The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Yes, rocking in cot not so bad. Hoping to progress to just holding a hand on him in his cot, then gradual retreat. He can really yell, though - louder than his sis ever did so I don't think just leaving him in his cot and comforting him is going to work with him.

I have also taken his dummy away, as he's not dextrous enough to replace it himself yet. Poor wee thing. But had to be done, as his big sis is finishing nursery in a few weeks and he needs to be able to sleep in his cot before then otherwise he will have eyebags as big as samsonites.

I ditched the dummy a while ago too, it just wasn't really helping, just gave us a load of different issues.

Yes, I think it's OK once they can get the dummy back into their mouths and find it in a dark cot but otherwise, more probs than they solve.

progress report: DS has been asleep for nearly an hour in his cot. This is the first time this has happened in 4 months.

Hi ladies,
I am new here, I have a 3week old baby boy and he just won't sleep :( I do not know who to talk to and have noticed that you all have gone are are still going through similar problems..
My lil boy not only feeds for hours (last week I spent 12 hours breastfeeding him on and off), then dozes off for like 30 mins and then he is up and hungry again..He also won't sleep anywhere else (not in his moses basket, not in the pram, not in the cot, maybe on the sofa or on the bed next to me, when lucky!) but on me, so I am absolutelly exhausted and upset as I want my baby to be healthy and happy, not hungry and tired..Any advice please? Thank you and good luck to you all with your little ones

Ah Lennie I think at 3 weeks that is totally normal, I know DS would only sleep on me for a long time. They've only just come out remember and it's all a big shock to the system. As for the constant feeding, that's normal too, and good for establishing your supply (assuming no latch issues etc?). Have you tried feeding lying down? That may well help you get a bit more rest.

Hi Cosmosis,
Thank you for your advice... Well, latching is a bit of a problem, as I am quite ,,well equipped'' so I feel like trying to pop my big boobie into my lil man's tiny mouth, so I am a bit worried about feeding lying down, don't want to choke my angel to death :D, but will have a go..I have to feed in the ,rugby position' as latching otherwise is too painful and we just can't seem to get it right..However, I won't worry then, since you say it's normal, and to be honest, I love the feeling of my darling sleeping on my chest, he is just so sweet...

Ahh, Lennie - those first weeks are so tough, but as you say, try to enjoy the cuddles. My DS only wanted to sleep on me for ages and I moaned about it incessantly was quite worried about it at the time. Then suddenly (around 10-12 weeks I think) he stopped wanting to sleep on me and now I sort of miss it. Congratulations and enjoy your little one :)

narmada that is amazing, well done!

DS has been v sleepy today. Making up for the last few nights I reckon. He had an hour this morning and two hours this lunchtime (DH woke him up in the end ). We took him swimming for the first time today and he was so shattered he fell asleep in the car (not unusual for 'normal' babies but it is for him) and he stayed asleep for a good 10 minutes after the car stopped moving

Just hope it bodes well for tonight ... not sure can handle another shit one.

Cosmosis hope your DS is feeling better.

Oh well it's all gone totally tits up at bedtime. Screaming for an hour, won't even calm down when being held.

How come some people breed placid babies who just conk out at night, and others like me have ones that will fight for hours and hours and hours??

DP and I have had one evening together in 6 months, and it has to change otherwise we will end up getting divorced and I will go completely mad. Still, I am sat by his cot, sweating. It's like torture. Probably for DS too.

