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The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

998 replies

Bumperlicious · 14/02/2011 20:01

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

OP posts:
RaisingMrC · 20/04/2011 19:27

Oh Count, really sorry that you have to do the nightweaning again. Things have been so up and down for you with your DS's sleep. I think your GP is right about getting some sleep, and if you can't get DS to sleep better at the moment, then rearranging things with your DH so that you can is the next best thing. You could do some shifts with your DH or have a whole night off even (though not sure if that would lead to engorgement?).

I know what you mean about breastfeeding, for me it was the same in that it was the one thing that worked, and it has always soothed DS when nothing else has. I did give formula after 6 months, just figured that he was going to be eating loads of other stuff and it was just another food stuff.

Keep hold of the fact that your DS has improved, and adjusted to things like nightweaning really well. If he can self settle (which he has done iirc) and doesn't feed at night then the way is paved for him to sleep through - I guess he will get the idea at some stage, though that doesn't help you right now when you are knackered.

Also I'm sure teething does play a big role too, it certainly messed DS up last week. Will post on Monday as planning to start then. You may want a bit of a break from all this sleep training though?

Pugsmum, no advice from me but I wondered if you knew that there is a sleep regression at 4 months? If your baby was early it hits a bit later. Generally makes babies a lot more wakeful, feed more in the night, harder to get to sleep, etc. So it may be that in part?

Hope everyone enjoys the Easter break.

DuelingFanjo · 20/04/2011 19:40

Hi there,

I hope you don't mind me barging in with some questions?

I have a 17 week old DS and he seems to be going through a growth spurt. I am shattered.

However his sleep has never been consistant; he started off sleeping 11pm until 5am which was bliss but as his sleep has started earlier he has developed a pattern where he sleeps about 4 hours then wakes me every 2 hours so last night for example he was asleep by 8pm, woke me at 12.30 am and then every two hours. probably a sleep regression but even before htis he was waking me every 2 hours from 2am.

What I wanted to ask is... I know people who have babies who sleep from 7pm until 7am and I am just amazed that their babies can sleep so long without waking for food. Are they an exception? Is what I am experiencing actually more normal? I am EBF and don't express yet.

narmada · 20/04/2011 19:52

Count, I am like you - all or nothing , and I am also a die-hard-breastfeeding-is-the-best-thing person too at heart. Well, I was with DD1. I fed her till she was 2. However, when I had my kind-of-breakdown when DS was about 5 weeks old, he went on to formula then and there as basically I needed a break from the constant feeding and crying, jiggling and carrying. IT was insane and I was at my complete wits' end. Even given all the issues we've had with him and formula since then, there really was no choice from my mental health standpoint, and looking back now, I still think it was the right thing to do. So if you do give the odd bottle of formula, really, do not worry. If you're already giving things like yoghurt to him then formula is no different at all.

Plus, your milk supply is really, really well established - if at some point in the future you decide to ditch the formula, then you should be able to do so. It can be challenging in some circumstances to re-build milk supply but usually not so difficult - and I say that with some confidence because with DD1 she was bottle fed entirely for the first 8 weeks of her life before I went through the relactation process, and she was back on BF only by 12 weeks. You could always use a sippy cup so he doesn't associate the bottle with comfort - you want him to still see boobs as a main source of both nourishment and comfort I guess. One bottle a day won't make a hill of beans to your supply unless it's precarious already, and I doubt it is with such a regular feeder!

I am so sorry that Andrea didn't work out for you. Did she really have no further suggestions for you Sad?

I am also on antidepressants (currently two types - sertraline and mirtazapine) and they have been nothing short of miraculous every time I've taken them (I've had a few episodes, this is not my first). I hope they do the same for you. You can get some slightly odd effects in the first few weeks of taking them, but this wears off generally.

I really hope they help you feel better, but really, it's not that you're not coping at all, it's just that you're going mad with lack of sleep.

pugsmum oh dear, that sounds very difficult. When you say he is very windy, what are his symptoms? Does he just fart a lot? I ask because I don't think at 5 mos he should be having digestive discomfort that is causing him to be wakeful.

I know what you mean about discomfort and not wanting to do anything - but I wonder if it'd help if I told you about our recent experience with DS? Now, he has been a pretty unsettled little chap and very, very, very difficult to get to sleep as you describe. Never slept for more than 25 mins at a time in the day. He has reflux and cow's milk protein intolerance (both now treated) BUT since doing sleep training I have come to realise that lots of the sleep (or should that be non-sleep!) behaviours I attributed to pain (e.g., waking squirming, kicking and wriggling, rotating his head to one side in a very odd manner Shock) were actually just....habit and his idiosyncratic way of making his preferences known, plain and simple. Only you can judge whether that might be true of your DS, of course.

