everything we gave him - hasn't done for ages - including toast, which he normally puts away as if it's going out of fashion. Felt v as MIL is a bit about BLW and I felt like she thought I was a bit bonkers, if not downright irresponsible. I am normally quite calm about DS gagging as he usually sorts it out on his own, but DH gets v rattled by it.

oh, they all gag, count - they are amazingly effective at clearing stuff out if it goes where it shouldn't. Purees are not evolutionary normal - we would have all died out as a race if we had to blend everything to a pulp. That's my reasoning anyway. I find myself going all cavewoman about weaning, I just give tough bits of food a bit of a chew first and then pass it over - but maybe that's why DS has just come down with thrush .

Good idea narmada - slightly gross but I'm sure that's what cavewomen did! I really wouldn't have minded at all but did get a bit stressed with MIL watching . He seems to have forgotten how to suck/gum at his food today, kept shoving in huge bits all in one go and making alarming spluttering noises. When my mum and gran were here the other week he astounded them by feeding himself toast and banana sticks.

What made it worse was that he put away a pot of sweet potato and apple mush at teatime quite happily while MIL said things like, "Oh, that's easier for him to eat, isn't it?" (She is a lovely woman BTW, a mum of five - this is all my neurosis about wanting her to think I'm a good mother).

Oh well, better get used to him showing me up

DH's brother told us they let their DD (now 14) cry it out to get her to sleep. Then added, "It took a couple of months for her to get the idea."

PS sorry to hear about the thrush :( - hope it gets better soon.

Bloody hell - a couple of months of crying??? Now, I am no lily-livered soul but really, that takes the biscuit.

They do have a habit of showing you up. We are trying to ditch the nappies with DD at the moment - she's 3 tomorrow and totally ready, but we've been putting it off. She took her knickers off about half way through the day today because it was a faff getting them up and down, and consequently flashed many, many alarmed elderly men in Richmond Park today. My friend's son is also doing potty learning at the moment and today he apparently did a massive wee on the flooor of the aquarium section of the local garden centre in bank-holiday-grey-rinse-rush-hour. Got to love them.

I know what you mean about MIL. I have a sister in law I feel the same about: she is really lovely, I think she's fab, but she always makes me feel so....inadequate. She has three kids, and she said to me once that with the second two babies she could only remember one night for each of them that she'd had any trouble with sleep. My jaw nearly hit the floor.

Sorry about the thrush narmada - hope it goes soon.

Out of interest, what time is the first nap of the day for everyone now? DS has his after being awake for 2 hours and I can get him to resettle so he sleeps an hour and a half if I co-sleep. 2 hour naps sound great though.

Also, slightly random but how do you get them to eat toast? DS will lick of the topping but doesn't get very far with the bread - I'm wondering if it's too crunchy.

We survived a 3 hour journey with DS yesterday evening and then transferred him to the travel cot at my MIL ok. He was pretty unsettled in the night but hoping tonight will be better. I really wish we could take advantage of having a willing babysitter but there's no way we could leave him for an evening. Maybe we'll manage a lunch out.

His thrush seems to have gone, thanks judy's, but he is having another bout of not wanting to eat. Strangely, it doesn't seem to affect his sleep and he is still sleeping through after dreamfeed. I really can't believe it, we have done absolutely everything wrong with him so by rights he should be an appaling sleeper but maybe he'll come true to family form at some point.

DP and I are going out for the evening tonight - my parents are here to babysit.

DS has first nap about 2 hours after getting up. It's a 25 minute job usually, all his naps are (usually 4 a day), although occasionally he will surprise me and sleep for an hour or more.

Glad you survived the car journey, judy's- did he sleep for all the time you were in the car? I wish mine would do that. It's 25 minutes and that's it, for both of them .

Are you suuuuuure you couldn't leave him for an evening out? Go onnnn! your parents can have a crack at resettling him if he wakes up. Mine gamely took on DS of an evening when he was at his worst, but they are exceptionally willing it has to be said.

My MIL would love to babysit and I know it's just as much because she wants us to have a break. She's another one who is lovely but I feel under pressure to show I'm a good mum. Just so we don't break another mumsnet convention by being too nice about the in-laws I will add she was feeding me too many hot cross buns in what I would say was a passive aggressive manner .
Maybe we should go out but I don't even let DH try and settle him anymore - that needs to change too though. In a way it's better if they babysit in the day as they get to see DS lots that way.
During the day DS will only do half an hour in the car but he did 2 hours last night. It's the first time we tried the evening and I did stay in the back with him. Meant the roads were quite quiet and the car wasn't as hot - original plan was to go this morning.
Enjoy your night out narmada and glad your DS is better.

Is good to catch up with all of your news. Have been staying with parents so been off line. Night time sleep much better since DS been in own room at home (en suite at parents )- was desperate measure after hourly wakings and has really helped. Phew. Although like Narmada am not going anywhere yet as not sure it will last. Daytime sleep still highly elusive...

