The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

I am BF but seem to have escaped so far (though felt a little itchy there this afternoon but may be my imagination). The gp prescribed me some gel to put on just in case. I'm not sure why she didn't give DS the same thing - he's got a solution which I'm meant to get him to hold in his mouth for as long as possible. Not sure how I'm meant to achieve that as he just gulps it down - maybe just really slowly dropping it in. The gp warned me it tastes horrible but DS seems quite happy to slurp it down.

Definitely not sleeping through here either. DS was up for two hours in the middle of the night last night. I ended up having to feed him to sleep at 5am - he just wouldn't settle any other way. And he's already been up twice tonight.

Have sort of given up on him sleeping better, TBH. Nothing I do seems to make much difference. Clearly this is just how he is. Only have a couple of calls left with Andrea - had been hoping he'd be sleeping much better by now but he's still waking every 1-3 hours.

judy sorry to hear about the thrush - my friend and her DS had that - sounds awful. Hope it clears up soon.

Cosmosis yay - glad it worked!

Do you know about they hygiene rules you need to follow to kill it as well Judy? (don?t want to patronise if you do!)

Definitely no sleeping through here. DS was up from 1-3, nothing would get him back to sleep. He's now refusing his nap, and I'm feeding him for the zillionth time. I'm sure all the milk was drained long ago.

There's a lot going on for DS teething wise, and the sleep regression. This behaviour isn't normal for him. He does wake a lot but usually goes back down relatively easily.

Quite anxious about going to the ILs with DS sleeping so badly. FIL in the past helpfully said it was my fault as I rushed to him whenever he cried .

Count - how are you feeling? Your post sounds resigned, but wondered if that is how you're feeling. What does Andrea say about the frequent wakings. I imagine he's probably hungry at 5 - still think Andrea is a bit harsh with the full night weaning!

Judys - hope your DS gets better soon, poor thing!

Raising that's weird that your DS was up for two hours as well. We've had quite a few nights like that lately.

He could have been hungry at 5 I suppose, but not at 3 (when he woke up) because he'd been fed at 1! (Our new strategy is to try not to feed before midnight if poss, and then not again until 6.) I gave him a little feed at around 4 to calm him, but he still wouldn't settle, so I had to actually feed him to sleep, which I haven't done for ages and is definitely 'against the rules'. Also, I know he can go for longish periods without milk quite happily now: last night, for instance, he lasted from 10:30 to 5:30, with a resettle at 3, no problem at all (though clearly that demonstrates that I failed miserably at not feeding before midnight then not until 6!).

I am resigned because I have always known in my heart of hearts that DS has a sleep issue, not a feeding issue. What is different since the night weaning is that he will happily settle back to sleep in the cot without a feed most of the time, whereas he would insist on being fed before. But he still wakes just as often, and I know that is because he can't/won't go to sleep without me both literally and figuratively holding my hand, and until he can, he will still shout for me to come and help him back to sleep several times a night. And I also know that the only way to get him to fall asleep unassisted will be to let him cry himself to sleep, and I'm just not sure I can do that. So although we've made a lot of progress - we used to rock him to sleep for hours every night - I'm pretty sure we won't sort the night wakings without leaving him to cry.

Got a call with Andrea later, so will let you know what she says.

I'm pretty clueless Cos so would love any info. Never had thrush before myself.

holding his hand

here you go Judy

Thanks Cos. I did have an inkling that I needed to sterilise things but wasn't sure if it was completely necessary. You don't happen to know what you should do with soft toys that say sponge clean? Think we're going to have to limit what DS has access to until this is over. Trouble is he puts anything that stays still enough into his mouth at the moment - he tried to latch onto my friend's DS's head the other day!