Bumperlicioso · 20/04/2011 19:57

'What I wanted to ask is... I know people who have babies who sleep from 7pm until 7am and I am just amazed that their babies can sleep so long without waking for food. Are they an exception? Is what I am experiencing actually more normal? I am EBF and don't express yet.'

I think you are in the wrong place to ask that question Grin we're all wondering the same thing. My dd2 actually slept 12-7 for a month when she was 2 months old! Never again though. Erracticness is the problem we have. She only started sleeping in the evenings about 3 weeks ago. And last night she woke every hour between 8 and 3am. Night off tonight though!

I don't suffer too badly with engorgement on my 'nights off' a bit leaky perhaps. I pump as soon as I get up.

Bumperlicioso · 20/04/2011 20:00

Wow narmada, your bfing experience with dd was hardcore!

JudysDreamHorse · 20/04/2011 20:45

Thought I'd put my oar in about the formula.... count I can really relate to what you are saying as I too feel that BF is the one area that has gone well with DS. I've been really lucky that it's felt quite easy and it's been important to me that it went well when everything else was so crap (lots of crying during the day a few months ago as well as the rubbish sleeping).

Last week I bought a couple of cartons as I started to think I was being a bit silly about it because there's a chance it may make DS sleep better and it's ridiculous to not give it a go just so I can say I EBF for x months. I still haven't given it to him at night though as I still feel funny about it. I did give him some in a panic last week though when I first realised he had thrush. He hadn't been feeding well on the boob so I tried to express and only got about 40ml which he guzzled down. I knew I couldn't get much more expressing so opened the carton and gave him that (he happily had about another 60ml). To be honest I think I over reacted (he fed fine the rest of the day) but it made me realise that if I needed to I would give DS formula in a heartbeat and not feel bad about it. I'm planning to try the formula after Easter to see how it goes. I do know there's an emotional barrier to doing it though as even though I've already given it to him once I still feel a bit odd about the idea even though I know I'm not being rational.
Pugsmum - have you thought about taking your DS to a cranial osteopath? It can be expensive but I think in some places there are charities that offer it for a nominal fee. If you search on here you might find some info. Lots of sympathy from me too.

narmada · 20/04/2011 20:51

PS count as well as teething, don't forget about separation anxiety - DS is going through it really badly at the moment (he's just turned 6 mos) and it can play havoc with their sleep. When it's worn off a bit he may just naturally improve on his own without you doing anything at all.

Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that your DS's poor sleep is anything to do with you or you feeling low. I have lost count of the number of people who've said 'oh, well, now you're feeling better he's settled down more'. Complete crap - he was unsettled from the word go but I was fine, perfectly peachy, until it got too much for me around 5 weeks.

JudysDreamHorse · 20/04/2011 21:08

Um....don't know if it came across count but I think the formula to give you a break plan is a good one. Just meant that I know I can emphathise about how it can be difficult as I'm kind of going through the same thing.
Update from us that DS had another "good" night on Monday (2hours in the evening and another 3 hour stretch in the night). Back to crap last night but I think we may have some teething issues as well. I'm also struggling to jiggle him in the cot because my back is killing me at the moment. Think I need to stop carrying him in the carseat and I've dusted off the pilates dvd I bought 4 months ago.

CountHotCrossBapula · 20/04/2011 21:36

See, that's why I love this thread. Where else on MN can you have such a rational and supportive discussion about formula? Grin

Thank you all for your posts and being so honest and open about your experiences.

narmada yy to separation anxiety - DS is sooooo clingy at the moment during the day and cries when I leave the room, even if it's just for a few seconds. He wants to be held and engaged with pretty much all the time ... it's quite sweet but a bit wearing!

CountHotCrossBapula · 20/04/2011 21:39

Dueling IME a baby going 7-7 at 17 weeks is the exception, not the norm. In my NCT group there are 8 babies ranging from 7-9 months and AFAIK only two or three are going 7-7.

JudysDreamHorse · 20/04/2011 21:49

Dueling in my NCT group of 8 I don't know if there were any who went 7 to 7 at 17 weeks. If any of them did, it was with a dream feed. Sorry you're having a rubbish time - hope it passes.

narmada · 21/04/2011 09:31

duelling definitely not the norm. My friend's baby did sleep through, and has continued to do so, but she had a bottle of formula at 7 pm so not EBF strictly.

count I seem to remember the separation anxiety lessens after a few weeks. It is quite sweet. DS has separation anxiety from me, my DP and his sister, but no-one else. Which I find very endearing. With DD, she was only bothered if I left her - couldn't have cared less if it was DP waking out of the room. I attribute this to the fact that DP has been far more involved in DS's care than he ever was in DD's - he was working a lot more when we had her.