On the brink of weaning so good to hear all about your experiences. Freaked out when with friend's DS once and thought he was choking on food - so must prepare myself that gagging etc is all part of process and not panic!

Count - Great news on buggy sleep! I am accepting that daytime naps (45mins max) just ain't gonna happen unless DS is on the move. Pram...carrier....as long as there is motion! Crying it out - two months! I can't stomach more than 5mins!

Narmada - how was night out?

Judys - Hope you get some time out with DH. We managed a night out with DS looked after by my parents while staying. DS wouldn't go down in cot but went off by being pushed around in pram so pretty smooth. Just wish they were round the corner so could be a regular occurance.

Um, I've got a 7 month old baby and I am fucking shattered.

I've been having a read of some of your posts and wondered if I can join you please? I have tea and pancakes.

aaargh, DP and I came down with diarrhea and vomiting about an hour after we'd gone out. We were staying in a hotel and spent most of the night in the bathroom on a revolving-doors type basis. Meanwhile, at narmada mansions (ahem) grandma was up with DD who vomited from 10.30 till 1 am, and then DS woke up at 5 am. He is now refusing to take more than 1-2 oz of feed at a time so I am presuming he has it too - hard to tell as he vomits copiously anyway. Poor mum, but I am so grateful for not having to see to sick children last night - there's nothing worse when you're ill yourself.

Come on in boilanegg!

Arrrgh, narmada you poor thing!! Are you feeling better?

Good to hear from you Dango - glad things are improving.

DS has slept for 4 hours from bedtime for the last two nights. Of course he's woken every 2-3 hours when we want to sleep, but maybe it's a good sign anyway. I am starting to think that maybe he wakes between sleep cycles because he's not tired enough - I am noticing that we have a better night when he's had a busy day with lots of stimulation, excitement or exercise (eg swimming, or meeting new people). This requires a major shift in mindset for us, as we've spent the majority of his life trying to stop him becoming overtired (ie to prevent screamathons). I'm going to have to try to make sure he has lots of activities planned - just what I feel like doing on 4 hours' broken sleep but will probably help with the PND as well.

Oh Narmada that sounds awful! Hope it has not put your mum off babysitting!

Welcome Boilanegg, I just read your thread. I am one of the people thinking of sleep training next week.

You're welcome to join in the sleep training / night weaning Judys - I would say the more the merrier, but that sounds a bit odd, doesn't it?!

The plan from the AG book (which I've attempted before) is days 1 and 2 - settle in cot at start of night, settle without a feed for any wake ups before 10, then 5 min feeds at all other wake ups and settle back into cot. You're supposed to do it until 7am, but I think I'll do it until anytime after 6, which seems to be DS's rising time at the mo.

Then days 3 and 4, same thing but 3 minute feeds.

Day 5 is no more feeding and she suggests doing CC with 5 min intervals at every wake up.

I did try a bit of CC with DS about a month ago, at bedtime, but he got worse and worse over the course of 4 days (in terms of his crying) so I may settle him and not leave the room. The other thing I may do is a final feed at 10 or 11 - still struggling with the full night weaning, even though I know DS doesn't wake out of hunger.

He has been all snivelly with a cold today though - he always seems to get ill when we plan to make changes!

Need to go and get him ready for bed, restful nights to you all!

Narmada - how are you feeling? Sounds like perversely good timing in that at least you can curl up and be poorly without children around. I feel your pain. Had sickness bug a month ago and DH had to fetch DS and latch him on throughout night and take next day off as couldn't move - was rotten. Hope good health returns to Narmada mansions soon!

Count - It's amazing how the thing you least expect can help- right? I have a friend who discovered swaddling 7 month DSs legs led to major sleep progress after sleep consultant's help had failed to produce results. Hope you get to enjoy planned activities.

RaisingMrC - hope DS feels better soon. Good luck with sleep training.

DS has started sucking thumb properly after much frustrated hand sucking. His dummy fell out today and he started sucking his thumb instead and it actually got him to sleep! I couldn't believe it - right there in his cot! No pram/carrier in sight. Also tonight is the first night in a while we haven't had a battle to get DS to sleep as he was immediately sucking on thumb. Don't want to jinx it but hope this might help with getting rid of dummy.