Lennie, have you got a local bf support group that can help? I had a latch problem when my DD was young (she's now 10 months this week) I didn't realise I had a latch problem until someone came out to me (referred by hv and another friend). The peer supporter explained the reason why she was wanting to feed so regularly (in my case not necessarily yours) was that she wasn't latching properly and was wearing herself out drinking, would fall asleep on the breast and be awake after about 15 mins wanting to go back on, she wasn't on long enough to get enough calories in her! The fact that my nipples were in shreds should have been a giveaway as well.
Narmada, I have to keep telling myself it's because DD is very bright that she doesn't sleep it's the only way I can keep going. Although my Mum said a good one to me on the phone earlier. "It would be worse if you were getting up every two hours because she was seriously ill." Put it all into perspective.

sorry lennie, welcome, panic over here. Congratulations on your new wee man. I think it wouldn't hurt to nip along to some sort of breastfeeding support group (in many areas there's a cafe-type thing every week) to see whether there's a latch or milk transfer issue going on. Has your DS been checked by someone like a lactation consultant or BF counsellor for tongue tie? That can cause poor latch and inefficient milk transfer. I think if he is not doing any long stretches of sleep - e.g., 2-3 hours - at all in a 24 hour period it may just be the case that he's not getting milk efficiently. I have really big boobs and I know how challenging it can be to feed a tiny newborn with those!

The news from our house....DS finally went to sleep, but god it was painful. You're right newbielisa about how there are much worse things that could be happening. It all seems so all-consuming at the time but perspective is definitely a good thing.There was a short period when DS was suspected of having a very very nasty disease and thankfully this has now been ruled out - and for that alone I should be extremely grateful. Which I am. Just need reminding sometimes.

Re them being bright, I am sure it's true. One of the brightest -nay, precocious - little buttons I know slept absolutely appalingly as an infant, according to his mum, and I believe her - she's not one for exaggeration. By the age of 5 he was writing school projects about nuclear decomissioning.

Narmade - christ let's not go too far with the bright thing, at the rate my brain cells are dying due to sleep depravation I'll barely be able to spell nuclear let alone help/supervise a school project about it! I'd settle for an average one that sleeps more than 2 hours in one go ha ha.

Good luck with your sleep training narmada. How did you manage to take away the dummy? I tried tonight to get DS to settle without his and I was very nearly back gprs the hysterics crying bad old days. I still don't understand why he won't sleep. It's driving me mad. He does have a cold at the moment so it was a bad day to try. He woke at 5am today crying and only stopped when I let him sleep in my arms. I swapped with DH after an hour so I could get a bit more sleep - hope we don't have a repeat tonight.
Hope you're feeling better cos - your posts yesterday made me teary as I could recognise how I felt in them. I get angry and frustrated about it as well. It must be really tough being back at work. Hope your DS gets better quickly.
DS has just woken for the 3rd time so he's in bed with me now. I feel I'm going backwards - I already fed him at half nine. I'm giving up earlier and earlier in the evening as nothing makes a difference. Is anyone else fantasies about getting their revenge when our DC are sleepy teenagers?
Sorry last night wasn't as good count. Hope your DS gets better soon too.

Hello, have been off this thread for a while and haven't caught up with all the posts, but just trying to see if someone has found a sleep training technique that works. My 5mo goes off to sleep quite easily at the start of the night in his cot with me singing to him but wakes around midnight then after that it's chaos, tonight he woke at 2 and has been awake on and off for the last hour and a half. I have resorted to rocking and feeding him back to sleep but even that's not really working. Am utterly shattered. Daytime naps very hit and miss too as I am too tired to establish a proper routine (and have ds1 to look after too )

if anyone can direct me to some good advice it would be much appreciated as this is really getting me down

fromheretomaternity No advice here I am afraid but I feel your pain re daytime naps. I am still feeding DS at night 1-3 times and although he doesn't feed to sleep once he is satiated he will go back off, but not sure there is an end in sight to night feeds unless I take action Are you generally not feeding DS in the night?

Narmada I ask myself the same question about having a placid baby who just drops off...I am impressed by your daytime nap progress. That's fantastic.

Since DS was sick with bug I have had some perspective and trying not to stress about sleep, grateful that he is better - but I worry about the mass of sleep cues/effort that go before naps and bedtime. I find I get so upset when I try to get DS to nap in cot when after an hour he is still upset. I end up either giving up on nap or frantically getting ready to dash out of door and take DS for last resort walk in pram/carrier - all the while he is still screaming.Hats off to those of you sticking to sleep training. I know I will have to develop a stronger will.