DuelingFanjo · 21/04/2011 09:52

thank you for the responses, I read through a bit of the thfread and can see I am definitely not alone which makes me feel more normal Smile

I am also a die-hard breastfeeder and not likely to try formula but not knocking anyone who does. I am amazed that one bottle of formula would make a baby sleep all night though!

Lastnight I got DS down for around 9 and he only woke me at 1am and 3am which is a slight improvement.

narmada · 21/04/2011 09:57

No I don't think it did - she was always a good sleeper even without the formula. They're born for the most part, good sleepers. I do complain a lot about DS but it was apparent right from him being about a week old we were going to have less trouble on the sleep front with him than we did with his big sister. She was a nightmare!

Cosmosis · 21/04/2011 13:07

I second every one else, if the odd bottle of formula is giong to give yourself some rest then go for it - your health and mental wellbeing is just as important as the babys afterall.

duelling I agree with everyone else, that is the exception, out of our NCT group, none of them are sleeping through. A couple of them have done now and then, but none on a regular basis.

We had a weird night last night. DS was just really restless, kept thrashing about for some reason. God knows what he was dreaming about! He didn't do too badly on the wakeups though.

I am mostly realising how much hard work being back at work is going to be. The time at home just seems like solid work. I realised last night as I was putting him to bed that when I am back full time (from June) I am only going to be doing the shit part of parenting - the getting to bed and night wakings. The CM will get all the fun bits.

narmada · 21/04/2011 14:39

cosmosis poor you :( but you'll get the fun bits at the weekend, don't forget that.

CountHotCrossBapula · 21/04/2011 15:07

cosmosis I don't know how you're doing it. You must be knackered! Are you still going to bf at bedtime? I always imagine doing that with DS when I'm back at work as a way of 'reconnecting', though not sure my supply will cope (doubt will have time to express).

Discovery of the week: DS will sleep in a stationary buggy! We have a new one which is slightly raised (as opposed to our lie-flat pram) so maybe he's more comfy, or maybe it coincides with him napping better generally. So I can park him under a tree and watch him snooze cutely while I relax on a park bench. No madly pushing him round for hours to keep him asleep, like Sisyphus pushing boulders up hills or whatever it was

Cosmosis · 21/04/2011 16:32

I don?t think you need to worry about supply when you?re this far in, it just adjusts and you can quite happily feed when you?re with them and not when you?re not. Currently I am expressing at work but he refuses milk at the CM?s so not really sure how much longer I?ll carry that on ? it?s just filling my freezer just now (although am looking into donating it). At the moment I am bf at 6 when we get in, at bedtime (around 7.15), adhoc in the night (generally twice atm) and in the morning.

The first few days back at work my boobs were pretty explody, but even now I am noticing I hardly get engorged any more, so it doesn?t take long for supply to adjust.

I must admit the hour between 6 and 7 is the best of the day :)

Cosmosis · 21/04/2011 16:32

meant to add, yay for new discovery!!!

CountHotCrossBapula · 21/04/2011 17:20

PMSL at explody boobs! Grin

Pidgin · 22/04/2011 00:39

Explody is my new favourite word.

Glad to hear about the pram thing Count. It is weird how they are capable of making these (sometimes sudden and seemingly inexplicable) developments.

DS' sleep is just plain weird at the mo - basically still crap bit every now and then he pulls a good night out of the bag, to keep me guessing...

Pidgin · 22/04/2011 00:40

crap but, sorry

That looks odd written down!

CountHotCrossBapula · 22/04/2011 09:25

Oh Pidgin, they do like to keep us on our toes! :)

RaisingMrC · 22/04/2011 12:05

Hi Pidgin - you mentioned you were going to do some sleep training post Easter - what's your plan? Am looking to garner some support through my own sleep training (nightweaning) next week. Let us know what you're planning!

Cosmosis · 22/04/2011 12:37

he slept from 10 - 2 and then till about 5 and then a lie in till 7.30!

I feel like a different woman!

Also seems to have sorted naps, like some others have said. Suddnely 2 hour morning nap is normal.

Getting him to bed last night was a trauma though, it involved a lot of screaming. I think he was overtired.