Welcome boilanegg, I would just like to say, there is hope. I have had one really appaling sleeper (DD, now 3) and one comparatively OK one (DS, now 6 months). With both, sleep training has made a huge, huge difference. I'[ve borrowed from the no-cry sleep solution and in particular the bit at the end of the book that says 'when you've tried all this and nothing works, put them in the cot and comfort them in whatever way is most effective, but try and get them to go to sleep in there. Repeat, repeat, repeat.' Or something similar anyway.

count have to say, our DS turned out to be not tired enough. He is not a very active baby physically (doesn't roll, doesn't kick much, can't push up on arms, won't bounce in door bouncer, butcan sit unsupported bizarrely but this is an isolated skill ). I was expending lots of effort trying to get him to nap for around 3 1/2 hours each day...him sleeping better at evening and night coincided very closely with me instigating cot-only naps and leaving him to it - if he woke after 1/2 an hour, that's it, I have been getting him up. He now has approx 2 hours in total split over 4 short naps. I think with me, I'd just sort of carried on following the rules which seemed to apply when he was much smaller - now he is bigger, I don't think his daytime sleep needs are actually that high . And boy, it's so liberating not to spend all day trying to get him to go to / stay asleep.

Hello,

Just been reading some of the posts on this thread (I have a 7 month erratic sleeper) and wondered if I could join in? Apparently ALL the babies from my mum groups are now sleeping through and I'm a bit bored with the 'I don't know how you do it' comments!

I do actually have to go to bed now as I'll be up several times tonight, although every night I think that maybe this will be the night she sleeps through. Oh god :( :( :(

I'll hopefully won't be so exhausted tomorrow and may even bring wine!

Always room for one more missrose!

DS just slept for nearly five hours - also, DH managed to settle him at bedtime without any crying (well, without the baby crying at least - DH said DS looked so lovely lying there asleep, it made him shed a little tear ). Two things to be quite excited about.

I've started back on the short feeds now - 10 minutes tonight.

Bet he'll be up at 5 now

That sounds great count. Is it ok to admit though that other peoples' good results make me happy and anxious at the same time? I'm sure I'm going to be the last one on here! Hope it continues.
I think maybe we should try different amounts of daytime sleep too. We did go out in the end last night but took DS with us. We went to a friend's house for dinner and decided to try and get DS to sleep in the buggy. I was a bit nervous especially as it meant his bedtime was all wrong and he went to sleep an hour later than usual. But then I started wondering what the,point of rigidly sticking to our routine was when his sleep is crap anyway. In the end I settled him twice at their house then managed to transfer him asleep to the cot when we got back. Our night was no worse than usual - in fact I settled him once without a feed and I got him back to sleep at half five when he woke so we were up at 7.
Hope all the ill babies and parents get better (sorry about the night out Narmada) and welcome missrose and boilanegg.

Don't worry judy - he woke at 5 as I predicted, I resettled him without a feed, then he was up at 6. He always has to get another waking in there somewhere! I'll be here for a while yet ...

Great that you went out in the evening. We still haven't managed that!

We're taking DS to an aquarium today as part of Operation Knacker Him Out. Think he'll like looking at the fish and there are some nice gardens to play in too. I think he's getting close to crawling - yesterday he was pushing up on his arms and sticking his bum in the air! Obviously will be even more exhausting for me having to chase after him but maybe the exertion will help him sleep better ...

Hope that didn't sound too much like sour grapes! The good news gives me hope too and I really am pleased for people too. I just can't imagine things getting better at the moment but I've been really rubbish at trying anything new lately so can't expect things to get better on their own.
Good news about the thumb sucking dangodays. I keep hoping DS will manage it. I just don't think we're going to get anywhere till I can get him in the cot and calm.without sucking a dummy or my finger.

Not at all! I haven't really done anything different apart from get him doing more in the day and even that might be a coincidence. I do actually think things will eventually get better on their own. They have to!

Babies are such funny creatures - it's all trial and error until they can actually tell you what the problem is!

Hope everyone's having a lovely weekend.

Judy - not like sour grapes at all. I have felt anxious too when things are rough and yet everyone around me seems to have babies that just drop off while I am trying to rock screaming DS to no avail. Always seems to be on public transport that he really kicks off - superb timing indeed! We are in a good patch (although just had almighty battle for nap with DS so shouldn't speak too soon. Got to point where over zealous thumb encouragement was a little close to jamming it in mouth! argh!) Is the dummy working at the moment?

We tried a similar night out with family friends the other night (although at quiet restaurant) and ended up wheeling wide eyed DS round and round outside, taking turns in car park until gave up at 10pm and got him up only for him to be in jolly good spirits. Went to bed at midnight! On the one hand I was worrying have we ruined sacred bedtime routine which had finally paid off but also feeling relieved that he was on great form and happy especially after comments that he is fractious/grumpy on other occasions.

Absolutely agree with RtHonCount (loving the name change) that things just get better on own a lot of the time. How was aquarium Count?

It was great actually. He kept reaching out to touch the fish, and of course ended up patting the glass a lot, much to the amusement of other people in there. He seemed fascinated, bless him. He was so tired afterwards that he fell asleep in the buggy within a couple of minutes of being wheeled outside and stayed that way for almost an hour, even sleeping through the bus journey home

I'm feeding him now and struggling to keep him awake. Hoping he's just pleasantly tired rather than overtired ...