When have people stopped night feeds? DS will be 5 months in a couple of weeks. My health visitor has advised me that I should expect getting up to feed a couple of times a night up until 6 months and weaning.

newbielisa haahahaha! That is exactly what I used to say about DD when everyone said 'oh, she's just bright'. I really, really wanted an 'average' one who just slept.

judysdreamhorse re the dummy, I rocked DS for a bit - vigorously - and then put him down in his cot. Picked him up and repeated until he was nearly off, repeat repeat repeat, until he finally got so tired he went to sleep in his cot. I have to say though he never was completely wedded to his dummy - he could go to sleep without it in the pram and never asked for it during the night, so that is possibly a factor.

Well, I am pleased to report that DH and I had an evening last night. DS finally went off around 8, stayed asleep, we woke him up for a dreamfeed, back down, didn't wake up until 7.30. He was really, really tired yesterday so that probably helped. Also, he screamed at bedtime so much I think he wore himself right out.

He's just gone down for his first nap - no doubt another 25 minute wonder but I am happy because he went to sleep in his cot with no crying, just a bit of moaning.

Please, please, please DS, keep it up!

Well I think some miracle has occurred. He woke at 10.15 and settled again really quickly when I just put my hand on his chest. He then did the same thing a couple more times in the night. And I had to wake him at 7, rather than him being wide awake from 6. I did feed him a couple of times in the night (I think 12 and 3), but he didn?t want any breakfast, so I don?t think I should have done. He still woke about every 2 hours, but that?s better than some when he has woken every hour or less.

It may not continue but at least I know it can be done and I got a lot more sleep than normal!

His ear isn?t leaking any more and he has no temp, so I think is well again.

Dangodays, I have read that you should stop night feeds when they are not interested in milk first thing. That makes sense to me. Or there is the ?core hours? idea, which is if one night they go say 5 hours without a feed, you should never feed them again within that time. But that doesn?t allow for any growth spurts so I don?t know about that one.

narmada yay for an evening!!!!

Great news Narmada and Cosmosis that things are improving. Count - how was last night?

After things being on a bit of an even keel for a while, things are not going too well at the moment. Having a real difficulty getting DS to nap enough (he seems to need LOADS of daytime sleep) and then that has an effect on bedtime, cue lots of crying. Still shush patting him in the cot but it gets me down constantly fighting him to get him to sleep. I'm wondering (hoping) that this may be the 8/9 month sleep regression - then at least there is an explanation for it!

He has been teething quite badly recently too, and last night was awake crying for over an hour. The only thing that worked was bringing him into bed with us (where he basically sleeps latched on!) so Judys I know where you're coming from in terms of feeling like you're going backwards.

Dango I haven't stopped night feeding and some nights feed a ridiculous amount. But it sounds like your DS is hungry for those feeds - maybe when you start weaning and he starts taking more sustenance in the day, you will see the feeds naturally decrease? I'm planning on using the method Count has been using to stop night feeds (I've had a few abortive attempts, totally my issue just find it really hard to withold the boob, it seems to be the only thing that works a lot of the time). Planning to try again on the weekend of the royal wedding, as DP will be around.

narmada and Cosmosis - nice one! Sounds like things are getting better.

Raising - last night was OK actually. Wasn't expecting much as DS was v whingey at bedtime and took ages to settle. But he slept 7:30-10:30 - shushed him back to sleep (v easily) then he woke at 11:30 and I fed him then because I wanted to go to bed (Andrea had suggested I try not to feed before midnight to encourage DS to do a longer stretch in the evening - ie feed for the first waking after 12 then nothing until morning). Put him back down at 12 - think he woke around 2:40 - shushed back to sleep, then same again at about 3 (clearly hadn't worked the first time) then he woke at 6. So pretty good. Loving how easy it is to get him back to sleep these days but kind of wish I didn't have to get out of bed every two hours and trot down the corridor just to hold his hand and go "shh" for 30 seconds. C'mon DS, can't you do that yourself now? Or at least let Daddy do it instead of insisting on Mummy?