I personally shove anything that looks like it won't disintegrate in the washer, judy's but then I am known for my reckless abandon! I think the main thing is to thoroughly boil anything like dummies, bottles, and breastpump parts (not the tubing though - I don't think it would survive!).

count I feel your pain about the hand-holding. DS is the same, although his particular vice is movement - can get him to sleep in cot but only if I'm jiggling his sleeping bag up and down. Don't be completely despondent - hard I know. 5-6 months is when separation anxiety kicks in big time and when this eases off a little your DS may be more amenable to going to sleep without you right next to him. It's probably quite a difficult age to sleep-train them, I reckon, based solely on my own limited experience. Has he got a transitional object - e.g., soft fluffy comforter? If you hold it next to him while you're getting him off to sleep he might eventually come to accept it as a substitute for your presence [hopefulemoticon]. My DD still has hers at nearly 3 - bits of my old cut up dressing gown.

I know what you mean about crying - I was hardcore with DD and I'm afraid she did yell some, but with DS I just know he is SO persistent that he could outlast me. Even with the settle-in-cot method he is still grumbling when I know he is actually very deeply asleep!

Not quite sure why there's so many !!! in my last post. feeling a bit de-mob happy as just been to view a house which might just fit the bill. I can't imagine moving with 2 under 3 but it's got to be done. It better not bugger up their sleep any further, is all I can say.

That's good about the house narmada.

Sorry sleep isn't much better for anyone.

We are pox free, but dd2 has conjunctivitis and this cough thing. I think what's happening is she is getting cattarh in the back of her throat which she can't swallow. This is making her choke then bring up all her milk. Before the coughing up she gets all gaggy and can't breathe momentarily. Not sure what is causing it. She doesn't seem snotty or anything.

Mixed night last night. Slept in the evening (yay! She usually needs settling at least once though). I tried going to bed at 10, she woke up and didn't settle till 12. She then slept till 6, but despite being tired refused to feed to sleep and go back down. I chuck her back in the hammock and ignored her. She cooed and chatted for a bit then cried on and off but unusually I managed to ignore it as dh (who didn't have to leave for work till 10) had got her up, along with dd1, taken dd1 to nursery with dd2 and at 9.20 I woke up and he was feeding her toast downstairs and clearing up last nights mess in the kitchen! He's a good man :)

Count, I'm sorry things aren't better. Have you tried posting a specific thread on here?

Hope the thrush goes quickly judy.

bumper, you know, the coughing and gagging thing sounds a lot like my DS with his reflux. But if it's a new thing it's probably not that. Don't suppose you've recently introduced cow's milk or formula??

I did think about reflux but it's a new thing. No formula and doesn't coincide with giving her cow's milk. The first time two or three weeks ago it was definitely a proper cough causing it. Not sure this time as she isn't coughing much, but she keeps doing it just as she is bloody drifting off!

narmada yes, I've introduced a little teddy comforter thing since we stopped swaddling last week, after reading about your cut-up dressing gown - I've also been stuffing the poor bear down my top during the day to try and make him smell Mummy-like! So far DS sort of sucks at it and occasionally rubs it across his cheek - sometimes he drapes it alarmingly over his face - but it doesn't seem to quite settle him yet, though it's early days yet. It does give him something to do with one of his hands: clutching it seems to stop him waving his little arms around so much ...

bumper funnily enough I was reading another thread today where someone was having trouble withdrawing from their baby at bedtime and having similar issues with hand-holding etc. They ended up doing CC, but not until 10 months. TBH I'm not sure what to do next - Andrea's advice is to let him cry while pottering about in his room like Mary Poppins and reassuring him periodically, but not sure I can face even that ... he's just so bloody persistent!

Oh bumper what a pain. It can take them ages and ages to get over coughs, can't it? I remember DD having one for what seemed like months. Have you tried the wet-towel-over-the-radiator trick to humidify the room a bit?

count sorry, laughing a bit at visions of you with a teddy stuffed down your top. Something to tell him when he's older and he brings his first girlfriend home. Hope it works. I'm sure he'll get the hang of it soon. But oh, I do so know what you mean about the persistence. I just can't believe some babies give in after.....oooh, half an hour! We must breed them with staying power. Mind you, I can be like a dog with a bone when I want something, so I suppose it's actually my fault!

Our house is too hot to have the radiators on. I did buy a humidifier but the wall started to get damp around the window.

Count, dh and I have found the opposite. If dd can see us it makes her more distressed. If we have to settle her (as dh is doing now) we put White noise on and sort of hide ourselves below the mattress with our hand out patting her. God, the things we do...

I would just like to report..... DP and I are having our 3rd quiet consecutive evening in a row. No baby on lap. No 3-year-old demands for teddy, comforter, nightlight etc. God, it's nice. Tomorrow however DS finishes his course of antibiotics and so I am trying enjoy it while it lasts, because last time his antibiotics were up, he promptly stopped drinking milk and slept appalingly. Please don't let it be like that this time [fingerscrossedemoticon].

bumper oh bum. Hope the cough goes soon. I think you all deserve some good health in your house for a solid few months. Thank god it's nearly summer.

The things we do indeed - I had to laugh to myself when I was madly agitating DS in his sleeping bag this evening to send him off. I have to kind of grab the material and partially lift him off the bed. And put him down. And pick him up.

I was reading the other day about something called sensory processing disorder and to be honest a lot of the things really chimed with me about both my kids - e.g., really, really needing movement to go to sleep, craving constant stimulation by touching, rubbing, crunching things, being extremely sensitive to tastes, textures, labels in clothes etc etc etc. Apparently kids who display these clusters of traits are also those who have more problems getting to sleep and staying asleep. I suspect in our parents' days such kids would just have been referred to affectionately as fussy little blighers, bless em!

Just realised that could be quite insulting to parents with kids with sensory issues - SPD is clearly not just a bit of fussiness for some kids, but a real condition with huge attendant problems....I do still think though that both my two kids have/ had problems tuning the world out and that's partly why they've both been quite poor sleepers...

That's funny you should say that as my dd1 constantly puts stuff in her mouth even at 3, she is very fussy and will spit veg out if I conceal it in a spoonful of food, and last night she wore her pyjama top inside out because the label was bothering her. That said she wasn't a bad a sleeper as dd2 but then she had the dummy to rely on till 2.5, and she often talks in her sleep or falls out of bed so is quite a restless sleeper.

Sick of her putting things in her mouth constantly I found her a taggie from when she was a baby which now (at 3) has become a comforter at night, with only one particular tag that goes in her mouth (it's has a slightly radioactive green tinge around the bottom - ewww!).

Hope you are enjoying your evening Narmada. I find it hard actually as I feel I should make the most of the time but am so knackered end up just slouching in front of the tv or mumsnet.

I remember posting about it on here and someone suggested it was sensory seeking behaviour.

Thanks for the advice narmada. I can be too much of a rule follower sometimes - I was contemplating putting some soft toys in the steam steriliser to see what happens.
Bumper the image of you hiding behind a mattress has made my evening. Glad some of you are having peaceful evenings. Mine hasn't been too bad - I'm trying the most gentle thing I can on DS which is pre-empting his hourly waking by patting him through them. I was really hoping I could get DS to do a good evening stretch by Easter so my MIL could babysit when we visit. Don't think there is much chance of that but it's something to aim for. DH has a friend who got their baby to sleep in her Moses basket but sitting up all night with a hand on her. The baby was much younger though and it took 3 weeks - she took shifts with her DH . Sometimes wonder if it would be worth a go as it would be very no cry.

Urgh - DS has been up every 1-2 hours. Four weeks of sleep training and I still have to get up four times a night to go and hold his sodding hand. Just shoot me now ...

Hi all, long time no post from me, things not much different here but marginally better as a) DS has done the occasional longer stint at night (including once a four-hour stretch!) and b) I have given up trying to resettle him in cot at night and just bring him in with me. These days are numbered though - we are going to start sleep training the week after Easter.

Count I've done the teddy down the top thing too and it seems to have helped a bit - DS now has two teddy and one cloth comforter so his cot is getting a bit crowded but he does seem to use them to go to sleep for naps. I am going to try your activities idea too, thanks for the tip! Hope the sleep gets better.

I like the idea of pottering like Mary P but don't you need a proper nursery to do it in?! DS's room is so small I couldn't potter very far before hitting a wall...