He's gone off like a top this evening. My new thing is to knacker him out during the day with lots of fun activities. Today I went to my friend's house and we did this DIY baby sensory thing where we sang songs and gave them random stuff to play with (wooden spoons, scarves, containers with dried pasta in them to rattle). DS really got into it and was knackered afterwards. I've noticed he sleeps better these days when he's had a bit of excitement (eg going up to town or to swimming) - v different to how he used to be - he'd get overtired at the slightest thing so I tried to keep him calm most of the time.

Also had first session of CBT today for PND. Was quite good and has made me feel a bit better about everything.

Hope you all have good nights.

Sounds good narmada and cos.
I've been trying to do the pantley pull off with the dummy this evening but it's a bit of a lost cause I fear - the dummy is a poor second to my tasty fingers so the minute they go anywhere near his mouth he tries to get those instead. Oh well, must persevere.
On a positive note DS slept for a 4 hour stretch last night which is amazing!! Either that or I fed him without waking up which seems more of a possibility. Am tempted to give him sweet potato and cheese for dinner every night this week to see if it continues. I bought some cartons of formula today and while I know it probably won't make a difference I thought I might as well try it. Will see if he can manage a repeat performance first though.
Raising sorry things are hard going. Hope things get better. It's hellish having to battle every evening.

Glad your DS slept for 4 hours -that's a result, judy'sdreamhorse.

count glad the CBT was good - I really hope it helps. Activities, hmm, maybe I should give those a try with DS.

Today was good in parts and awful in parts - DS took 4 cot naps (good), settled without the dummy but lots of patting and rocking in cot from me (good in parts) but only napped for 25 minutes a time (bad) and was very overtired by bedtime. He's been grumbling interspersed with wailing for the last hour and a half.DS is currently in there trying to get him to sleep not on one of us. I swear, I breed the most persistent babies known to man. It's all coming back to me now with DD1 - and how we used to have to rock her off to sleep for months (and boy was she heavy, 98th %ile) of an evening, even though she'd learned to self-settle for naps months before.

God, I will be so glad when he a) sleeps for longer than 25 minutes in the day b) doesn't get bags under his eyes because he's so overtired and c) goes to bed reliably in the evening. I can't be doing this hour and a half getting-him-to-sleep battle every evening, especially when there are so many tears. And that's without leaving him to cry!

I hope you find the CBT useful count I have had it for a previous bout of depression and found it really helpful.

Narmada, one thing I read to increase nap time was to go in 5mins before they would normally wake up and put your hand on their chest, or rock or pat or whatever you do to get them to sleep and it gets them off before they wake up again - it might be worth a try?

It does make me realise I am lucky though, DS may wake up alot but he does get to sleep really quickly.

Are all your babies suddenly sleeping through so you don't have anything to post now?

I have success to report, I tried count's suggestion of settling him in his bed tonight and it worked! He had his feed, and was totally happy so I thought I'd put him in his bed and see. He was totally calm throughout, no tears at all. It took about 15 minutes to get to sleep. I started off patting his chest, then when he started getting heavy eyes I stroked his cheek.

He's back on anti-bs though for his ear :(

Nope, haven't caught up in a few days so not sure how things are few you all.

DD2 keeps coughing up her milk which is fun.

Poor DS Cosmosis.

Count, good to hear the CBT was helpful.

Will catch up properly soon so sorry for missing everyone's updates. Have a good night everyone :)

Not sleeping through here - just thought you all might be bored with me posting the same thing over and over.... Sadly got something new to post tonight - I realised DS has thrush in his mouth today. Think it's sore for him to feed and he's lost his voice too - he has the most pathetic cry at the moment . Don't think I'll be trying anything new for a while.
Glad the settling in the cot worked cos. I cross posted with you the other day - I'm planning to steal your DIY baby sensory plan! Hope things are going ok too.

Oh poor DS with the thrus judy. I can't remember if you are bf or not, are you likely to have it too?

Oh dear re coughingn up milk bumper :( are you a pox free house now though?